Mixing old school (hands on) style

[Benmrx]

Just curious how many of you out there still do mixes on non-automated consoles, and get other people involved to help out with fader moves, panning, effects, etc.

I just finished the record I've been recording/mixing/producing for the past 4 months (getting shipped to Sterling for mastering today!) and I've got to say that doing "manual mixing" REALLY brought some serious vibe to final mixes. Certain things being too loud, or not loud enough, etc. added the perfect amount of "art" to the record.

And a couple of these songs were some seriously dense mixes. Drums, bass, guitars (lots of 'em), horns, lots of vocal harmonies, overdubbed drums, overdubbed toms, 2 completely different sounding pianos, cello, wurlitzer....that was one song, and wasn't even the biggest out of the bunch.

It did get somewhat frustrating from time to time (when one guy forgot/****ed up his move.......usually me.), but when it worked..........damn it worked good. For a couple songs, the whole band (5 guys), all crowded around a 32 channel Trident 80B to help out, although it was one guys job to just crank the room size on the reverb going into the bridge so he was over at the rack. Damn that was fun.

[jslstrat]

Hi,
Where did you do it at? Orbit audio? I live in Seattle......I am looking to buy a house as of now with an out building/barn to build my studio in. I have a Trident 80B 32x24 Looking to load it
with Uptown 990 automation soon! But I have been doing manual mixes for a long time... It really just comes down to how good the song/players etc........are. In the end a song will sound great. But even better with some nice panning etc......But how much of that do you actually here out in a live club with people talking etc......Know what I mean? Do you have red studio in seattle? John

[Jay Kahrs]

I've done plenty of mixes on non-automated consoles... sometimes with the help of someone else for fader moves... most of the time without. I'll put tape down next to the faders & mark points, set up mute-groups... practice a few rides...

It's really easy to 'tweak' the life out of something with automation. Though, generally I like it. Most recently I've been using the DAW for most automation rather then the console. Though with the new desk I'll have to see how it all works out...

Uptown is a great package though. One of my favs.

[Jason Poulin]

I do half and half...

half in my daw and the other I do my own rides manually... mostly vocals, bass and guitars leads/rythms


The critical stuff like mutes, and fade ins and outs, crossfades are done ITB on my setup. Or even snare and tom build-ups are done ITB.


So... yes an no : )


J.

[vernier]

If you miss something, just get that section later and splice it onto the master. Automation is for cocktail muzak.

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by vernier

If you miss something, just get that section later and splice it onto the master. Automation is for cocktail muzak.

Very accurate statement Vernier!

I have not mixed using console automation except for a brief period of about two years in '93 and '94.
I mixed a jillion cuts without automation and just made it happen manually.
I started to mix to 1/2" analog in sections, but then started work that had to remain in tyhe digital domain (haven't heard that term in a while!)
I still mixed in sections, but the console I used daily at that time was a Neve 8128 that had Necam II. It was OK when it worked. I never trusted it though.

Now I mix with the DAW (DP5) doing some stuff and me riding faders as I go.
I like going for a take and I'll stop and start over A LOT until I get what i want.

If the moves are too many and too complex I'll use DP5s level automation.

I never really ever change panning (with the knob) so that isn't an issue.

I pretty much lock in a rhythm section sound and build on top of that.
Vocals and solos are all I tend to ride faders on.

I have just never found a need to make fader moves on drums unless it is an extreme situation.

I have my MCI538c alomost restored and I yanked the automation out of it.
I saw no use for it.
It was VCA based and I'd like to dump the VCAs eventually as well.
That Little Adam is another story.

[vernier]

I once saw RTB mix ..either Cars or Foreigner ..he looked like Captain Nemo at the organ ..hands flying everywhere.

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by vernier

I once saw RTB mix ..either Cars or Foreigner ..he looked like Captain Nemo at the organ ..hands flying everywhere.

His hands fly around naturally.
Some argue that his "condition" is hereditary.

Oh! I dropped the Sparpie. Could you bend over and pick it up for me?

[vernier]

Actually, he's ambidextrous.

[dbbubba]

I think you missed my point.

[idylldon]

I mix on a Neotek Series II and usually have a couple folks from the band I'm recording make fader moves when I need extra hands. It's actually kind of fun to have three or four people participating in the mix as it makes it feel like another part of the overall performance of the music. A splendid time is guaranteed for all!

Cheers,
--
Don

[kats]

Yeah that's how I do it. No big deal, I rarely break 24 tracks of anything important. Plus I'm a minimalist and into space as opposed to dense. And lastly we try to build the dynamics in the performance as opposed to faking it later. So in the end it's not that hard, but it's fun.

It's a whole mindset, you commit to working a certain way for what ever reason you have and then just do it. But I wouldn't go "old school" just for the nostalgia of it all - that would be kind of dumb considering the tools available. Everyone has their own philosophies and asthetics when it comes to this stuff - just choose the best tools that suit it.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Just curious how many of you out there still do mixes on non-automated consoles, and get other people involved to help out with fader moves, panning, effects, etc.

Whenever I can; this is definitely my preferred method of mixing.

As I once described it (might've been here on GS, or maybe rec.audio.pro) when I listen back to my manual mixes done on an analog desk, they sound to me like a Performance; whereas when I listen back to my automated mixes done on a digital desk or in a DAW, they sound to me like a Portfolio Of Decisions.

Unfortunately, it's becoming rarer and rarer for me to do projects that get mixed on an analog desk. Sigh...

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

when I listen back to my manual mixes done on an analog desk, they sound to me like a Performance; whereas when I listen back to my automated mixes done on a digital desk or in a DAW, they sound to me like a Portfolio Of Decisions.

Exactly. And especially for this project it just worked out great. It's kind of funny, because for their demo I really went the exact opposite direction......beat detective, sample replace, automate to hell and back, ect., and for the actual album I really wanted to keep it natural, without all the bells and whistles of modern mixes.

I think one of my main goals was that I didn't want to add anything that would really date it.

Oh, and yes, I did mix at Orbit Audio. Overall it was a great experience, and the rack gear there is pretty top knotch. Plus Joe is a pretty easy guy to do business with.

[Jason Poulin]

Originally Posted by idylldon

I mix on a Neotek Series II and usually have a couple folks from the band I'm recording make fader moves when I need extra hands. It's actually kind of fun to have three or four people participating in the mix as it makes it feel like another part of the overall performance of the music. A splendid time is guaranteed for all!

Cheers,
--
Don

That's pretty cool but... do you give the musicians the fader that they're parts are on? If

so... do you notice them boosting themselves higher and higher as the song progresses?

engineer turns around to grab something and then notices the vocals have become quite louder for some weird reason vocalist pretends like nothing happened... guitarist does the same.... drummer's kick is really loud now.

You gotta watch em like a hawk!! lol

just buggin...


J.

[plexisys]

It's unfortunate that many, not all, of today’s engineers don't realize there is an art of mixing. It's not about programming. I'll take a hands on console any day of the week.

[paultools]

Originally Posted by mgphoto

It's unfortunate that many, not all, of today’s engineers don't realize there is an art of mixing. It's not about programming. I'll take a hands on console any day of the week.

...but being able to program it so that it sounds like you didn't is an artform in itself.