Too much hihat in overheads - automate overheads??

[blackcom]

When the hihat is just too loud in the overheads, anyone here who prefer to automate lower volume in the overheads-tracks at the parts where the hihat is played ? If so, do you automate both overhead mics equaly or just the one above the hihat?

..anyone with experince with this?


...and please stick to the topic, don't discuss telling the drummer to this or that....i'm just mixing this....

[CKK]

If you have a dedicated HH track you could try ducking the OH via sidechaining - be carefull on the release settings though, dont want it to "pump" too much.

Why on earth didnt they picked up on the HH problem during recording???

[hle144]

Originally Posted by blackcom

When the hihat is just too loud in the overheads, anyone here who prefer to automate lower volume in the overheads-tracks at the parts where the hihat is played ? If so, do you automate both overhead mics equaly or just the one above the hihat?

..anyone with experince with this?


...and please stick to the topic, don't discuss telling the drummer to this or that....i'm just mixing this....

Too much hi hat leakage onto the other drum tracks is the perpetual problem since the advent of modern recording. Dan Alexander has a really funny diatribe about this.

Yeah, automate both overheads, if not, then try just the one closer to the hi hat. Repeat until satisfied. Try muting the hi hat mic all together.

[blackcom]

Originally Posted by CKK

If you have a dedicated HH track you could try ducking the OH via sidechaining - be carefull on the release settings though, dont want it to "pump" too much.

Why on earth didnt they picked up on the HH problem during recording???

They did!
Drummer coulden't do it better...the only option was to cancel the record and split the band.

The drummer is kickass otherwise, though.....

[Vum]

If need be, you could fold the sections with hi-hat down to mono and then when the drums open up again, throw them back out into a wider stereo plane. While in mono, it may be easier to dodge some of those freq's out of the overheads.

are there lots of tom fills? are the toms mic'd individually? in these sections you could just use tom spill for overheads, again, in mono.

I've tracked soooo many drummers in tiny rooms where there was just no way to avoid the hat - you could just use level automation - however anytime a crash is hit followed by the hat it will sound very un-natural.

px

[Barish]

...or just leave the hihat alone and tell everyone that it has Tony Visconti touch on it.

B.

[rwhitney]

Make everything else screaming bright so the hi-hat doesn't stand out! Okay, maybe not.

[Oroz]

In this situation I automate both OH's channels. Just finished a mix where I needed the opposite, to tame down with automation everytime the drummer hitted the crash cymbal, splashes and HH were OK but he hitted the crash very hard. Just be careful to make a nice curve when returning to the normal level so it sounds natural and try to do it a slowly, if you make the volume changes very fast they will be evident.

Just to clarify a little, I usually don't mic the HH, just OH's, I like better this way, soundwise. There are songs where you need the HH mic'ed but most of time I don't need it.

[rwhitney]

Would it work to use a HH mic, and if it were too loud in the OHs, flip the mic out of phase with the OHs to reduce its level?

[peat]

good idea
but that would only work if the OH mics and the HH mic where in pretty much the exact same spot

[rwhitney]

Wouldn't you get at least partial cancellation?

[rwhitney]

In fact, phase inversions can be quite pronounced in the high frequencies if the mics are a foot or two apart (top and bottom snare mics, for example). Maybe one thing we should all do with drummers is make sure the snare mic is as much out of phase as possible with the nearest overhead, then flip it if the level's good, or leave it out of phase to reduce the hi hat. (I'm joking of course, but there may be a practical approach emerging from my insanity...)

[Vum]

You could always scoot the HH track to line up with the OVRs for cancellation. However, what is in the HH track probably isn't ONLY HH so the other frequencies cancelled or constructed may sound like a wreck.

It's always worth a shot, it might take five minutes of your time to set up.

Also, you could make a false M+S matrix and try some odd panning with that. It's not uncommon in rock music to have the drums panned narrowly in the verse and then spread in the chorus.

Or, you could re-record the ovrs onto a stereo track where there is some pretty hefty EQ to filter out the high hat and just bring that in when things get too hectic, this is of course assuming that you have time to do this.

I've done that once or twice and, though it was "better" than the original tracking as far as HH spill was concerned, it was however not good. More often than not, you have to live with these things - especially with drummers who play a semi or open hat as if they're hammering a nail.