What's the deal with Naiant Studio Microphones?

[sluttygearhere]

I mean what's going on here? Has anyone actually used these things? Are they worth a crap, or not even that much? It seems like more and more I keep seeing people swearing by them in more and more threads, but the way they say it seems just really off. It just seems like someone trying to sell some garbage to me. Am I way off on this or what? I mean I willing to give anything a chance, but I just haven't heard of them or anything about them or know anyone who has used them. Any thoughts?

-- Ben

[Rick Shepherd]

I have heard quite a few sample recordings on other forums. To me they are just another cheap mic to add to the long list of cheap mics.

[sluttygearhere]

That's kinda what I thought. I mean there is not way a 30 dollar mic is going to compete with an earthworks or something like that, or even Shure, or Rode for the matter. If that was the case everyone would be buying them like crazy right? Every time I see someone pushing them in a thread it makes me feel like I am at Guitar Shack and some guy is trying to sell me a Berhinger condenser mic as the greatest thing in the world.

[kmade]

yeah there cheap mics but for the price I like and use mine . and the just look cool all small funky JMO

[Notron Fan]

I have a "matched pair" of the msh-1's. It's a $25 mic made up of parts that have been used in much more expensive mics.

For example the electret element is a panasonic design that I think has been used in $250 crown pzm mics.

Of course the element itself costs about $1.

So yeah, it's a cheap and cheerful electret omni that won't sound as good as better mics, but its clearly a better deal than say an ecm8000 from behringer.

It's also somewhat disposable. I'll save the schoeps for special occasions and use these when I'm just messin around.

[Harvey Gerst]

Here's a sample of the Naiant mic sound:

MSH-4 Tube mic test - Home Recording dot com BBS

We have about 4 sets of the MSH-1O's.

[Todd24]

I would say that given the price, You should try one your self.

I have a set of omnis, I would recomend them.

[Harvey Gerst]

We use the Naiant MSH1O as drum overheads and they work very well there.

[Ironklad Audio]

why not just spend the $25 and try one out?

you might be surprised.

[Jonboy79]

I have a pair for overheads. I liked them so much I sold my ksm109's. There was really very little difference in the end result and since I'm just a home studio guy and working in a less than stellar room they fit my needs perfectly. As cheap as they are I don't see what can hurt in having a pair.

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by sluttygearhere

That's kinda what I thought. I mean there is not way a 30 dollar mic is going to compete with an earthworks or something like that, or even Shure, or Rode for the matter. If that was the case everyone would be buying them like crazy right? Every time I see someone pushing them in a thread it makes me feel like I am at Guitar Shack and some guy is trying to sell me a Berhinger condenser mic as the greatest thing in the world.

This is ridiculous. You'll take one guys somewhat negative statement over all the other posts of people praising them. Seems like you just started this thread to be negative, kinda pointless if you ask me.

[manning1]

slutty.
go talk to a physics prof sometime about the technology behind a mic.
its no big deal.
i always remain open minded.
cos sometimes a piece of gear surprises me.
you can actually buy panasonic mic capsules from electronic distributors n find schematics on the web for makeing your own mic. for 20 buks.
theres something bout building your own gear.
a sense of accomplishment plus its fun.

by the way.to the naint users.
are they any good for vocs ?? n guitar amps ??
anyone got any examples ??
cos i'm interested.

[drycounty]

As another user's sig file once said "no one asks for advice, only corroboration." Anyone else notice that about 90-95% of posts inquiring on any piece of gear usually has some underlying, overt negativity or positivity running throughout the "question"? Same here.

Slutty -- buy one. Be open minded. If you don't like it, Jon offers something like a 14-day return policy. He's a real nice guy to boot. I tried out a pair of the NSH-1s and preferred my Stapes Omnis, but for $50 a pair, why the hell not try them out? I did, and I returned them for one of his newer transformer-based NSH-4T. Haven't tested it yet, but I'm sure I'll like it on some things.

[Harvey Gerst]

Actions speak louder than words, so here's a sample of the Naiant MSH-1O's in action as overheads. The group is Spoonfed Tribe and you can really hear the cymbals around 2:00 minutes into the song. The flute was recorded with the MXL V67g:

I Thought I Killed Her - Spoonfed Tribe

[dlmorley]

Very nice Harvey.
I like the guitar sound...a lot.
What else was on the drums?

[Subsonic808]

The Naiant mics are a killer deal. I own a bunch of them. They are so tiny that they can be used in tight spots where other mics would never fit.
The MSH1Os are great drum OHs. We compared them to a wide selection of other SDCs including Schoeps CMC5s and Neumann KM84s and they performed pretty well. Nobody would have guessed that these mics cost about 1/50th of the price of the Schoeps.
I also used them on guitar cabs and as a really close mic on foley footsteps.
The cardioids can sound cool as tom and snare mics, but they have a very special sound. I like the as second mics with a dynamic.
The MSH4 tube mic is nice too. It is nice on acoustic instruments, especially guitar.
They really need good pres though, and using them on quiet sources is no a good idea, since they are a bit noisy.

[bcgood]

This recording was made from my custom binaural head with MSH-1s. This was actually one of the first binaural recordings that I ever made.

bcgood_binaural.wav

[sluttygearhere]

Originally Posted by drycounty

As another user's sig file once said "no one asks for advice, only corroboration." Anyone else notice that about 90-95% of posts inquiring on any piece of gear usually has some underlying, overt negativity or positivity running throughout the "question"? Same here.

Slutty -- buy one. Be open minded. If you don't like it, Jon offers something like a 14-day return policy. He's a real nice guy to boot. I tried out a pair of the NSH-1s and preferred my Stapes Omnis, but for $50 a pair, why the hell not try them out? I did, and I returned them for one of his newer transformer-based NSH-4T. Haven't tested it yet, but I'm sure I'll like it on some things.

I really wasn't trying to be negative about it. It's just that the few people I have heard talk about them, the way they were saying it sounded like the people who push gear because they get some kind of benefit from it reading the responses on this thread I see that I am probably mistaken in thinking that. I was just skeptical, cause to me even 25 dollars is a lot right now and if they were just total crap then I wouldn't even bother with trying them out and would save that 25 dollars to get something better. But in response to the things I am reading here on this thread it sounds like they are at least halfway decent so I think I might get a pair and try them out. I do a lot of ceremony type recordings for a videographer on the side to make some extra cash and I am always looking for a small mic that picks up great and sounds good. I really was trying to have an open mind about it. I am generally always willing to give any kind of gear a shot. Sorry if I came off overly Negative.

Thanks for all the replies though.

-- Ben

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

Very nice Harvey.
I like the guitar sound...a lot.
What else was on the drums?

Pretty standard setup for our Studio A drums:
Kick: D112
Snare: MXL991 and Shure SM57
Toms: 504D's/E604's
Overheads: Naiant MSH-1O

Guitar was recorded into a Marshall amp with 4x12" Celestion Greenbacks - miked with a Heil PR-20, and an Oktava MC012 body with a Lomo 33mm M3 head.

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by sluttygearhere

It's just that the few people I have heard talk about them, the way they were saying it sounded like the people who push gear because they get some kind of benefit from it.

-- Ben

Why would I take a chance on ruining my reputation of 50+ years of being in this music business for a $25 mic - which I bought just like everybody else? Except for the MoreMe headphones I sell, I don't "push gear" for anyone.

[matskull]

Anybody tried those new tom mics?

[Bang then Alter]

I used a pair of the X-Q's as drum overheads and piano mics. We shot them out with KM-84's, and AKG 414 TL II's. We did a run with API 512's and another run straight through the AWS 900... all through Apogee AD16X's. The tracking room was professionally designed and sounds excellent. The transient response and the overall clarity of the Naiants was unbelievable, and there was absolutely no contest. Lots of people who don't have good training or excellent gear make the dumbest responses on this website, and I can tell you that for $32 each you might as well not waste the time listening to examples and just buy them and try them. If $32 is too much for you, then there are a lot more things you should be worrying about.

[GZsound]

I'll add my two cents as a satisfied Naiant owner. I have used mine with great results on acoustic instruments like guitars, mandolin, and even upright bass.

A very usable mic for very little money.

[Corran]

I guess you missed all the posts in Low-End Theory? They are generally regarded as really good mics for all kinds of things, especially as a starter mic since they are so cheap.

I have two X-Qs as well as 3 Earthworks QTC-1s. I can tell you they compare pretty well. Are they as good? No, but I would hope not.

The only real problem with them is the self-noise is really high. So you've got to be careful what you record.

[Bang then Alter]

Or perhaps it's your M-Audio interface that's creating the self-noise.

[Corran]

Who's M-audio interface?

[j_m_cone]

Originally Posted by sluttygearhere

I mean what's going on here? Has anyone actually used these things? Are they worth a crap, or not even that much? It seems like more and more I keep seeing people swearing by them in more and more threads, but the way they say it seems just really off. It just seems like someone trying to sell some garbage to me. Am I way off on this or what? I mean I willing to give anything a chance, but I just haven't heard of them or anything about them or know anyone who has used them. Any thoughts?

-- Ben

I'll return to the original thought here.

I'm responsible for making a lot of live performance recordings at a university's music recital hall, for the artists and for the public radio station where I work. Four important factors:
- There has been a history of theft of installed mics at the hall.
- For some reason, stage _feng_shui_ and performance choreography has become extremely important to many of the students and faculty. Sometimes (rarely) the performer(s) will be centered. More often, they will be any and everywhere else but. Normal center-oriented fixed miking just does not work.
- Setting stand mics onstage obstructs audience sight lines and the stage boxen are upstage where the performers have to trip over - and roll heavy equipment over - mic cables as they move themselves and their stuff on and off stage. (The definition of a small percussion kit is one that will fit into a single semi-trailer.)
- The hall has really superb acoustics for recording soloists and small ensembles. All things being equal, in the recital hall, I prefer the sound of one or more well-placed pairs of spaced omnis to practically any directional mic placement (and I've tried a lot).

The solution I've found is to hang an array of omnis from the catwalks and diffuser grid, such that there is usually an acceptably well-placed pair or two to be found anywhere musicians are likely to be found. An installed pair of semi-coincident miniature cards a bit upstage of the primary spaced omnis can be used to turn the main pair into a decca tree, or simply to extend the reach of the array farther upstage, if necessary. I often supplement the installed omnis (and semi-coincident pair) with a chorus line of boundary (floor) cardioids as flexible spot mics.(*) For the right performer(s) and performance, I'll go ahead and use a main pair of spaced omnis on stands on stage, relegating the installed mics to spot/supplementary duty.

Now, if I had my druthers, all my omnis would be matched pairs of MKH8020s, but I'm doing this out of my own pocket, and one pair of MKH8020s sucked all the lint out of my pockets. (I'm desperately in love with the sound of the -8020s on solo Steinway D model, and they are _real_ nice on string quartet with helper mics flanking the center-back of the ensemble.) If _you_ can afford to install a large number of MKH8020s, just _do_ it and stop reading this nonsense.

It turns out that the Naiant X-X with 10-foot leads and the high-output option (necessary both to drive long cables from the catwalks to the tech booth, and for their _much_ more generous max SPL capability) do really well in this application. Hanging from the catwalks 21 feet down to about 8 feet above the stage, they are nearly invisible to the audience. In a live performance setting (with people and HVAC system both active) the relatively high self-noise figure (21 dBA) is not a factor. The frequency response is ideal for normal classical music spaced-omni placement (5-10 feet from the source). Transient response is quite nice (thanks to the ultra-small diaphragms). A matched pair (including postage) is about $125. That's around 1/20 the price of matched MKH8020s. I can afford to install them and leave them. The sound is really quite nice. The station and the artists have no trouble using the recordings.

Would I use Naiant X-X mics in preference to Senn MKH8020s? Don't be ridiculous! Of _course_ I would, where using them would avoid the risk of losing the -8020s, or where I could not afford a sufficient number of -8020s to do the job correctly. Of course I _would_not_, in a studio or dedicated recording setting where mics can be placed optimally and both the mics and the performer can realistically be expected to stay put. _Maybe_ I would, if the small size and amazing mounting possibilities of the Naiant X-X allowed placement where the sound pressure level from a voice or instrument was at least 50-60 dB above the mic's self-noise level.

The bottom line is that you wouldn't be ashamed to have Naiant mics, or to use them where they are appropriate. No, they do not cost a lot. No, they do not sound cheap. Yes, if you put them where they need to be, you can get a fully professional sound out of them.

Mic placement on omnis is both more and less critical than on directional mics. No, there is no proximity effect in the microphone. Yes, there is an acoustic proximity effect from many acoustic sources - especially the human voice - so you _will_ notice increased bottom- and top-end in the sound when you close-mic with an omni. Use that to get the sound you like - or ignore it and hate the sound you get.

The transition from direct to reverberant field dominance seems to happen over a distance of just a few inches, but the transition zone may be a couple of yards from the source. Omni placement can be _ultra_ critical. That applies to Naiant mics just as it does to any other small-diaphragm omni. You cannot just throw them wherever, in front of whatever, and expect to get a nice sound. Finding the "sweet spot" for omnis can reduce you - and the performer - to tears, but once you find it, nothing else is as sweet. Even if you're using Naiants.

- John Cone
KRWG-FM Engineering

(*) Nobody asked, but CAD ST100 boundary cardioids are amazingly useful for live performance recording - and they can make tuned percussion sound better than you would believe.

[musical5]

Here's the org. omni mics on OH's.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...ship-stand.mp3

They work for me.

JJ