British Consoles

[Paul_G]

The British are lazy builders. The Scots seem to be the best designers.
PG

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by Paul_G

The British are lazy builders. The Scots seem to be the best designers.
PG

Hi

Like Barnes McWallis, Rupert McNeve, Frank McWhittle, Frank McHalford (designed a lot of aeroengines), Geoffrey Mc de Havilland, and all the other Scottish greats?

[TornadoTed]

Originally Posted by Scott 1/2 Normal

I'm Welsh and would never call myself British! If anyone is looking for that Welsh console sound, one could never go past Evans consoles, which are built at Ystrad Mynach in and old pit head stock.

Dai Evans (or Evans the Mix as he's known locally) is a true genius. If you want a big sound, these are big! Apparently Jimmy Manic had one tied to his foot when he jumped off the Severn Bridge and he never surfaced, that's how big!

When I used to mix Ivor the Engine for the BBC, I found it impossible to achieve the true Welsh sound without an Evans.

Ich Dien

That's class

[Paul_G]

Originally Posted by Geoff_T

Hi

Like Barnes McWallis, Rupert McNeve, Frank McWhittle, Frank McHalford (designed a lot of aeroengines), Geoffrey Mc de Havilland, and all the other Scottish greats?

Excellent Geoff!

BTW why do many of these great British designers move to the U.S.?

Paul G

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by Paul_G

Excellent Geoff!

BTW why do many of these great British designers move to the U.S.?

Paul G

Haha this thread....


Ok here is one for the US'ers...from a Canadian.

United States of America
"Americans"

Canada, also of America....
"Canadians"

Mexico also of America
"Mexicans"

and that doesn't even include South America....
anyway I have always wondered why they have the namesake. The vikings were in Canada long before Columbus came around. Maybe it should have been United Staten's

Anyway I came to this thread because I have a strong interest in the Toft ATB units.
Anyone who owns one I would love to hear a report without protectionists scabbing them.

Thanks
Lou

[redroom]

Originally Posted by Paul_G

Excellent Geoff!

BTW why do many of these great British designers move to the U.S.?

Paul G

Hihgh cost of living in the UK I guess and too much rain

[dlmorley]

I guess designed by a brit would include Toft. Good enough for many. Built in China? And? At least they get built and shipped to clients...

Second hand, I think the Allen Heath Saber is a great console for the money.

ps: I am totally English and a Brit...

[LongWave]

audient!

[sleestack]

Do these Brit consoles have an over developed sense of irony?

[Paul_G]

Originally Posted by sleestack

Do these Brit consoles have an over developed sense of irony?

No I think the build is mainly coppery and silvery.

[manning1]

re why do brit engrs leave uk.
many reasons.
like my dad may he rip...moved abroad in the 50's after second world war.
he was v bitter about the following.
1. brit employers are cheap often.
2. cos the country is run by bankers n lawyers n idiots who dont realise keeping the
pound high is/has /was wrecking uk manufacturing vs other countries.
3. the brit govt has no concept of a proper industrial strategy.
whereas many foreign countries do.
4. taxes are biased towards extraction from the middle clsses n the rich get richer.
and..
5. rain.....lo.
britain has produced lots of engrs over the decades but other countries value em more
than britain does imho.
britain has a v good university system.
the problem is it churns out highly educated people then expects em to dumb emselves down n fit into junk jobs.
brit engrs are perfectly capable of building great products.
the problem is the dam accountants n bankers often wont let em.

[Paul_G]

Originally Posted by manning1

re why do brit engrs leave uk.
many reasons.
like my dad may he rip...moved abroad in the 50's after second world war.
he was v bitter about the following.
1. brit employers are cheap often.
2. cos the country is run by bankers n lawyers n idiots who dont realise keeping the
pound high is/has /was wrecking uk manufacturing vs other countries.
3. the brit govt has no concept of a proper industrial strategy.
whereas many foreign countries do.
4. taxes are biased towards extraction from the middle clsses n the rich get richer.
and..
5. rain.....lo.
britain has produced lots of engrs over the decades but other countries value em more
than britain does imho.
britain has a v good university system.
the problem is it churns out highly educated people then expects em to dumb emselves down n fit into junk jobs.
brit engrs are perfectly capable of building great products.
the problem is the dam accountants n bankers often wont let em.

I'm sorry, did you by any chance genetically inherit this bitterness or was it drilled into you?
I understand why intelligent British people leave this kingdom. I was joking.
I will also be leaving soon, as I can no longer stand the sound of my own voice moaning about taxes, education, accountants, lawyers, banks and bad weather/service etc.

It's just a silly thread if you had really read it all.

PG

P.S. How's Canada? I have relations there.

[manning1]

pg.
just pm me bout canada.
if u want info.
(in my last post just sub the word canada for britain...and cdn dollar for pound.
and youll get the flavor that canada has similar probs to the uk.
particularly a poor unfocused industrial strategy imho. everything in our shops like england eg currys.. is imported. )

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by manning1

pg.
just pm me bout canada.
if u want info.
(in my last post just sub the word canada for britain...and cdn dollar for pound.
and youll get the flavor that canada has similar probs to the uk.
particularly a poor unfocused industrial strategy imho. everything in our shops like england eg currys.. is imported. )

Oh, and he forgot to mention...it is the most wonderful place in the world to live.
But that is not why one lives here.

[bunnerabb]

the A&H have some pretty nice pres.

[TomD]

A&H Console
I have my Allen and Heath Saber 32x16 board up for sale. The pres are very good and the EQs are musical. It has a full Bantam Patch bay and programmable mutes. The original built in computer that controls the mutes is no longer on line but you're better off using a seqencer as you can then edit your moves. It would serve as a good tracking board in a small room. I bought the board new in 1991 and have produced lots of professional work on it including dance remixes for Polygram and lots of scores and jingles....see: www.desistomusic.com ......

Here's the craigslist entry with more details:

http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/msg/663033441.html

Tom Desisto

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kinsey

Never slashed the ATB, am only stating facts here. The ATB is not a British Console, it is made by an American company called PMI Audio and the console is manufactured in China. Not that it makes any difference!

Just thought id set the record straight as it appears that some people think otherwise. The fact that we sell Trident Audio products doesn't change the facts here, its not like ive made any subjective claims!

"Just to set the record straight..."

By your definition, your "Trident" is NOT a British console either.

Anyone know that this guy and all others at Oram FAIL to mention this thing is NOT built in the UK like they lead you to believe... ? Go do some research and find the true facts.

[dannygold]

Originally Posted by china jam

British or English??

I don't know any English people that call themselves British, neither do I know any Scots or Welsh that call themselves British. If you told Jade Goody she was British her head would implode from the confusion.

Calling an English geeeeezer British is very American.

On the other hand, Canadian's could be considered British.

I've never said/typed British so many times in my English life.

Isn't Europe all like one country now?

[Peacock]

Originally Posted by james.ca

I can scrape up the coin for a new A&H 24 channel mixer are these any good for recording use and any other British brands up to 3K 24-32 XLR ins , I prefere also new models only don't want some elses heahaches
Thanks James

Consider the Soundcraft Ghost as well. Its British I think?. Not as many kinks as the Toft ( they have already been worked out) and can be modified to out perform the Toft.

In my opinion, the Ghost is better sounding than the A&H. The Ghost is solid and pro level. I have some Ghost mixes I will mail you if you PM me your mailing address.

I did upgrade to the Neotek Elan but the Ghost can give you British flavored solid mixes.

This may be non applicable since this is such an old thread but I will send you the mixes if you are still interested.

[Steffmo]

Just to clarify as far as A and H pres of that era,

The top of the line console was the Sigma, 8 transistors driving an IC

SAber, essentially the same with 6 transistors. There was also a Mk2 Saber, which corrected some of the internal wiring issues that developed on Mk 1s.

Most of the rest of the line (System 8, SR, CMC) 4 transisors and an IC.

All the units had a very similar pre, scaled up or down to the price point. The one console I son't remember much about was the Spectrum, which was just being shipped when Harman bought the company. As Harman immediately pushed the company out of the recording field, I don't think there are too many around.

A curious A and H piece, if you stumble on one, is the Scepter rackmount. At one point it was deemed appropriate that A and H US build some product in the US so that the balance of payments moving back and forth could be leveled out.

The result was the Scepter, and very high quality rack mixer largely designed by John Petrucelli, later of Crest Consoles and now of APB Dynasonics. No less arecording luminary than Phil Ramone was partial to these mixers for remote work.

They are 12 by 2 mixers which could be linked. If you see one...buy it. They sound remarkable. I know of several still in use.

One more note, Glen Rogers, Allena nad Heaths main designer for the last umpteen years is both a great guy and a savvy, passionate designer. Although his name doesn't get a lot of of attention because its not a glamor line It could be argued that Glen spoiled more budding engineers than anyone by allowing then to take good sound for granted in a mid level line. I would put Dave Deardon, once or Soundcraft and DDA, now of Audient in the same catagory. These guys really helped perpetuate the idea of a"British Sound", and even if they weren't creating Neve or SSL level products their stuff always sounded good and allowed those of us without the big bank to still get a big sound.

Thanks guys.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Peacock

Consider the Soundcraft Ghost as well. Its British I think?. Not as many kinks as the Toft ( they have already been worked out) and can be modified to out perform the Toft.

In my opinion, the Ghost is better sounding than the A&H. The Ghost is solid and pro level. I have some Ghost mixes I will mail you if you PM me your mailing address.

I did upgrade to the Neotek Elan but the Ghost can give you British flavored solid mixes.

This may be non applicable since this is such an old thread but I will send you the mixes if you are still interested.

Modded to out-perform the Toft?

Really?

I just had my Toft modded by Inward Connections and I'd put that WAAAAAAY above any mod on any Ghost.

If you think the Vac Rac is amazing, the rest of Steve's work is right up there.

(It may be an only kind, they have some new tricks up their sleeves.)

And as to your "...they can be modded to out-perform the Toft.." well, that's just not true or ignorant or some combination. It's statements like that that really give G.S. serious B.S. factor.


-andrews

[dlmorley]

Ghost never did it for me. The AH Sabre I was using at the time was MUCH better sounding I thought. Also, it didn't seem as well put together.
I have no idea about recent AH desks though

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by Steffmo

Just to clarify as far as A and H pres of that era,

The top of the line console was the Sigma, 8 transistors driving an IC

SAber, essentially the same with 6 transistors. There was also a Mk2 Saber, which corrected some of the internal wiring issues that developed on Mk 1s.

Most of the rest of the line (System 8, SR, CMC) 4 transisors and an IC.

All the units had a very similar pre, scaled up or down to the price point. The one console I son't remember much about was the Spectrum, which was just being shipped when Harman bought the company. As Harman immediately pushed the company out of the recording field, I don't think there are too many around.

A curious A and H piece, if you stumble on one, is the Scepter rackmount. At one point it was deemed appropriate that A and H US build some product in the US so that the balance of payments moving back and forth could be leveled out.

The result was the Scepter, and very high quality rack mixer largely designed by John Petrucelli, later of Crest Consoles and now of APB Dynasonics. No less arecording luminary than Phil Ramone was partial to these mixers for remote work.

They are 12 by 2 mixers which could be linked. If you see one...buy it. They sound remarkable. I know of several still in use.

One more note, Glen Rogers, Allena nad Heaths main designer for the last umpteen years is both a great guy and a savvy, passionate designer. Although his name doesn't get a lot of of attention because its not a glamor line It could be argued that Glen spoiled more budding engineers than anyone by allowing then to take good sound for granted in a mid level line. I would put Dave Deardon, once or Soundcraft and DDA, now of Audient in the same catagory. These guys really helped perpetuate the idea of a"British Sound", and even if they weren't creating Neve or SSL level products their stuff always sounded good and allowed those of us without the big bank to still get a big sound.

Thanks guys.

I have a Saberthat I was kind of gifted for peanuts by a benevolent studio owner. Should I be using the pres on this over my Groove Tubes Brick? I know they're very different but I guess because I got the desk so cheap I always wondered just how good it really was. Maybe it's my best piece of kit?!

[Steffmo]

I have a Brick as well.....gets used a lot But its soooo different from your console I don't know that the question is even applicable.

That console was between 18 and 40K depending on the frame and loading. Not that that matters...but its a decent mid level desk that could hang with a lower level Trident , like a 65 or 70, and i probably a little better sounding then say, a TAC Scorpion.

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by Steffmo

I have a Brick as well.....gets used a lot But its soooo different from your console I don't know that the question is even applicable.

That console was between 18 and 40K depending on the frame and loading. Not that that matters...but its a decent mid level desk that could hang with a lower level Trident , like a 65 or 70, and i probably a little better sounding then say, a TAC Scorpion.

I was just wondering if the Saber is a lot higher end than the Brick. I know the desk I had cost nearly UK£30,000 in 1989. My Brick cost me *ahem* US$250. I hear the difference between the two but I find it hard to define. Maybe if I did a 36 track project using each pre's I'd hear the difference loud and clear.

[littlenemo]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Modded to out-perform the Toft?

Really?

I just had my Toft modded by Inward Connections and I'd put that WAAAAAAY above any mod on any Ghost.

If you think the Vac Rac is amazing, the rest of Steve's work is right up there.

(It may be an only kind, they have some new tricks up their sleeves.)

And as to your "...they can be modded to out-perform the Toft.." well, that's just not true or ignorant or some combination. It's statements like that that really give G.S. serious B.S. factor.


-andrews

sorry to hijack this thread but can you tell me exactly what kind of mods inward connections did to your toft board and how it improved its sound ?

thanks

[Steffmo]

If I had to make a statement Juicy I would say that the Brick is probably a little higher end pre than the one in a Saber.

I think a Sabre channel was about 700.00 vs. the 250.00 you paid for the Brick.

But the Sabre channel for its money also has a full EQ....and a pretty good one at that, 6 auxes, a tape monitor section, pan and channel fader.

My point is simply that the pre in the Sabre has to be built for somewhat less than the Brick, as there is a lot of other stuff in the channel.

But that is more of a semi accurate analysis of costing to manufacture than a real comment on the audio quality. I had a Sabre for a few months before my sSgma came in, and did some good sounding records on it.

Bottom line is there is no real answer to your question other than what your ears tell you.

Originally Posted by juicylime

I was just wondering if the Saber is a lot higher end than the Brick. I know the desk I had cost nearly UK£30,000 in 1989. My Brick cost me *ahem* US$250. I hear the difference between the two but I find it hard to define. Maybe if I did a 36 track project using each pre's I'd hear the difference loud and clear.

[tdr]

Originally Posted by littlenemo

sorry to hijack this thread but can you tell me exactly what kind of mods inward connections did to your toft board and how it improved its sound ?

thanks

+1 this sounds very interesting, and I think it deserves its own thread, please...

[Peacock]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

I just had my Toft modded by Inward Connections and I'd put that WAAAAAAY above any mod on any Ghost.

If you think the Vac Rac is amazing, the rest of Steve's work is right up there.

The modded Ghost will perform as well or slightly bette