Duende: To Be.... or not to Be...

[mynameischance]

Hello all,

With so many mixed and varying reviews on the Duende, I ended up going on gut feeling. Hopefully that feeling pans out to be true, of course. Fortunately for me, Sweetwater has a 30 day return policy in the event I run into problems beyond my control. So I receive my package with my new toy next Thursday.

The thing is I'm native. The idea of buying the waves pack made me nervous because, with mixes, I tend to push my computer as it is. In essence my goal is a sort of SSL board emulation with every possible track running through it. At least...that's my goal. I'm almost entirely in the box, and at least by theoretically accepting the Duende will work well, I should be able to accomplish more. Looking forward to the SSL learning curve, as we are all students at the end of the day, no?

So, to all, I ask this:
If you're a Duende User, and you've been happy, please share your thoughts and general prognosis. Tips too if you've found some things works better than others (or to steer away from things, notions and work patterns). So many things to address apart from sound alone, like delay comp etc and cpu load.

If you WERE a Duende user and just couldn't get yourself to stay on board, what forced you to say goodbye? Sound? Logistics? Hardware issues?

I will add this one potentially crucial note: I'm giving it its own dedicated firewire card so it doesn't have to compete for love from the PTLE.

And finally, thanks in advance not only to your responses to this post, but for all the helpful posts on this here gearslutz forum. I'm consistently reminded here about the potential power of collective intelligence (especially the Stupid Things Said at Guitar Center thread: oh yea!).


Look forward to all your responses.

[Jim@SSL]

Lots of helpful tips in our FAQs.. well worth a visit.

And as always, it never hurts to have a friendly face in the forum!

[mynameischance]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

Lots of helpful tips in our FAQs.. well worth a visit.

And as always, it never hurts to have a friendly face in the forum!

Hi Jim, thanks for the kind response. Yes, I've been to your forum and was actually quite surprised at the mixed to bad feelings. However, I was quick to note that many of the post dates of those particular threads were at or around the time when the duende first came out.

My feeling (again keeping with my gut) is that most of those people a) didn't use a dedicated firewire card or b) were perhaps flummoxed by the 1.0 version of the software. That perhaps things had been ironed out since and will hopefully allow me a relatively error free install and use. Yes, I am a glass half full kind of guy.

I also really appreciate the many tutorials on your site. I plan on taking advantage of those.

Actually, I may just post my post on your forum and see what the other duende users think too. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Jim@SSL]

As always, one has to be "aware" when looking at forum posts. You could read one of two things....

a) everyone has a problem
or
b) only people with problems post - others who have happy systems are busy working :-)

While we know that there have been some issues, we are pretty confident that our latest drivers answer most of these.

Look out for more news at AES

[mynameischance]

uhoh. Do you mean you're about to put out a new product just after I bought this one?

(I have an uncanny knack for buying gear that is about to out date itself...)

Well, my Duende arrives Thursday. Would love to hear from other Gearslutz about their Duende!

[Jim@SSL]

New announcements for the platform - can't say more than that.


Anyway... just a few days to wait

[gollumsluvslave]

New announcements for the platform - can't say more than that.

Hmmm, I've just seen a great deal on the Duende in the UK - can get it for £639, but I'm thinking of holding off until after AES in case there is some new products announced.

Are the announcements software related or hardware related (control surface???!!!) - i.e. I don't want to get the existing Duende hardware if something else is in the pipeline!

[CKK]

What he said ^

[Jim@SSL]

Patience......................

[gollumsluvslave]

Patience......................

Arggh!

It's a saving of over £350 on the RRP, i'm seriously on the fence here, especially with the reports of stability with the latest drivers! The deal is a 24 hour sale so it's gonna be back at normal RRP tomorrow!



Decisions, decisions!
I'll be dfegaded if I miss out on the deal and there is no new hardware at AES, butif I get it and there is new hardware at AES i'll be dfegaded as well.

Sod's law!!

[preben]

Given the age of the Duende (very new!) I would be surprised if the 'news' from SSL has anything to do with hardware.

If I were you I'd go for it at that price - heck, I'm even tempting myself here - wouldn't mind having a second unit really :-)

Obviously I could be wrong - and it wouldn't be the first time

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

New announcements for the platform - can't say more than that.


Anyway... just a few days to wait

do NOT do this to me!! Jim...argh! At least I have another thing to look forward to now (along with my SONAR 7 upgrade, arriving tomorrow).

Here is what I think of the Duende - How does the Duende do it??

I've completely fallen head-over-heals in love with my Duende over the 14 or 126 months that I've owned it. We had a rocky start, but I am 100% now. I actually never had any stability issues, like others when using the Duende alone (on a PC). But, at first, my Duende did not play well with others. I had issues with trying to use a Duende + native plug on a track. I also had a very slight issue on the PC when using a Duende and a UAD-1 plug on the same track. It would occasionally cause playback to stop. I concluded that this was actually a problem with the UAD-1 drivers and not the Duende (long story).

I was floored by the sound when I 1st got it. But now, I am something else that I don't have an adjective for OK, that is a little over the top and not necessarily true, but the bottom line is, the Duende is actually my favorite piece of gear.

I do not have a lot of high-end gear, but I have some nice pieces. When I think about it, nothing does more for my mixes and overall 'sound' than the Duende. I am definitely buying a second one in 2008...DEFINITELY.

Once I closed my eyes, plugged my nose and bought Drumstrip, it opened up a whole new aspect of mixing for me. It literally changed the way I approached and mixed drums all together. No joke. I did (and still do) believe it is over-priced for what it is...but that does not change how great of a tool that it is!

I won't ramble too much here...search for my threads if you'd like the views of someone who has over a year with the box and who has used it on every single mix in that time frame. I'd venture a guess that I have a Duende plug on well over 500 or 600 tracks in projects folders!


PS - I use it on a PC now, primarily with SONAR and PTLE. I've also used it on my Mac with MOTU DP and Logic Express. Absolutely always rock solid on the PC. A little fidgety on the Mac...until the latest drivers came out. I use it mostly at 48k, but I occasionally use it at 88k, when the project calls for it. I used to have a strange problem at 88k with the Mac. It used to just stop processing audio. I would have to save the preset (which I always do anyhow), remove the plug from the insert or bus, then re-apply it. That does not happen any more.

[krh]

This is an issue that needs to be addressed with PT 7.3 on an intel mac.

[Lownotes]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

Patience......................

OK, haven't we waited long enough???

[Jim@SSL]

Friday 5th October is when the show opens

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

Friday 5th October is when the show opens

Great...thanks...you've just *assured* that the next 9 days will go slower for me now!

[MeatPye]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

Friday 5th October is when the show opens

Jim - will there be jelly, ice cream and Autofade on our Duende MBC?

[manthe]

Originally Posted by MeatPye

Jim - will there be jelly, ice cream and Autofade on our Duende MBC?

That was my guess too...unfortunately. Either that or a limiter. Maybe yours isnt a guess???

I will hold out hope for something less 'utilitarian'. It is hard to imagine that anything that SSL adds to the Duende will be *THAT* much better than the Precision series stuff for UAD-1 cards.

I want some esoteric FX!

[MeatPye]

Originally Posted by manthe

That was my guess too...unfortunately. !

An Autofade would be good. The SSL MBC has it's own way of fading and I'd personally like to see that in the Duende.

Or maybe SSL have figured out a way of adding VHD to the Duende. Who knows?

[mynameischance]

Grabbing wheel and steering this puppy back to my original thread...

My Duende just arrived. In 3 hours I shall be installing it.

I can't wait!!! Fingers crossed that LE and Duende find happiness.

[muzikhead]

I love my Duende. The sound is outstanding and with the new drivers I was able to drive it to the max with no hiccups.
To be honest, the sound is so good I didn't mind the problems that I had with the previous versions that much.

Yes, the sound is that good.

You'll be very happy to have it in your rack. Just make sure to give it its own firewire bus and you're golden.

If you're using UAD-1 along with Duende, make sure you read all the tips on UAudio's web site on optimizing your system, card installation location etc. (On some G5, there are 2 PCI busses and UA recommends to put the card on it's own bus etc. YMMV)

[Jonny Radford]

I have had my Duende for about 8 months and it is fantastic. Never had any issues EVER (probably just jinxed myself). My dealer recommended I get a powered firewire hub and install an internal hard drive to run all audio. It has worked like a charm and has never crashed, dropped audio or exploded as some would claim.

I am looking at getting a second and daisey-chaining them together.

I am also getting 40 channels of X-Rack to run my mixes through.

I am naming my first-born Solid-State Logic.

I am nervous that SSL will bring out something awesome at AES that will make me furious that I have gone this route!!!!

DAMN convention announcements!!!!!!

[t.dizzle]

I'm selling my Duende...And it's not easy getting rid of it. Check the classifieds here on GS and you'll see for yourself. I've had it for around 9 months now. The buss compressor is really good, but I'd rather have the real deal or a CS-1. If I can ever sell this thing, I'll use part of that money to get the real buss comp. I don't use the channel strip on vocals anymore - it just doesn't sound good to me. I say these things with extensive experience on 4k's, 6k's, 9k's, and the Axiom MT. As a matter of fact, I was in Mix with the MT when they first came out. I have friends who currently work for SSL and friends that have worked for them before and they are a great company for sure - so I'm not just being a hater. I'm a HUGE fan of SSL, but I think that this Duende thing will be worthless (just like most digital gear) in the not so distant future. SSL shoulda made the Drumstrip add-on free, too.

I hope that this big announcement is worth waiting for...I'm starting to doubt if anyone is gonna buy this thing from me. Hopefully this announcement will include a revamped GUI, because the current one looks cheap as hell. Trust me, I really really want to like this thing! I'm gonna be super pissed if the announcement says "Duende is now 50% cheaper than before", or "Check out this NEW piece that will replace Duende".

[Jonny Radford]

Dizzle

I agree with you. I would love to have an SSL console or 48 channels of x-rack EQ or comp but the moula just ain't there right now. Actually it is but my wife would shit a kitten if I dropped 100k on an SSL console.

For digital, I enjoy the Duende. Again...for a pluggie.

I am also waiting for the announcement along the lines of "for those who bought the original duende....SUCKERS!!!! Duende...now buy 0 get 3 free"

[dannyschmanny]

maybe it will be a a mix controller with duende built in....like a version of that 24 channel tascam controller awhile back that was a good idea but they never put in any actual work to make any of the software function with the hardware properly. haha

[JB872]

Originally Posted by dannyschmanny

maybe it will be a a mix controller with duende built in....like a version of that 24 channel tascam controller awhile back that was a good idea but they never put in any actual work to make any of the software function with the hardware properly. haha

Probably a long shot...but that would be nice. Or how about a Channel Strip Controller with Duende built in to it.

[mynameischance]

Update:
Duende is installed. New Firewire card is installed. Could only test it with headphones as it was late. Not enough data to give first impression. Will report later tomorrow.

I'm taking a previous mix and stripping it of all automation, all plugins and starting from scratch with the Duende. Want to see how far I can go.

As of last night, I had the buss comp on the stereo buss, and kick snare, floor rack, OH, ROOM, bass and guitar master submix all going through the Duende. It was fritzing a little towards the end. A couple of times I had to close the mix and re-open. It is funny to see the CPU load within Pro Tools be almost nothing.

Can't really comment on sound like i said, because it was all cans. But tonight, I'll get home around 4 and try with speakers.

A lot to learn about how the SSL strip affects my sounds. We'll see!

[manthe]

All I can say is, take your time. I know itts just a CS and a compressor, butbut I've found the CS to be pretty deep. Every little thing effects the next. Then you have order of operations that you can tweak which changes things even further.

It took me several months to 'nail iot'. I mean, I was getting great sounds out of it right away, for the most part. But, once I was 'intimate' with it, and understood every nuance, I am *really* able to squeeze a lot of life out of it.

If you have some decent outboard comps and/or EQs, do an A/B/C with Duende, outboards and another, quality CS or EQ comp. I think you'll hear what I'm talking about.

Also, it took me a while to like the bus comp. But that is because I was using it wrong. I was using it like a software comp (which it is), but I found that when I treated like an outboard, it rewarded me a lot more. I feel like I can push it a lot further than other plug-in comps.

Just opinions, as always...

Good luck and have fun. This is a really good tool!

Originally Posted by mynameischance

Update:
Duende is installed. New Firewire card is installed. Could only test it with headphones as it was late. Not enough data to give first impression. Will report later tomorrow.

I'm taking a previous mix and stripping it of all automation, all plugins and starting from scratch with the Duende. Want to see how far I can go.

As of last night, I had the buss comp on the stereo buss, and kick snare, floor rack, OH, ROOM, bass and guitar master submix all going through the Duende. It was fritzing a little towards the end. A couple of times I had to close the mix and re-open. It is funny to see the CPU load within Pro Tools be almost nothing.

Can't really comment on sound like i said, because it was all cans. But tonight, I'll get home around 4 and try with speakers.

A lot to learn about how the SSL strip affects my sounds. We'll see!

[superburtm]

HEY CHANCE..I AM A GOOD BUDDY OF BOB V. good to see you here! Lemme know how the Duende is working for you! Taker easy,Burt

Originally Posted by mynameischance

Update:
Duende is installed. New Firewire card is installed. Could only test it with headphones as it was late. Not enough data to give first impression. Will report later tomorrow.

I'm taking a previous mix and stripping it of all automation, all plugins and starting from scratch with the Duende. Want to see how far I can go.

As of last night, I had the buss comp on the stereo buss, and kick snare, floor rack, OH, ROOM, bass and guitar master submix all going through the Duende. It was fritzing a little towards the end. A couple of times I had to close the mix and re-open. It is funny to see the CPU load within Pro Tools be almost nothing.

Can't really comment on sound like i said, because it was all cans. But tonight, I'll get home around 4 and try with speakers.

A lot to learn about how the SSL strip affects my sounds. We'll see!

[mynameischance]

Originally Posted by superburtm

HEY CHANCE..I AM A GOOD BUDDY OF BOB V. good to see you here! Lemme know how the Duende is working for you! Taker easy,Burt

HAHA! Hey Burt, Bob rules!! How are you?

Did my first pass with Duende, and so far so good. I'll try to get a mix to where I like it and maybe post a before (mix was actually completed a month ago before Duende) and after, with an all new take and approach using the Duende.

The first thing I'm noticing is that SSL sounds are helping me lift the guitars and vocals more easily. this particular track has a distorted bass, so I still need to work on the bottom. And I may have used the buss comp a bit much on this first pass, but it's still early going.

Essentially so far so good.

By the way, to all: I am using a channel strip on:
Kick, Snare, Bass, Guitar Buss, OH, My big dumb drum buss (I take kick,snare, and toms and slam them through either an 1176 or Fairchild[UAD's, of course] to get allthe punch in the world), and my room mic.

I'm running the buss comp only the stereo mix right now.

I'm having a lot of fun, it's a lot of new tones that my mind is taking in, learning... learning... learning...