Is Everyone Having Problems With Their Profire Lightbridege? READ THIS!!

[naethoven]

Hi,
I wrote an email to m-audio today expressing all our frustrations with the PFLB. (Clicks, pops, drop-outs, error messages, etc.) I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE QUICK AND SINCERE REPLY I RECIEVED! Calvin, at m-audio, wrote back and basically needs us to be VERY detailed and let him know all about our setups, routing, clockin setups, etc. and our specific issues that are attached to those specific setups. He seems sincere, so lets honor his willingness to help us! I know all of you are tired of having to "work around" the many issues. Below I have posted his email to me. Use this thread to post your particular setups and related issues with the Lightbridge. Maybe there is hope for this potentially amazing piece of gear that we've all invested time and money in!

And again, thank you Calvin.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Nathan,

Thank you for forwarding your concerns and making M-Audio aware of the gearslutz forum posts.
Is this the link in question: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/134170-help-my-profire-lightbirdge.html

There are several people complaining about pops n clicks, but nobody is very clear on their setup and how everything is sync’d.
IRQ’s, and built-in firewire are common problems. One user who said he could only get it to work when the PFLB was the master clock, posted an update that connecting to a PCI FW card allowed him to use his Apogee as the master clock and has definitely helped the performance of the device.
He did say he still gets occasional sync issues and Pro Tools errors. There are a couple of users who have said they have exchanged multiple times, but again, they don’t provide any details about their problems.

We have seen these “pops and clicks” issues and “CPU overload” with devices that have massive IRQ conflicts, we have seen dropouts with devices if user’s have double powered the device, if the customers are using built-in Firewire ports instead of PCI or PCMCIA Firewire cards, or if they are using a Dual Core processor without installing the Windows Hotfix. All of these problems (and their concurrent solutions) are not unique to the ProFire, but can exist with any Pro Audio Firewire device that is plagued by the issues of low bandwidth with a built in Firewire port, IRQ sharing, incorrect clock settings, incorrect driver versions, incorrect application settings, Dual Core processor machines without the Dual Core hotfix applied…etc.

Also, the Profire Lightbridge by design offers a lot of audio flexibility and multiple I/O’s; which can; very well, be resource intensive for most computers.
However, due to the fact that nobody has provided enough information, it’s difficult to say it’s the PFLB’s problem and not a fault in their sync chain.

Please provide your specific systems information, configuration, and sync chain signal flow.
M-Audio Technical Services appreciates the opportunity to support you.

We do care about our customers

Kind regards,

Calvin

Calvin Banks
Technical Services Manager
M-AUDIO, Inc. --- An AVID Technology Company
calvinb@m-audio.com
Office: 626-633-9050 x225

Avid • digidesign • M-Audio • Evolution • Ableton • Wizoo • iZotope • GForce
Avid • Digidesign • M-Audio

[superkev07]

I'll add that when I first set up my Lightbridge, I was having popping issues, too. My call to M-Audio tech support was (surprisingly, since they're in the same family as Digi) answered quickly and painlessly. I told the guy what was up, and he suggested I try unplugging the power cord (the "double power" issue noted above), and sure enough, that fixed it. The call was so quick, I almost felt like I had unfinished business as I hung up. Almost like, "Wait, surely I need to be on the phone with this guy another 20 minutes, right?"

[naethoven]

GREAT! Any body else? Surely that's not the only issue.

[naethoven]

bump

[Rufuss Sewell]

I've been running pretty smoothly with:

2x Rosetta 800's > Lightbridge, clocked by Big Ben > Logic 7 (and now Logic 8) on a dual 2.5ghz G5 with 4.5GB ram.

The only problem I have is 2 or 3 times a day the audio will "skip." This will happen in Logic. iTunes, on the web... anything. It basically plays a tiny snippet of audio over the top of it's self and slightly delayed. There might be two or three delays. I'd really like it to stop.

[gabehr]

I had a bunch of problems. First off, I was getting pops and clicks when connecting through the built-in firewire port on my PC. Getting a PCI card fixed that. Having a second firewire device on the same card was also causing issues. Moving the second device to the built-in firewire fixed that.

Then I was having syncing issues over both SPDIF and ADAT. Switching to Word Clock has made syncing rock solid.

I also had the CPU overload issue. Unplugging the AC power (and just letting it be bus powered over firewire) fixed that.

So, long story short, I had lots of fun with my PFLB but in the end I still like it a good deal. Those fixes listed above can make a huge difference in how well it works.

[gurubuzz]

I used a PCI Firewire from word go as the inbuilt one wouldn't work at all...

I have had no problems since and I use it with a Mackie D8b with no problems
syncing to Adat 1.

I had huge issues with a Tascam 1884 and I never tried to get a PCI Firewire...as the previous owner had issues I blamed the 1884 ..I am now convinced that it was my in built fire wire that was the problem...I'm sorry I got rid of it.


EDIT Sunday, nov 16th 2008

We went to buy a Plasma screen on Saturday, came home and did some research on a Samsung screens that we set our minds on.

What bad reviews, people bleeding from their bad experience and other people recommending those bleeding people to steer clear of
Samsung and only buy Panasonic or Pioneer.

It seemed like the whole world had bad experiences with Samsung... in reality it was only 3 or 4 threads but it seemed so bad.

We went to the store and asked a different sales guy what about this Panasonic which was nearly 30% more expensive and he said
the Samsung is a much better TV, he went on...the build quality, the picture, even the paintwork and the strength of the plastic
panels. He then showed us the stats on his computer of the returns of other brands and Samsung and even though they move many more samsungs the other brands had many more come backs and warranty issues.

he went on to explain that Samsung had early teething problems but now are the most reliable Plasma screen.. So we bought it...


The moral is that the ones who are hurt by products screem and yell and cry their poor little hearts out very loudly, genuinely justified, and give a certain model a bad name and people who read posts by these people get scared and make their choice out of fear....

Fear is not a good place to start from...

So READER BEWARE.....

People who bled have big long tales about how much it hurt and how many millilitres of blood was spilled and they go on and on about
how far the blood spread and then about the infection and how the antibiotics didnt work and how they finally had to amputate and dicard the rotten limb and how painful it was and they tell you to be carefull and .......

BUT like me there are plenty of people out there using this product with ample joy and running their whole studio around it.

Good luck

and PM me if you want to know what system I am Running I will be more than happy to share my experiences.

And BTW since my first post I upgraded computers and now run glitch free daily with the onboard Firewire...

[naethoven]

Guys, thanks for your inputs and resolutions. Keep'em coming.

[TechKnowledgy]

Yeah, built in FireWire ports on PC's are almost never adequate for audio interfaces. The double powering is another cause of a variety of strange issues, pops, clicks, and crackles included.

Other FireWire devices on the same FW bus, including FW800 drivers, can cause problems. Again, get a FW expansion card.

Here's the Dual-Core HotFix mentioned:

M-AUDIO - Knowledge Base

[Bierce85]

I just fixed my whole Lightbridge Issue yesterday...

I was getting clicks and pops, and often the audio would drop out entirely, then come back, then drop out, ect..

So finally after trying everything, the guy from M-audio told me to disable my network adapter and BINGO! Rock solid ever since!

Hope this helps someone. M-Audio really needs to put more info on their site about the Lightbridge/PC thing. You can tell when you call their CS that they try to encourage you not to call them (..if you're hearing this message repeat, try our website..) If they'd just put whatever list of problems/solutions the tech guy you're talking to has access to on their website we wouldn't have to call!!

[lozion]

Here's my mobile recording set-up:

-Macbook Pro 2.16g/2g ram/100g 7200HD
-500G OWC eSATA enclosure with Expresscard
-4X Presonus Firestation AD/DA (ADAT)
-TC Electronic M-One (Spdif)

Lightbridge is set to master and sends WC to the Firestations.
On a whole, its been pretty solid except once in a while, the M-one loses its clock as its spdif only, no WC. I've just got a Dramwer compressor that has a Spdif out + BNC for WC so will test that..

Btw, I'm using this with Pro tools MP7.3.1cs2 and I love the expression on the face of production managers that I work with when I tell them I'll record 34 tracks st8 in PT...

PS: Definately separate your external drives from the firewire bus... eSATA rocks!

[naethoven]

bump

[travisbrown]

I'm on PFLB # 3 right now and taking it back to the dealer tomorrow, and going to wait for the Presonus version.

I spent time every day for a week with M-Audio tech support (who are generally helpful) trying every conceivable setup. They finally said to send it back and they'd replace it.

The first one was horrible - clicks and pops everywhere. I borrowed #2 while waiting for #3 to come as a replacement for #1. #2 and #3 were much better, but I couldn't get through a song without a couple clicks, and generally when they started, they got worse.

M-Audio can say that this can happen with other FW devices, but the thing is, it generally doesn't. And one shouldn't have to do things like disabing networking or set the clock back 22 minutes, or face the monitor southeast. I've had 2 MOTU 828MKIIs and a MOTU 896 daisychained with a hard drive in tow, and working flawlessly. Before that I had a couple MOTU 828s and they worked without a hitch. I've use a pair of Presonus Firepods, and they were fine. And I've used FW-enabled Tascam and Mackie Onyx consoles. Everytime I've had a clock issue, it takes 30 seconds to rectify.

Even at its simplest setup it exhibited the same issues:

DP5 on Mac 12" G4 Powerbook 1.25gb <--> PFLB <--> HD24
DP5 on PowerMac G5 2gb <--> PFLB <--> HD24

Bus powered, tried both PFLB and HD24 as clock master, tried clocking though WORD, SPDIF & optical.

[naethoven]

Well said Travis, we should not have to jump through hoops to get it to work. That's why I started this thread.


Calvin, can you help this guy out??

[naethoven]

Hey guys, when you post your issues with the PFLB, BE SURE to include very detailed info about your setup: sample rate, bit depth, bus or ac powered, OS version, driver version, if any FW drives are connected at the time, processor speed and computer specs, if the issues are dependent on the number of tracks/plugs etc., signal chain of clocking, signal chain of audio, and anything else you can include. It's worth it to figure out what the deal is with these machines.

And by all means, continue to contact M-Audio tech support with your questions AND post them here!!

Good luck ,
Nathan

[audiograph]

As Nathan mentioned, it is important to provide detailed information about your setup and problem when reporting an issue. Pops, clicks, and dropouts can be caused by a variety of things, and these details can help identify the cause. On PC’s, often times many issues with FireWire audio devices in general can be fixed by connecting your device to a FireWire expansion card with a Texas Instruments (TI) chipset; these expansion cards can provide a solution for IRQ conflicts and make up for deficiencies in the on board FireWire. On a Mac, a FireWire expansion card alleviates problems caused by connecting FireWire hard drives to the same FireWire bus (including FW800) the Lightbridge is connected to.

I am contacting travisbrown privately to assist with troubleshooting his issues as I am unable to make any specific suggestions with the information available at this time. Any solutions will be reported back to this thread. We are in the process of compiling information to create some additional troubleshooting resources to be posted on our Knowledge Base.

All the best,

Calvin

[naethoven]

Hey, does any one have any info on FW cards? What brand, where to get them, how much they cost, which brand works the best for the money? Also, I actually need a PCIe version FW card, and the only one I have seen is around $80.

The reason I ask is, someone mentioned buying a FW card for $15 bucks and said it pretty much cured his issues. I'm assuming it was PCI, but I need PCIe.

Any suggestions on FW cards?

Calvin thanks a lot, I know we can count on you!

[lozion]

Alright, now that everything seemed fine, saomething had to happen right?
I dont have input anymore on my spdif left channel. I've troubleshooted to a ertain extent and I believe I have a faulty coax cable in the breakout minisnake.
My local M-Audio rep gave me this #: 1-866-872-0444
Will try today to contact tech support and let you know,

[ctms777]

about everyhalf hour I get a pop (it sounds more like a tick actually) that's not very loud, sounds like an old record. It's quite anoying, but it doesn't seem to get recorded.
My Setup is;

Macbook Pro 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM
Sil 3132 SATAlink Controller
Glyph Technologies GT050Q 500gb connected through eSATA
Profire Lightbridge on Firewire 400 port of Macbook Pro and clocked to Yamaha 01v96 via ADAT
Native Instruments Kore on left USB-port
Line6 PodXT on Hub on right USB-port (USB rarely used)
Eagic AMT-8 on Hub on right USB-port (USB rarely used)
Yamaha 01v96 on Hub on right USB-port (USB rarely used)
Airport might be on or off, never thought it might be the problem so didn't notice it's status
Cubase 4.03
NI Komplete
Protools M-Powered 7.3.1cs1

Thanks Calvin for posting here!


Btw. I never had problems with Protools Techsupport (through amptec.be), in fact I call them a lot and they never get tired of my stupid questions, but at the Studio where I work we do have two HD3 Accel systems and a 64 fader Icon

[naethoven]

Hey ctms777,

If you have a method of clocking with wordclock, you should try it instead of clocking w/ADAT and see if it eliminates the tick you get every 30 min. I don't know but it seems like people have had better luck with WC than ADAT clocking.

Nathan

[ctms777]

Thanks, cool, I will try that!

And report back my findings.

[TechKnowledgy]

Compatible FireWire 400 Adapter Cards

[naethoven]

bump

[Blackwater]

You never know. Some people have good luck with it. I think the problem lies with Clocking from an external source but that is purely my opinion. When I tried clocking internally things seemed a bit better but not cured by any means and who wants to clock with their clock anyway. I guess if it's your only choice maybe then. I switched to clocking everything from an external clock before getting rid of the lightbridge and still had major issues. Then I went with the RME card and haven't had any problems for months now. And BTW when I went out and bought a firewire card this did not help at all. I hate to say it but
dfegadM-Audio.

[naethoven]

Any response from M-Audio on that one?

[TechKnowledgy]

Connecting the power supply can be bad, it damage the unit. Also, on board FireWire is hit or miss. I've read on a lot of forums that it doesn't really play well with audio interfaces, especially ones that needs as much bandwidth as the Lightbridge. So many people have reported that getting a FireWire card with a Texas Instruments (TI) chipset has cleared up a lot of problems they had when using the built-in ports.

[ctms777]

Clocking with wordclock actually made things worse, but switching back to adat made the pops disapear for a couple of hours, so that seems to be the solution.

I think I can live with it now. It's a great box when it works.

[naethoven]

DivineChemical,
That's great you have no troubles so far! Keep us posted so we can all continually learn. I just ordered a FW card to see if it will help my particular situation, so I'll let you guys no something soon. Should be here any day now.

Good luck everyone, and don't forget to CONTACT M-AUDIO TECH SUPPORT (YOU CAN USE THE INFO GIVEN AT THE TOP OF THIS THREAD) AND HAVE ALL (*ALL!!*) THE DETAILED INFO ABOUT YOUR SETUP INCLUDING OS SYSTEM, DRIVER INFO, SYNC AND AUDIO SIGNAL CHAIN, COMPUTER SPECS, AND SPECIFICS ABOUT THE ISSUES AND UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES THEY OCCUR. *IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO HAVE ALL THIS INFO FOR M-AUDIO TECH SUPPORT*

They said they'd be glad to help, so let's take them up on that offer!

Nathan

[Blackwater]

Good idea. Hopefully you didn't loose too much on that "Piece O' crap".
Check out an RME card as well as the Presonus.

[Blackwater]

Originally Posted by naethoven

DivineChemical,
That's great you have no troubles so far! Keep us posted so we can all continually learn. I just ordered a FW card to see if it will help my particular situation, so I'll let you guys no something soon. Should be here any day now.

Good luck everyone, and don't forget to CONTACT M-AUDIO TECH SUPPORT (YOU CAN USE THE INFO GIVEN AT THE TOP OF THIS THREAD) AND HAVE ALL (*ALL!!*) THE DETAILED INFO ABOUT YOUR SETUP INCLUDING OS SYSTEM, DRIVER INFO, SYNC AND AUDIO SIGNAL CHAIN, COMPUTER SPECS, AND SPECIFICS ABOUT THE ISSUES AND UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES THEY OCCUR. *IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO HAVE ALL THIS INFO FOR M-AUDIO TECH SUPPORT*

They said they'd be glad to help, so let's take them up on that offer!

Nathan

They helped me. They helped me realize that every one else is to blame for "ALL" the problems with their product. This product has issues!! Just my experience and alot of others now too.