Mic Pres - 'A' sound, or variety??

[manthe]

I was just curious to see people's opinions on whether they prefer (in terms of Mic preamps) to pick a sound and keep it consistent throughout a song/project, or if you prefer to vary the sonic 'color'.

For instance (and perhaps this is more philosophical than technical), do you prefer to use all API/Neve/etc for micing drums, amps, vox...anything that gets mic'd (as well as any line signals like synths and/or DI stuff too.)? Or do you prefer to pick and choose from a variety of 'flavors' to suit a particular source?

I've always used a variety myself, but I am itching to try to put together a song (as an experiment at first), using one particular flavor. I have a few options. I am NOT a high-end shop. I am a home/project studio guy that does demos, V/O, mixing and writer/musician for hire services. I have a variety of pres. I also have a few 'sets' that would allow me to record a song with a consistent pre color. I am going to try to record the same song, twice (a very simple one) using both 'philosophies'.

This stems from some thoughts I've had lately about investing in some more, higher-end preamps. I am struggling with purchasing variety or uniform.

Any thoughts?

[tINY]

I get most of my sonic flavor from the mics I choose.



-tINY

[manthe]

That is true, but as an experiment, the other day, I plugged my RE20 into all 9 different 'flavors'/brands of Mic Pre/Channel strips that I own and the the resulting sound 'color' for each different one was quite vast. It proved to me that the preamp choice would make a HUUUUGE difference in the resulting track.

I have a fairly large choice of mics in my locker. I am blessed with options there as well. And, of course I do choose mics carefully, based on intended results. But the preamps make a huge difference as well.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by tINY

I get most of my sonic flavor from the mics I choose.



-tINY

[Unclenny]

It seems to me that sometimes too many choices can get in the way of capturing the music..

And.....I guess I like the continuity of sound throughout a project that comes from using the tried and true methods.

Listen to me (LOL).....I have a KSM32, a couple of 57's, a 609 and one decent channel strip.....all tried and true.

[tINY]

Older dynamic designs tend to get tne most differentiation out of mic pre-amps. when you run an LDC, the differences between pre-amps aren't as pronaounced....

..as long as they are just pre-amps with flat response from about 30Hz to 25kHz or so. A lot of times, there is an EQ curve built into boutique preamps. You can do that with a good parametric EQ - in the box even.




-tINY

[manthe]

Good point! A lot of my Pres are 'boutique' as well...at least the 'one-off' channel strip ones.

I have a set of 8, Transamp Valley People Preamps that are clean and 'transparent' (if a little punchy). Those tend not to impart too much sonic signature. I also have a group of discreet transistor Tascam pres that are very clean and quiet. They also impart little to no character. (I do not even bother to count the 8, built-in Presonus Digimax FS Preamps that I bought to give me an additional 8 ADAT LP recording channels for 'emergencies'...it isn't horrible, but it is a little disappointing when compared to higher-end stuff.)

My experiment would probably consist of me recording a song using all Valley Peoples, and then the same song using my variation of LA-610s, Tridents, Groove Tubes, Symetrix, API clone, etc.

Of course there will be variances in performances and slight variations in mic placements, but hopefully it will be enough for me to judge the difference between the 2 styles. Of course, this experiment will not tell me how it would sound to record on, for example all Neves or APIs or Tridents, etc. But it should show me the difference between recording a song on 'utility' type, transparent pres and 'colored' ones.

Originally Posted by tINY

Older dynamic designs tend to get tne most differentiation out of mic pre-amps. when you run an LDC, the differences between pre-amps aren't as pronaounced....

..as long as they are just pre-amps with flat response from about 30Hz to 25kHz or so. A lot of times, there is an EQ curve built into boutique preamps. You can do that with a good parametric EQ - in the box even.




-tINY

[manthe]

Originally Posted by zaza2

But it is always good to have at least 3 choices

slut cream, eh...hmmmmm

What '3' choices would you take to your desert island?

[Brad McGowan]

I'm of the mindset that one high-end preamp "color" is enough for an entire project. In my studio I've decided to collect preamps that are variations of the same basic flavor. That flavor for me is discrete opamp based with transformer coupled inputs and outputs...more specifically: variations on the API theme. I'm actually in the process of fine-tuning my selection even more. My API 3124 will be going up for sale shortly and I will maintain a complement of API variants built with Eisen Audio kits. I have Pacificas and P1's as well that fall into that same camp (to my ears). All the preamps will use Cinemag transformers and all of them will have identical output transformers. In my tests I've found that the choice of iron plays a big part in determining the sonic character of the preamp.

Brad

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I'm of the mindset that one high-end preamp "color" is enough for an entire project. In my studio I've decided to collect preamps that are variations of the same basic flavor. That flavor for me is discrete opamp based with transformer coupled inputs and outputs...more specifically: variations on the API theme. I'm actually in the process of fine-tuning my selection even more. My API 3124 will be going up for sale shortly and I will maintain a complement of API variants built with Eisen Audio kits. I have Pacificas and P1's as well that fall into that same camp (to my ears). All the preamps will use Cinemag transformers and all of them will have identical output transformers. In my tests I've found that the choice of iron plays a big part in determining the sonic character of the preamp.

Brad

Brad, have you tried the JLM opamp w/ the Eisen kits? i think its amazing.

im getting deja vu...have i asked u this before? feels like i might have

4 of my Eisens have the JLM opamp and i think theyre awesome on everything, especially drums.

[BLueROom]

I'd be happy with 3 choices. API/Sebatron/A-Designs or maybe throw in a nice clean one/two.

[desol]

Originally Posted by tINY

I get most of my sonic flavor from the mics I choose.



-tINY

D.

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by gm5k

Brad, have you tried the JLM opamp w/ the Eisen kits? i think its amazing.

im getting deja vu...have i asked u this before? feels like i might have

4 of my Eisens have the JLM opamp and i think theyre awesome on everything, especially drums.

I've never tried the JLM opamp before. Are you referring to the 99V or that hybrid thing he sells? What do you like about it? Can you compare it to a 2520 or a 990C? Those I know.

thanks,
Brad

[rwhitney]

I'm consistency-leaning, but I wish I could use more kinds of preamps so I could vary by project. Within a project (I'm not a pro), I have liked the unity of using the same kind for everything.

[soupking]

I'll play:

1) ADT v700 (console)
2) Neve 1053 (sidecar)
3) Telefunken v72 (outboard)

Mics: Neumanns and RCA ribbons

Okaaay, and maybe a twin API 2520. I'm curious how they sound.

Peace,
-soupking

[Kris]

Neve... only because I've heard they are the best.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Kris

Neve... only because I've heard they are the best.

LOL!

GO NOLES!!!!!!!!!

[manthe]

Originally Posted by patrox247

We've got tons of pre's around here that I almost never use. I like the unity that recording everything with the console pre's brings. I think that unity becomes of an increased importance when tracking to a digital medium.

I'm especially interested in your's and rwhitney's experiences here. It is the opposite of how I record. I've never invested in a console that I would consider to be high enough quality to rely on the built-on preamps to record with. BUT, I've been considering selling off a few of these 'boutique' channel strips and scraping together a few more Gs and buying something...Maybe a Trident (Toft).

I am a mid-range guy, not high-end. So, it would DEFINITELY have to fall as far under 10k US as possible, yet still offer good enough quality to make a 'high-end' demo, mix local bands, V/O and 'small-time' post stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I love the variety I have. I also like to be able to cater to specific wants/needs. For example, I have a Symetrix 528E channel strip. This is a tried and tru standard for broadcast and voice-over. Couple that with my RE20 or SM7b and it makes VO people very happy. Perhaps I'd still keep a few things like that laying around, but for the sake of simplicity, I've been dreaming of a nice, consolidated board!

Then again....maybe not

[Silvertone]

Here is where real engineers shine and why it takes time to learn the skill of engineering. A long time I might add.

A great engineer knows the SOUNDS of all his/her tools. Mic's, mic pre's, compressors etc... Then he/she knows what mic and what pre-amp will complement the source. Usually they'll have a variety of options to choose from because they know choosing the right flavors in the beginning makes the job much easier down the line. In the long run you'll have less problems at mix time, great depth, better sound stage, more exciting recording, etc.

So one pre... no friggin way.

Learn a variety of tools, you'll be a much better engineer in the long run for it.

Of course the skill and art of engineering is as discounted today as much as great musicians, arrangers, composers and conductors of the past.

If we don't learn from out past we are bound to repeat the same mistakes... here we go...