What would you charge for this??

[Kyle Ashley]

I've been contacted by a potential buyer who wants me to produce 17 songs. The reference tracks are all Michael Jackson pop ballads which are pretty lush productions with orch, etc.

So to break it down I'll have to:

Write music for 17 tracks. Record and arrange all the ingredients. Hire and record session vocalists for all the tracks. Edit, mix, and deliver all the masters.

These are not sound-alikes but rather use the Michael Jackson stuff as a general direction for structure, tempo, production, etc.

I'm trying to get a consensus or average of what the community would charge for something like this. My main business model has stock, priced "packages" for songs, but they are based upon the clients actually writing the music and providing the rough demo and arrangements. Actually writing material, and making it GOOD, requires a lot of additional creative energies on my part.

The final products are to be used as "demos" for shopping purposes only, or perhaps limited or regional release.

So...what would your per song fee be for a project like this?

Thanks!!

[rwhitney]

I would do all 17 songs for $5k (but I'm very cheap, I think).

[DontLetMeDrown]

10k. Price could go up or down depending on the quality and how much I believe in the songs.

[moracspace]

5 to 10k a song

[Dan]

$1000/minute.

oh wait, that's video...


$500/minute.

[allencollins]

I charge 15k per song. But that includes an analog mix to cassette tape!!!!

[Protools Guy]

I would suggest $50/hour.
I would also suggest you stay clear of project pricing.

[Kyle Ashley]

Wow...ride range of pricing here. Thanks for the replies. I am more inclined to do this hourly than flat fee at this point. Main thing is earning the client's trust....they're in London and I'm in USA so we'll be doing this long distance. I may need to outsource some of the work as well depending on their deadlines so I may be contacting some of the slutz for assistance.

[midigod]

Originally Posted by rwhitney

I would do all 17 songs for $5k (but I'm very cheap, I think).

I think you're way too cheap, even if you had little experience. I don't think I could even hire session players for 17 songs for $5K, much less include my own time, particularly if we're talking about more lush production than just guitar, bass, drums, keys. The original poster will have to not only compose, but also do all the hiring, run the sessions, do the scores if necessary.... for me, these kinds of projects always end up wwwaaaayyyyy more involved than they are at the beginning.

While I sometimes do project pricing, it seems to me that this project is too large to be able to do that - there are just too many variables. What if you write 17 songs you think are great, and he doesn't like twelve of them?

Craig

[Kyle Ashley]

Originally Posted by midigod

I think you're way too cheap, even if you had little experience. I don't think I could even hire session players for 17 songs for $5K, much less include my own time. Especially if we're talking about more lush production than just guitar, bass, drums, keys.

While I sometimes do project pricing, it seems to me that this project is too large to be able to do that - there are just too many variables. What if you write 17 songs you think are great, and he doesn't like twelve of them?

Craig

Exactly my thoughts....Obviously they'll have to be content with less than the full Qunicy Jones production as they don't have that kind of budget. Also, I would approach it one song at a time so I don't get into a lot of work that gets kicked back for whatever reason.

I'm going to put this on them and just find out what their budget range per song is.

[travisbrown]

What if they don't like the songs?

Hourly. Go hourly. Get a hefty, hefty advance.

Do you retain rights?

[gsqd]

50K retainer plus ALL project expenses!
Then negotiate points on the back end for your writing and production taking into account publishing for any co-written material.

Also. GET A BLOODY GOOD LAWYER!

GM

[Dan]

Originally Posted by gsqd

50K retainer plus ALL project expenses!
Then negotiate points on the back end for your writing and production taking into account publishing for any co-written material.

Also. GET A BLOODY GOOD LAWYER!

GM

I wonder if Q would do it for that.

[GearHunter]

$60/hour, plus musicians. Get at least $10 grand in-advance as a retainer, (that's a month) and when that ten-grand is close to being used up, get another ten.

Then hire me as a private consultant and gear supplier.

[SeanG]

IMO 17 songs is to many for a starting point, contract for 5 and see how it goes.

Charge $1,500 to $3,000 per song plus points for producing fee.

That does not include mixing and mastering, charge hourly for those services, and out-source it.

Also bill them separate for studio musicians fees.

[chadly]

Hourly plus musicians fees. We do that quite a bit where I work. Most of the session guys I work with charge per song (not a standard thing, just how it works in our room lately)

Points if you feel that it won't scare the client away, but that's monopoly money.

Do the first song hourly, then they'll know the budget for the rest.

Just my $.02. Best of luck!

[tommyd123]

Originally Posted by Kyle Ashley

I've been contacted by a potential buyer who wants me to produce 17 songs. The reference tracks are all Michael Jackson pop ballads which are pretty lush productions with orch, etc.

So to break it down I'll have to:

Write music for 17 tracks. Record and arrange all the ingredients. Hire and record session vocalists for all the tracks. Edit, mix, and deliver all the masters.

These are not sound-alikes but rather use the Michael Jackson stuff as a general direction for structure, tempo, production, etc.

I'm trying to get a consensus or average of what the community would charge for something like this. My main business model has stock, priced "packages" for songs, but they are based upon the clients actually writing the music and providing the rough demo and arrangements. Actually writing material, and making it GOOD, requires a lot of additional creative energies on my part.

The final products are to be used as "demos" for shopping purposes only, or perhaps limited or regional release.

So...what would your per song fee be for a project like this?

Thanks!!

To me the key issue would be who is the buyer? Is it a label of some sort? Is this an upfront buy out or do you hold/own the copyrights to the songs? If it's an upfront buy out then you essentially sell them your services and the songs lock stock and barrel.
If this is the case, then a flat rate per song would be appropriate. Or, is this for a specific artist? If you're writing for a specific artist and your songs, production and recording are what leads to a recording contract then you should share in the potential earnings. You may want to keep in mind that if these songs eventually become part of a release there could be significant back end, (ie publishing/songwriting/performance royalties) money as well.
Good luck!
Tom

[Benjy King]

Originally Posted by SeanG

IMO 17 songs is to many for a starting point, contract for 5 and see how it goes.

Charge $1,500 to $3,000 per song plus points for producing fee.

That does not include mixing and mastering, charge hourly for those services, and out-source it.

Also bill them separate for studio musicians fees.

______________________________________
In my opinion and experience this is right on point.

[rwhitney]

Originally Posted by Kyle Ashley

Write music for 17 tracks.Thanks!!

I thought this was just to ARRANGE Michael Jackson ballads, not write them! Yes, I rather did under-qoute didn't I? LOL

I can't write that stuff, so I'd do it for free!

[picksail]

For a project such as this, I would probably invoice them weekly at my hourly rate.

Session musicians (expenses) shall be either included or recouped per weekly invoice.

Even on an indie level the project price would seem astronomical to the artist.

I'm just basing upon what I would consider sufficient for myself.

Stick with the hourly.

[Kyle Ashley]

Thanks for all the excellent replies. As far as I know the buyer is an individual who wants to shop their songwriting (lyricwriting). I'm doubtful there is enough to money to really do it correctly, but as I mentioned above, I'm putting it back on them to offer up at least some ballpark budget, and I'll go from there.

I'm a proficient instrumentalist/programmer and much of the tracking will be done by me, but vocals will be hired in, with some additional session players used in bits.

I have a good entertainment lawyer licensed both in the US and UK to sketch it out once we've gotten on the same page regarding rights and money. Right now I'll see what their budget is, and see if its feasible. I'll report back at that point.

[nickynicknick]

Being that this isn't a signed artist...unless they have a killer voice and lyrics..I would respectfully suggest that you don't do it at all. It has an "I've got this great idea how to make money in this business" scent to it...IMO you'd be much better off working with artists that have a musical vision (not just a template)..."just make it sound like Thriller" is a waste of your time.....but to answer your question...I think you would be spending at least a year and half doing this, and that's only if you are a songwriting machine. Good luck.

Nick

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Kyle Ashley

....so I may be contacting some of the slutz for assistance.

"Ooooh, baby....
Here I am
I'm not the man
That I was...

And that's because...

Of you....."


[This has already cost you... oh... more than $45, anyway....]

[stagefright13]

Cover songs? Never did that except Karaoke walk ins. But I mostly do voice to video... And some other undisclosed things.
Karaoke is 150 bucks 3 songs... lol

[Neruk]

Wait.. are they ONLY sending you 17 sets of lyrics for songs? ONLY lyrics.. as in poem form with no melodies or ANYTHING?????

And YOU do ALL of EVERYTHING except you use those lyrics? And then THEY shop the songs as their own?

Please tell me some people don't actually work this way. Are there actually people that write songs without any type of melody and just sell/shop them in "poem" form?

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Neruk

Are there actually people that write songs without any type of melody and just sell/shop them in "poem" form?

"I can tell by the way
That you loved me today
We could go all the way...

If you want to...."

[DontLetMeDrown]

Originally Posted by Kyle Ashley

I may need to outsource some of the work as well depending on their deadlines so I may be contacting some of the slutz for assistance.

Hit me up. I'll help however I can.

[stagefright13]

We sluts are here to help you! I may not be able to help you but tons of others will!

[ZenKen]

Originally Posted by SeanG

IMO 17 songs is to many for a starting point, contract for 5 and see how it goes.

Charge $1,500 to $3,000 per song plus points for producing fee.

That does not include mixing and mastering, charge hourly for those services, and out-source it.

Also bill them separate for studio musicians fees.

^^^^^^
This seems to be really reasonable advice...
And maybe you can help weed out the weaker songs/ideas, it'll make the whole writing/tracking experience more fun and productive.

I don't think many A&R publishing people/placement people/managers have the patience these days to have 17 tunes pitched to them anyway...5 or 6 awesome songs, your client (and you, if you co-write them) will be golden...

(and if you need a session singer, feel free to hit me up, ftp makes the world go round a little faster)