Why does click track = bicycle helmet??

manthe · 18th September 2007, 02:50 AM

It does not seem to matter how 'seasoned' the musician is. Whenever I run a click to their headphones its like they immediately grow a bicycle helmet and I get scared that they're going to start flinging feces around the room.

As a musician/engineer myself, I never have been able to figure out what is so damned hard about playing to a click track!

Very frustrating session tonight!!!

PhilE · 18th September 2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

It does not seem to matter how 'seasoned' the musician is. Whenever I run a click to their headphones its like they immediately grow a bicycle helmet and I get scared that their going to start flinging feces around the room.

As a musician/engineer myself, I never have been able to figure out what is so damned hard about playing to click track!

Very frustrating session tonight!!!

LOL- hahaha

I'm not going to look my client in the face without seeing Cartman in the 'special olympics' episode tomorrow now!

flail19 · 18th September 2007, 03:21 AM

Have you ever had them try playing with a loop? Clicks are sterile and intimidating. You might as well have a nun standing there with a hard wooden ruler ready to slap the drummer’s hand a t every little variance. Yeah, try the loop.

Chrizcol · 18th September 2007, 03:21 AM

Its a special skill that isn't commonly learnt/taught.
I teach all of my guitar students metronome accuracy. "Lock in you bastards."

allencollins · 18th September 2007, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

It does not seem to matter how 'seasoned' the musician is. Whenever I run a click to their headphones its like they immediately grow a bicycle helmet and I get scared that they're going to start flinging feces around the room.

As a musician/engineer myself, I never have been able to figure out what is so damned hard about playing to a click track!

Very frustrating session tonight!!!

That's weird most of the guys I record ask to play to a click. Sure Ive tracked some
teenage punk bands that could'nt do it but all the Metal heads these days are seasoned players and love the click. I have recorded a couple cheezy Tom Petty/pearl Jam style bands that weren't talented enough for the click but i doubt the people who listen to that simplton shit would notice the timing anyhow.

That's why I like recording metal bands they know the deal and are serious musicans and like the click and they play tight.

ahhh Just turn your grid and snap on and start pasting............

bcgood · 18th September 2007, 03:33 AM

manthe · 18th September 2007, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcgood

HA!!!

This ones getting printed, framed and hung over the drum kit!!!!

I REALLY needed that!

PS - I don't think a loop would have worked too well....the drummer was the main culprit!

excellent work...I love it!

bcgood · 18th September 2007, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

HA!!!

This ones getting printed, framed and hung over the drum kit!!!!

I REALLY needed that!

PS - I don't think a loop would have worked too well....the drummer was the main culprit!

excellent work...I love it!

Hey thanks, (It was like a 2 minute job : )

Glad you liked it buddy!

dokushoka · 18th September 2007, 03:55 AM

Yeah it seems like click tracks really bring on the pressure.

I find that just dropping in samples of like a shaker, tambo, or even a hi hat all with accents are much more comfortable for people to play along with.

manthe · 18th September 2007, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dokushoka

Yeah it seems like click tracks really bring on the pressure.

I find that just dropping in samples of like a shaker, tambo, or even a hi hat all with accents are much more comfortable for people to play along with.

I agree, actually. Believe it or not, that is what I did. I have a bunch of samples that I can trigger with my metronome. Every one agreed on a hi hat for 1, and a wood block for 2, 3, 4. By the end of the evening, they were starting to settle in, but we go nothing keep-able in almost 5 hours.

They're back in tomorrow night...hopefully they'll pick right up and nail it. I have a lot of patience while in session. i use my soft, inside voice and offer only commiseration and words of encouragement. Inside, sometimes, I feel like bouncing my heavy-assed, torque drum-key off of somebody's skull!

andychamp · 18th September 2007, 04:36 AM

Those drummers who can play to, with and around a clicktrack usually ask for one by themselves.
The others are either natural talents or have to live with their sloppy timing and their bandmates' reactions. I usually suggest they learn the skill during preproduction. After that it's N.M.P.

stellar · 18th September 2007, 04:49 AM

it could be that you need a better click or you are setting it up wrong. its not necessarily as intuitive as you might think?

bcgood · 18th September 2007, 04:54 AM

Hey Manthe, never mind that guy. He's what we call, "special."

Just kidding...

samwinston123 · 18th September 2007, 06:10 AM

Some people just "march to a different drummer". And in some cases that drummer is a retarded ADD child.

As a drummer who has (in my opinion) good timing, it makes me cringe internally every time I get one of "those" drummers in the studio. I start to freak out a little bit if it's really bad and/or goes on for a long time.

richiepalooza · 18th September 2007, 06:36 AM

When you can buy a drum machine for $80. brand new, there's no excuse not to be able to groove with a click! No excuse at all. . .

travisbrown · 18th September 2007, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

PS - I don't think a loop would have worked too well....the drummer was the main culprit!

That's when I find a loop or simple drum program works best. Once the drum tracks are done, I usually switch back to a click for timing during tacet sections or lead-ins for overdubbing other instruments.

I best like working with bands that don't need clicks. If we are syncing stuff up after I'll create a tempo map in DP5.

planet red · 18th September 2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samwinston123

Some people just "march to a different drummer". And in some cases that drummer is a retarded ADD child.

I've recorded that drummer..

drBill · 18th September 2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

It does not seem to matter how 'seasoned' the musician is. Whenever I run a click to their headphones its like they immediately grow a bicycle helmet and I get scared that they're going to start flinging feces around the room.

You're working with the wrong musicians then. In my experience, great players tend to love having the click up loud in their phones.

grammo76 · 18th September 2007, 09:08 AM

I was asked to remix a cd for a local rock band recently. These guys went on about how "awesome" their drummer was, and how serious they were about their music. These guys had all their pro tools data files so i figured this should be easy... So i got the data loaded into pro tools and the drummer absolutely sucked. He must must have changed 30 bpm between verse to bridge to chorus and back. It was so bad that i thought maybe just maybe they did it on purpose. So i mentioned the tempo change, and they had no idea what i was talking about. I tried beat detective and it replied "yeah right", and locked up...:op. So i turned them down, said i couldn't help them.

Do you guys keep a session drummer on speed dial for your studio?

vernier · 18th September 2007, 09:21 AM

For people uncomfortable with a click ...tell them to imagine a guy standing there hitting a cow bell.

Slaytex · 18th September 2007, 01:05 PM

I can play with a click, but I can't groove to a click (I'm getting much better though). I tend to use a VSTi (Groove Agent) for my click as it locks to the sessions tempo and sounds like a real kit. The other musicians seem to prefer it as well. I guess it's just more natural.

I'm weird though because I record my drums last.

jeronimo · 18th September 2007, 01:20 PM

As a drummer and engineer myself, I'm very confortable playing to a click track.
I track all kinds of drummers here in my studio, from the best rock/metal drummers in my area to the worst punk/alternative around...
I divide'em in 3 options:
1. really sloppy dummers who has no notion of timming neither technique.
2. drummers who has a technique, knows what they want to do but doesn't practice to a click track.
3. drummers who are 100% confortable with a click and know what they can or can't do.
I get 50% of option 1 and 30% of option 2... you get the idea.

Don S · 18th September 2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

It does not seem to matter how 'seasoned' the musician is. Whenever I run a click to their headphones its like they immediately grow a bicycle helmet and I get scared that they're going to start flinging feces around the room.

As a musician/engineer myself, I never have been able to figure out what is so damned hard about playing to a click track!

Very frustrating session tonight!!!

A good musician will welcome or demand a steady tempo. The only time I've found it gets funky is when there is an uneven rit. already printed in the click.

slick0 · 18th September 2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planet red

I've recorded that drummer..

...huh? That drummer? I'm sorry to break the news to you, but I'm sure there's more than one of these guys.

There goes another one.

PhilE · 18th September 2007, 01:39 PM

A lot of you guys are talking sh!t. Sorry but yes good metal players like a click and the very rhythm based people tend to like it and know about it but when you start talking about singer songwriters with an acoustic gtr etc a lot of VERY good people dont like the click cos they spend so much of their life in free time.

Of cause there are a lot of good musicians who like click but it would be plain wrong to think that because someone is harder to work with as an eng/producer that they are not as good.
I have worked with some awesome bands who have needed coaching on to the click or a loop programming up, or reminding to tune the snare back up, check the gtr tuning, steam and warm up before vocals, change strings etc etc etc... thats as much our job as picking the mics, to be on top of that shit but as the original poster said- why is it that you put a click into headphones and people crunch their faces up and have to concentrate SO hard! Even the best guys I've worked with (who btw are platinum selling artists in some cases) have had that 'special' look drift over their faces and they playing goes to hell for a minute while they try to lock in.

PhilE · 18th September 2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcgood

Amazing!

gollumsluvslave · 18th September 2007, 02:05 PM

I like playing to a click, but in a possible oddity like the click to be double what I'm playing, and with recognisable accents.

If I'm playing 8ths, then I like the click to be 16ths, etc etc.

Probably a big no no, but it works for me!

manthe · 18th September 2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilE

...have had that 'special' look drift over their faces and they playing goes to hell for a minute while they try to lock in.

"'special' look" = YES, thats it!

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18th September 2007, 02:50 AM	#1
manthe Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 1,751	Why does click track = bicycle helmet?? It does not seem to matter how 'seasoned' the musician is. Whenever I run a click to their headphones its like they immediately grow a bicycle helmet and I get scared that they're going to start flinging feces around the room. As a musician/engineer myself, I never have been able to figure out what is so damned hard about playing to a click track! Very frustrating session tonight!!! __________________ -Mike Manthe Moonface, LLC ------------------------- Moonface Records \| Studio \| Publishing \| My Web Site \| \| My Equipment List \|

18th September 2007, 03:21 AM	#3
flail19 Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 750	Have you ever had them try playing with a loop? Clicks are sterile and intimidating. You might as well have a nun standing there with a hard wooden ruler ready to slap the drummer’s hand a t every little variance. Yeah, try the loop. __________________ Singer, Songwriter, Musician.............Dad. "You're so money and you don't even know it!"

18th September 2007, 03:33 AM	#6
bcgood Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Coast Posts: 3,123	__________________ bcgood

18th September 2007, 03:55 AM	#9
dokushoka Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: San Francisco / L.A. Posts: 1,082	Yeah it seems like click tracks really bring on the pressure. I find that just dropping in samples of like a shaker, tambo, or even a hi hat all with accents are much more comfortable for people to play along with. __________________ San Francisco based Mixing and Production http://www.sfrecording.com

18th September 2007, 03:21 AM	#4
Chrizcol Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 317	Its a special skill that isn't commonly learnt/taught. I teach all of my guitar students metronome accuracy. "Lock in you bastards."

18th September 2007, 04:36 AM	#11
andychamp Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Basel, Switzerland Posts: 1,232	Those drummers who can play to, with and around a clicktrack usually ask for one by themselves. The others are either natural talents or have to live with their sloppy timing and their bandmates' reactions. I usually suggest they learn the skill during preproduction. After that it's N.M.P. __________________ André ________________________________________ "keep it simple. get it right in tracking. record good drummers in good rooms. cake." mixman499 "no room, no boom!" Michael Wagener "every song is different." Dave Pensado "God dammit man! Just try! The best way to micing is the way that u will like!!!"mat1306

18th September 2007, 04:49 AM	#12
stellar Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 588	it could be that you need a better click or you are setting it up wrong. its not necessarily as intuitive as you might think?

18th September 2007, 04:54 AM	#13
bcgood Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Coast Posts: 3,123	Hey Manthe, never mind that guy. He's what we call, "special." Just kidding... __________________ bcgood

18th September 2007, 06:10 AM	#14
samwinston123 Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 191	Some people just "march to a different drummer". And in some cases that drummer is a retarded ADD child. As a drummer who has (in my opinion) good timing, it makes me cringe internally every time I get one of "those" drummers in the studio. I start to freak out a little bit if it's really bad and/or goes on for a long time.

18th September 2007, 06:36 AM	#15
richiepalooza Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: san antonio,texas Posts: 304	When you can buy a drum machine for $80. brand new, there's no excuse not to be able to groove with a click! No excuse at all. . .

18th September 2007, 09:08 AM	#19
grammo76 Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Mid Southern USA Posts: 38	click horror stories I was asked to remix a cd for a local rock band recently. These guys went on about how "awesome" their drummer was, and how serious they were about their music. These guys had all their pro tools data files so i figured this should be easy... So i got the data loaded into pro tools and the drummer absolutely sucked. He must must have changed 30 bpm between verse to bridge to chorus and back. It was so bad that i thought maybe just maybe they did it on purpose. So i mentioned the tempo change, and they had no idea what i was talking about. I tried beat detective and it replied "yeah right", and locked up...:op. So i turned them down, said i couldn't help them. Do you guys keep a session drummer on speed dial for your studio? __________________ "If it sounds right, it's right"

18th September 2007, 09:21 AM	#20
vernier Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,674	For people uncomfortable with a click ...tell them to imagine a guy standing there hitting a cow bell. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/learstevens

18th September 2007, 01:05 PM	#21
Slaytex Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Charlotte Posts: 950	I can play with a click, but I can't groove to a click (I'm getting much better though). I tend to use a VSTi (Groove Agent) for my click as it locks to the sessions tempo and sounds like a real kit. The other musicians seem to prefer it as well. I guess it's just more natural. I'm weird though because I record my drums last. __________________ Clayton Yunt Full Volume Sound Full Volume Sound

18th September 2007, 01:20 PM	#22
jeronimo Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Salvador, BA - Brazil Posts: 2,536	As a drummer and engineer myself, I'm very confortable playing to a click track. I track all kinds of drummers here in my studio, from the best rock/metal drummers in my area to the worst punk/alternative around... I divide'em in 3 options: 1. really sloppy dummers who has no notion of timming neither technique. 2. drummers who has a technique, knows what they want to do but doesn't practice to a click track. 3. drummers who are 100% confortable with a click and know what they can or can't do. I get 50% of option 1 and 30% of option 2... you get the idea. __________________ Think Diferente! www.verticeestudio.com http://www.myspace.com/jelmet

18th September 2007, 01:39 PM	#25
PhilE Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,213	A lot of you guys are talking sh!t. Sorry but yes good metal players like a click and the very rhythm based people tend to like it and know about it but when you start talking about singer songwriters with an acoustic gtr etc a lot of VERY good people dont like the click cos they spend so much of their life in free time. Of cause there are a lot of good musicians who like click but it would be plain wrong to think that because someone is harder to work with as an eng/producer that they are not as good. I have worked with some awesome bands who have needed coaching on to the click or a loop programming up, or reminding to tune the snare back up, check the gtr tuning, steam and warm up before vocals, change strings etc etc etc... thats as much our job as picking the mics, to be on top of that shit but as the original poster said- why is it that you put a click into headphones and people crunch their faces up and have to concentrate SO hard! Even the best guys I've worked with (who btw are platinum selling artists in some cases) have had that 'special' look drift over their faces and they playing goes to hell for a minute while they try to lock in.

18th September 2007, 02:05 PM	#27
gollumsluvslave Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 188	I like playing to a click, but in a possible oddity like the click to be double what I'm playing, and with recognisable accents. If I'm playing 8ths, then I like the click to be 16ths, etc etc. Probably a big no no, but it works for me!