what to do with singers that...

[Jeff16years]

what to do with a singer that has a great voice but when he gets in the booth he just can't do a good job.
He still sings the parts well but with out the same intensity.

do I just give him a handheld? I would rather not but if it helps ge the performance better...

maybe i need a Funkenwerk modded sm57

any help?

[TheRealRoach]

Wine, JDs or Beer?

I'm serious.

[lowfreq33]

Maybe you should use a mic with a tube inside. I hear that makes things more epic.

[RUSCO]

Change the lighting.

Seriously this has worked well for me in the past.

Drugs and alcohol.

Women.

BJ on the side.

[2012]

A 58 or SM7, and try setting up monitors and ditching the headphones.

[TheRealRoach]

Originally Posted by Blender

Stupid advice! Grow up!!

You're right..... Wine, JDs AND Beer. Pardon me.

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by RUSCO

BJ on the side.

No, in the booth. If it's good enough for Jim Morrison...

[Makinithappen]

lowfreq33... you need to work on your manners.

[Daniel Antix]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Maybe you should use a mic with a tube inside. I hear that makes things more epic.

haha

is the singer in view of the control room? maybe put some curtains up so no one is watching?

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

lowfreq33... you need to work on your manners.

No, you guys just need to stop being so mean!dfegadfuuck
Stop it!

[stevep]

Being well prepared, Dim lights, Encouragement from the control room, no one in the studio but the producer, singer, engineer

And know what there capable of, dont beat them up to hard

You can try a "practice" run to get levels... and make sure the red button is down, sometimes these type of singers do better when the pressure is off

maybe do a few passes then take a break and then go for it, tell them your testing mics, getting levels... whatever till there comfortable

a great headphone mix with some verb or effects will help

Some singers are relaxed in the studio and natural preformers,... then there are the ones that have to work at it, Give them 10 years or more, of recording and preforming

The pro session singers can turn it on, whenever the red light is on

[TheRealRoach]

Depends on your DAW/board. I generally feed the stereo outs into the cue-system as well and add a delay or verb. "Mix to Cues"

Nothing fancy really.... What I hear, they hear.

P.S. i wasn't being sarcastic about the wine and beer. The guys probably nervous, so give him some courage juice I say. I just finished a rock record with a group and JDs should practically have a credit in the production notes.

[Makinithappen]

Don';t mind all these stupid people here...

You'll need to send at least 8 channels of reverb into your headphones digitally. Thats the easiest way. You probably need to buy a PCM90 or something else with an ADAT OUT. Real professional headphones will have an "ADAT IN" port on the side of them. You need 8 channels so that you can do 4 stereo channels of reverb simultaneously. Thats also why people buy ProTools HD systems. They have ADAT outputs to make your reverb/delay/EQ/Pitch Shifting sends easier. On LE systems, you need to take TRS cables out into the headphones and it's really inconvenient to have that many cables running to a set of MDR-7506's

[lowfreq33]

Alright, who are you really? Nobody could be that clueless.

[stagefright13]

Singers are the MOST self counciuos people in the band. Good god I tried to spell that the best I can! It is best if the singer is let to do their own thing with out alot of pressure from band mates. If that means the mates leave so be it. But usually the mates cheering on the singer will boost them to recording quality.

Psychology has alot to do with running a good session. And singers are the hardest. Give everyone some room to move. And additional time for for free If they need it. Hey after all us Eng need to make money to live. And making people happy is what it is all about.

[SK1]

Originally Posted by stevep

Being well prepared, Dim lights, Encouragement from the control room, no one in the studio but the producer, singer, engineer

And know what there capable of, dont beat them up to hard

You can try a "practice" run to get levels... and make sure the red button is down, sometimes these type of singers do better when the pressure is off

maybe do a few passes then take a break and then go for it, tell them your testing mics, getting levels... whatever till there comfortable

a great headphone mix with some verb or effects will help

Some singers are relaxed in the studio and natural preformers,... then there are the ones that have to work at it, Give them 10 years or more, of recording and preforming

The pro session singers can turn it on, whenever the red light is on

This is great, real world advice.

Right on Steve.

[TheRealRoach]

Originally Posted by Blender

WTF? Do you even know what you are talking about?

Jeeez just taker easy for a second...

If you would like verb in your headphones then an easy way to do this is as follows:

- Set up a reverb on an aux send (as you normally would to get reverb in a mix situation). This is the same in DAW land as in analog console land.
- Dial in the amount of verb as you see fit.
- At this point, in the control room, you are hearing the verb.
- Now simply feed your CR monitor mix into the headphone sends. Anything you do on your end will affect their HP mix as well (i.e. your newly added reverb). On some consoles this is called Mix to Cues, or Quad to Cues, etc...

Hopefully that clears it up a little. I'm gonna go have a beer.

[teddy07x]

Well, though I'm not a great singer, I do know what it's like to be "in there".

I had to have the curtains there to keep out the "visual noise".
I also tried a few different headphones till I found which pair made me sing better.

A good cue mix is key. Don't let the singer adjust the knobs, cus they dont know shit about levels :P help the singer out finding the right mix.

Be helpful and forthcoming. I think the "run a few practice tests" is a GREAT idea.
a bit of weed or alcohol can work too. but if overdone can make a singer suck.

Make sure you have a bottle of clear voice, some cortisone based Ashma inhalators can give a nice numbing effect to the vocal chords, getting out that extra little.
it certainly helps if you smoke weed. Or any kind of spray that numbs the vocal chords.

Get the singer to warm up, if he doesnt have the habit of warming up, he will get his best performance when his voice really isnt up for it.

and do NOT jack up the cue mix volume too much. keep things at a reasonable volume!!!! the right mike is also important.

And LIE as much as you can. Tell them that you got a mike flown in from LA or NYC, a mike that his favorite singer used or something LOL

it's all about the making the huge ego of a singer feel comfortable. You can say what you want about singers, their ego might be larger than the sun, but then again they are people.

just my 1 dime.

[Energie]

Good stuff.

I think with all talent, there are different ways to "coach" them into thier best performance, and if you get to work with them again, you will have a better idea on how they react to certain coachings trying to get the best performance. But some fallbacks as mentioned are a great place to start, and encouragement can go a long way!! Tell him to go over the top next time, you can always pull him back..

the studio can be an intimidating place if someone is not used to being there, and as someone said, over time they will get more relaxed and turn it on right away.

[TheRealRoach]

Make sure you have a bottle of clear voice, some cortisone based Ashma inhalators can give a nice numbing effect to the vocal chords, getting out that extra little.

All asthma inhalers are going to give the singer is an unusually high heart rate and/or palpitations, which certainly wouldn't help with the whole nervousness thing. I would strongly discourage the use of any asthma inhaler... They are designed to open up the lungs of people who can't freakin breathe. Side-effects are many.

[SK1]

To Jeff ....

This may be the best part about being a producer. The physcological aspect of producing. I've had artists that had to have a group, party type atmosphere to do their best. I've had people that do better with just an engineer. It all depends. They're are people that do well when you encorage them and people that respond better when you are more agressive or pushey.

Lucky for you that this guy has a good voice and "sings the parts well". He just needs some inspiration. Look within yourself and do everything that you can do to set him up for succcess.

[Dyer Maker]

Originally Posted by TheRealRoach

Wine, JDs or Beer?

I'm serious.

So true. Also better lighting and giving the singer a hand held mic and cranking up the big speaker without headphones.

[SK1]

This is a pretty cool thread lol

So what do we have so far ???

Atmosphere

Posse or tracking in isolation

better headphone mix or tracking with a handheld

control their alcohol and drug intake

Every artist is a puzzle for us to solve.

[stevep]

Some great posts here !

Another thing to mention is room sound, a live room with a long decay can make it easier for a singer to get the pitch, feel ect... and not to mention it sounds great in the recording also (semi open cans)

I will use the drum room for V/O work or if i want a dry sound, but a dead room can be hard on singers

Today i was tracking BGVs with a great female vocalist and i had her back off the Pearlman and was slammin it to tape with the MC77 killer room sound, didn't even really need the plate with the comp bringing up the room

peace,

steve


.

[teddy07x]

Originally Posted by TheRealRoach

All asthma inhalers are going to give the singer is an unusually high heart rate and/or palpitations, which certainly wouldn't help with the whole nervousness thing. I would strongly discourage the use of any asthma inhaler... They are designed to open up the lungs of people who can't freakin breathe. Side-effects are many.

Not so true actually, you have different versions of them.
Symbicort is designed for people who have coldweather-asthma.
And it doesnt work the same way as regular inhalers.
it comes as an inhaler and there is some sort of a powder you inhale.

I don't have anything but a mild asthma. And I don't get an increased heart-rate.
The heart rate is increase is at worst only gonna last a very short while.
30 minutes before the session and you are good to go!

That's what my doctor said. He prescribed me the medication to use in studio situations. the longterm side effects are worse though. if you use it everytime you sing, you can wear out some shit I don't remember the techincal term for.

And cortisone also helps preventing inflamations that can occur when singers push too hard.

[uncle duncan]

I don't know about the weed suggestion. Sometimes, weed makes a singer think they're doing something incredible, (something epic!) when all they're doing is singing a monotone line.

Sometimes a player sings better if they have their instrument in their hand.

Put up a really big mic, like a Charter Oaks 538b, on a heavy-duty boom stand. It makes the singer feel more important.

Run their vocal cue through a compressor, so they can get all intimate sounding with themselves.

Perhaps making the stereo image more whacked-out stereo, leaving them a big hole in the middle to sing into.

If you have a cute intern of the opposite sex, (or maybe the same sex, depending...) that could help to inspire the singer.

Have a friend drop by, dressed like Phil Specter. Introduce him as a A&R rep from some big record label.

As a last resort, have the singer wear one of those dog collars like the trainers use, so you can shock him when he sucks.

[TheRealRoach]

Not so true actually, you have different versions of them.
Symbicort is designed for people who have coldweather-asthma.
And it doesnt work the same way as regular inhalers.
it comes as an inhaler and there is some sort of a powder you inhale.

Point taken. I assumed you were talking about Ventolin. I'm a severe asthmatic myself and suffer from chronic palpitations as a result of a lifetime of inhaled (prescription) drugs to treat it. Sucks.

[fross]

Originally Posted by TheRealRoach

All asthma inhalers are going to give the singer is an unusually high heart rate and/or palpitations, which certainly wouldn't help with the whole nervousness thing. I would strongly discourage the use of any asthma inhaler... They are designed to open up the lungs of people who can't freakin breathe. Side-effects are many.

He's absolutely right about this. tutt

[fross]

Originally Posted by teddy07x

Not so true actually, you have different versions of them.
Symbicort is designed for people who have coldweather-asthma.
And it doesnt work the same way as regular inhalers.
it comes as an inhaler and there is some sort of a powder you inhale.

And that's not true either.
This is a perfect example of a little bit of so called knowledge in the wrong hands.

FYI Symbicort not only has a beta agonist (that agent mentioned earlier with the nasty side effects) it also has a steroid in it. And no it's not the Arnold Schwarzenegger type steroid either. It's the f*cks with your adrenals and elevates your blood sugar type steroid.

This is analogous to people popping any ole antibiotic that happens to be in the medicine cabinet, whenever they feel a cold coming on. They have no idea what they are doing and are clueless of the risks involved.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming........

[teddy07x]

Originally Posted by fross

He's absolutely right about this. tutt

hmpf... B.S