A Rant!!

[Kiwiburger]

Some mixed metaphors there. Can't say I agree with everthing. The internet and DIY recording may turn out to be a big stinking swamp that breeds millions of cookie-cutter, paint-by-numbers, bottom-feeding maggots.

Millions of kids will be able to call themselves engineers, because they can program generic beats with the same samples that everyone else is using.

IMO, the history of recording has shown that great music tends to be produced by a limited number of geniuses who have got together and laid aside there differences for long enough to make music that has a synergy and magic beyond what one person alone can do.

IMO, there are so many pieces that need to come together to make truely great music. Gear is definately a huge part that can't be ignored. It's just ignorant to try to devalue the importance of gear in a forum designed for discussing gear. I think everyone knows it's only a small part - but that small part can make or break a great recording.

Music goes around in fashions. We are seeing some great studios close down and disappear. The technology is changing, but it's really great people who make great music. Great artists are nothing without great producers and engineers behind them. I think a lot of time and money will be wasted by people trying to DIY and realising just how hard it is to try to do everything themselves, especially if they have a day job.

Intersting times ahead, I think.

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Some mixed metaphors there. Can't say I agree with everthing. The internet and DIY recording may turn out to be a big stinking swamp that breeds millions of cookie-cutter, paint-by-numbers, bottom-feeding maggots.

It's happenning now.

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

the history of recording has shown that great music tends to be produced by a limited number of geniuses who have got together and laid aside there differences for long enough to make music that has a synergy and magic beyond what one person alone can do.

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

It's just ignorant to try to devalue the importance of gear in a forum designed for discussing gear. I think everyone knows it's only a small part - but that small part can make or break a great recording.

So true.

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

I think a lot of time and money will be wasted by people trying to DIY and realising just how hard it is to try to do everything themselves, especially if they have a day job..

It was ever thus!

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Intersting times ahead, I think.

I think so...



Good post.

[HEADROOM]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Some mixed metaphors there. Can't say I agree with everthing. The internet and DIY recording may turn out to be a big stinking swamp that breeds millions of cookie-cutter, paint-by-numbers, bottom-feeding maggots.

Millions of kids will be able to call themselves engineers, because they can program generic beats with the same samples that everyone else is using.

IMO, the history of recording has shown that great music tends to be produced by a limited number of geniuses who have got together and laid aside there differences for long enough to make music that has a synergy and magic beyond what one person alone can do.

IMO, there are so many pieces that need to come together to make truely great music. Gear is definately a huge part that can't be ignored. It's just ignorant to try to devalue the importance of gear in a forum designed for discussing gear. I think everyone knows it's only a small part - but that small part can make or break a great recording.

Music goes around in fashions. We are seeing some great studios close down and disappear. The technology is changing, but it's really great people who make great music. Great artists are nothing without great producers and engineers behind them. I think a lot of time and money will be wasted by people trying to DIY and realising just how hard it is to try to do everything themselves, especially if they have a day job.

Intersting times ahead, I think.

I completely underline this statement....thanks for formulating my thoughts

[PoorGlory]

All I know is, I'm getting more work than I can handle at this point. Then again, recording is a side job for me. But I still have yet to break even on my gear investment, which at this point is significant.

In any case, I don't think we have anything to worry about. Good music will never go away completely and will always need to be recorded. There will always be a place for studios with nice big rooms. By the same token, there is no reason for an average, unsigned 4 piece punk band to have to spend 1000 a day to get an indie release recorded. Basement studios and small project rooms will be there to cater to that.

Either way, the finished product will always speak for itself.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Some mixed metaphors there. Can't say I agree with everthing. The internet and DIY recording may turn out to be a big stinking swamp that breeds millions of cookie-cutter, paint-by-numbers, bottom-feeding maggots.

Millions of kids will be able to call themselves engineers, because they can program generic beats with the same samples that everyone else is using.

IMO, the history of recording has shown that great music tends to be produced by a limited number of geniuses who have got together and laid aside there differences for long enough to make music that has a synergy and magic beyond what one person alone can do.

IMO, there are so many pieces that need to come together to make truely great music. Gear is definately a huge part that can't be ignored. It's just ignorant to try to devalue the importance of gear in a forum designed for discussing gear. I think everyone knows it's only a small part - but that small part can make or break a great recording.

Music goes around in fashions. We are seeing some great studios close down and disappear. The technology is changing, but it's really great people who make great music. Great artists are nothing without great producers and engineers behind them. I think a lot of time and money will be wasted by people trying to DIY and realising just how hard it is to try to do everything themselves, especially if they have a day job.

Intersting times ahead, I think.

Yeah... Heaven knows the "pros" never turn out any crap, huh?


People said the same thing about musicianship during the folk revival of the early 60s. All these people playing guitars are going to ruin music. Three chord wonders like that horrible Dylan guy or the rest of those damn hippies.

I say anything that helps break the hold of the Music Industrial Complex can't be all bad.


Frankly -- what I really find depressing is the number of studio owners and "engineers" using many tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear who not only make boring, cookie-cutter crap -- but who are strikingly ignorant, confused, or just plain full-of-it regarding the basic technologies they use every day.

[imdrecordings]

Originally Posted by teddy07x

I believe in making music that touches our hearts.

Is that all?
What about Fidelity?
What about Translation?
What about Longevity?
What about questioning your own "heart"?
What about growing with your music?
What about how fun it is to record or hearing the subtle and severe differences in gear?
What about the fun of finding just the right mic for the singer and the singer suddenly comes to life.
Surely there is more to life and music than emotion?

[wayne mox]

My fellow dudes and slutz, the days of that smooth sound are GOOOOOOONE. Long gooooone...... And it will never resurface. The boys who knew how to make the music, the guys who knew how to record it, and the equipment used is a bygone era. It's an equation of 3, and you'll never recreate it.

Think of this, ever since the Beatles laid down those tracks, thousands have tried to imitate their sound, and no one has nailed it. They took simple 4-tracks and made them sound like 64.

Lookit, you have to embrace what you have to work with now. If some idiot kid flashes the cash, then you better be there to grab it or else he goes off and becomes his own engineer/producer. We can cry cry cry all we want, but there's no freakin way the 80's, the 70's, the 60's will ever come back. Live in the present and look to the future. Peace.

[patrox247]

What's your point?

[DeathMonkey]

Originally Posted by imdrecordings

Is that all?
What about Fidelity?
What about Translation?
What about Longevity?
What about questioning your own "heart"?
What about growing with your music?
What about how fun it is to record or hearing the subtle and severe differences in gear?
What about the fun of finding just the right mic for the singer and the singer suddenly comes to life.
Surely there is more to life and music than emotion?

Isn't the point of all these things (and our jobs) to further the emotional impact of the song?


No. IMHO, there is nothing more to music than emotion and communication.

[JP11]

I like a good tune, maybe tap my foot or bounce my head or something...no big thing. I like a good rant, too, something I can shake my fist to...this one's alright for a lazy sunday afternoon, I guess...but I'm going to go outside (wish me luck).

[hle144]

Originally Posted by teddy07x

As I am not a pro,

I believe in making music that touches our hearts.

Thats where I stopped reading.

Whose heart? Music is subjective. Let them be the judge.

Bitch about something meaningful......Like gear.....tutt

[goldenlotus]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Great artists are nothing without great producers and engineers behind them.

Nothing? You've got to be kidding?

Coltrane, Gillian Welch, John Scofeild, Bill Frisell, Dylan are all examples among MANY others that production is not important in the larger picture.

[David Robinson]

what has all this got to do with art?

true art has nothing to do with the technology used to create it.

if you are a slave to this technology, you've caught the wrong bus (pun intended).

DR9.

[Kiwiburger]

Originally Posted by goldenlotus

Nothing? You've got to be kidding?

Coltrane, Gillian Welch, John Scofeild, Bill Frisell, Dylan are all examples among MANY others that production is not important in the larger picture.

Whose kidding who? Production and engineering is always important. The public don't buy crappy recordings.

A lot of artists may have released bad quality recordings, and there may still some value in them, especially for musicians and serious fans. But bad engineering and production never won any grammys or #1s.

The best Dylan songs were covers by other artists who had brilliant engineering and production. (Byrds, Manfred Man, Hendrix, etc, etc).

[HEADROOM]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

The public don't buy crappy recordings.

hm.....I have to disagree on this one I m afraid......at times they do....

very good example: "in the summertime - mungo jerry" sounds like shit but an evergreen nevertheless.....and dont forget a lot of the punk stuff...

[chrispick]

Originally Posted by David Robinson

true art has nothing to do with the technology used to create it..

Yeah, painting has nothing to do with paint brushes.

A Stradivarius is useless. Ask Yehudi. He's brilliant on a shoebox with a rubber band. He plays it into a cup with a string for all to hear.



Geez...



Look, good artists use the best tools they can get their hands on. Why wouldn't they?

This site is devoted to evaluation and discussion of some of those tools. We all know that artful music is the end; we're here to talk about some of the means by which we arrive there.



Oy...

[Kiwiburger]

Originally Posted by HEADROOM

hm.....I have to disagree on this one I m afraid......at times they do....

very good example: "in the summertime - mungo jerry" sounds like shit but an evergreen nevertheless.....and dont forget a lot of the punk stuff...

I think Summertime sounds magical, and I love the old punk stuff. Lofi sound and raw energy don't = crap in my book.

When I said "the public don't buy crap", I realised it would be misconstrued. But what I mean is there is a certain standard of production and engineering required just to get released. We've heard (or made) woeful demos and stuff that is just plain bad, and it will never see the light of day.

There are very few artists who are the full package. It's far more common to see long lists of credits on an album.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind could argue that gear, engineering and production aren't important. Sheer artistic talent on it's own is useless.

[HEADROOM]

ok misunderstood you...although I still think the performance is vital. A good sounding lousy performance is a dog. A magical performance with a mediocre sound at least has a chance.....

But you are right : Normally it takes both...

[imdrecordings]

Originally Posted by DeathMonkey

Isn't the point of all these things (and our jobs) to further the emotional impact of the song?


No. IMHO, there is nothing more to music than emotion and communication.

There's more to it....
There is another level, believe it or not.

[Deadmeat]

[quote=wayne mox;1446438]My fellow dudes and slutz, the days of that smooth sound are GOOOOOOONE. Long gooooone...... And it will never resurface. The boys who knew how to make the music, the guys who knew how to record it, and the equipment used is a bygone era. It's an equation of 3, and you'll never recreate it.quote]

Hmmmmm?

Glad no one told me this.

[mtstudios@charter]

Originally Posted by wayne mox

My fellow dudes and slutz, the days of that smooth sound are GOOOOOOONE. Long gooooone...... And it will never resurface.

I have heard recent recordings that IMO are smooth well recorded in the digital and analog world. They might just not be as popular as the Beatles. Past is always long gone, but quality is here and will stay. It might just be harder to find.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by David Robinson

what has all this got to do with art?

true art has nothing to do with the technology used to create it.

if you are a slave to this technology, you've caught the wrong bus (pun intended).

DR9.

How about this... the art comes from inside the artist (forgetting for a moment the muses, the divine, etc)... but he must use the technology he has -- or develop new technology -- to bring that art to life.

If you look at the history of art it is intertwined with the history of the development of technique and technique flows from the prodcuction media and its technology -- whether it's chisel and stone, pigment and oil, or ones and zeros.


As someone else may have said above (think I heard it somewhere recently)... technique and technology are the vessel and art is the precious content.

Without art, technique and technology are simply an empty container... but art without technique and technology to contain it, quickly flows away.

We need them both.

But I'll take pretty art in an ugly container over bad art in a bitchen container. Every time.

[firby]

Originally Posted by imdrecordings

Is that all?
What about Fidelity?
What about Translation?
What about Longevity?
What about questioning your own "heart"?
What about growing with your music?
What about how fun it is to record or hearing the subtle and severe differences in gear?
What about the fun of finding just the right mic for the singer and the singer suddenly comes to life.
Surely there is more to life and music than emotion?

Sorry man. There is nothing more to music than emotion.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/image...nu/yinyang.gif

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by firby

Sorry man. There is nothing more to music than emotion.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/image...nu/yinyang.gif

No offense... I'm certainly not one to slight the importance of emotion in music for most people... but to say there is nothing to music besides emotion seems absurdly reductive.

Music is fundamentally built on structure and form... even the music of the wind in the trees is musical because our mind perceives order and regularity in what might seem at first to be unordered chaos.

I've suggested this in a number of places -- it's my belief that the musical impulse -- which is not limited to humans -- is in the way our autonomic nervous system evolved in the natural world.

Regular sounds, the waves on the shore, the babbling of a brook on stones, the wind in the trees are reassuring sounds. But irregular sounds may be threats or prey.

The interplay of expectation and surprise are, I think, deeply intertwined in the development of our musical sense.

And order and interrelation within music is there in the fundamentals and has informed the evolution of human music.

Now, I think this relation to the autonomic nervous system is also what binds music to emotion -- but music as we understand it today certainly has many other components than strictly emotion -- certainly in the making of it but in the appreciation of it as well.

[UnDeFiNeD]

My fellow dudes and slutz, the days of that smooth sound are GOOOOOOONE. Long gooooone...... And it will never resurface.
Think of this, ever since the Beatles laid down those tracks, thousands have tried to imitate their sound, and no one has nailed it. They took simple 4-tracks and made them sound like 64.
Lookit, you have to embrace what you have to work with now. If some idiot kid flashes the cash, then you better be there to grab it or else he goes off and becomes his own engineer/producer. We can cry cry cry all we want, but there's no freakin way the 80's, the 70's, the 60's will ever come back. Live in the present and look to the future. Peace.

Damn, I'm I really the only one on this board who feels that we've evolved A LOT since the Beatles, I couldn't live with the decades without subbass, and low bandwidth recordings full of hiss. Surely the loudness-war is something to hate, but not everyone does it.
Maybe a lot of people should stop trying to recreate the Beatles' sound, for it to work u need..euhm...The Beatles! Imo they where a good beginning of modern music, but in 2007 most of their hits sound cliché and dull, allthough I really digg a handfull of them.

Electronic music has immensly enlarged our color palette beyond the typical guitar-bas-drum sound, and only now are people trying to use the best of those both worlds to create sounds that are out of this world, combined with our knowlidge we allready have of acoustic instruments and it's subtilities.
Hiphop has thought us that singing isn't the only way of using vocals, and that chant combined with rap can have an immensly rythmical, as well a musical inpact in music.

It's a post-modernistic plea, I know. But virtually all music u listen to is developped by crossbreading, as well as the techniques to record it. (who ever thought that close-micing folk could have great results for example?)

Today, the studio and the musician are closer together than ever, I released an album a few weeks back wich had songs, created in the DAW. 30yrs ago, who would have started to record full-lenght tapes with only one or two instruments, without even knowing what it would end up to be. The engineer/producer is rapidly becomming a part of the musicians now, and his fingerprint on the music is now bigger than ever.

So to sum it up, we have a much bigger colour palette of sound, better means, less trouble to do so, and gained a new type of musician in the group: the engineer...
Isn't it all better now than it used to be?? (and NO radio has never been a good way of judging if music is better now than before, radio and TV will allways vomit out crap, my proof? U people had ABBA on the radio before I was born!!)

Pzz!!

[imdrecordings]

Originally Posted by firby

Sorry man. There is nothing more to music than emotion.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/image...nu/yinyang.gif

I don't see why it's so hard for people to understand that there is much more to music and making music, than "emotional content".

Bruce Lee said, "We need emotional content". But he also understood that there were other things that are necessary or just as important.

[Vandergraf]

Originally Posted by imdrecordings

Bruce Lee said, "We need emotional content". But he also understood that there were other things that are necessary or just as important.

The kung foo guy?

[teddy07x]

my phone's been snatched. And this dick has logged in here and written some bullshit? heck, I dunno what this is.

[severe]

Originally Posted by teddy07x

my phone's been snatched. And this dick has logged in here and written some bullshit? heck, I dunno what this is.

Well.. that d*ck stirred up some sh*t.




...hope ya find your phone.