I AM TALKING ONLY ABOUT SOUND!! COMPARISON AND OPINIONS

[zak7]

Hi!
I want to have clear that this thread is only about SOUND QUALITY OF MIXES!!!
Please do not mention all the benefits of mixing with a DAW..we all know the instant recall , the automation, editing, many intances of plug ins .....blah ..blah...

My point is this:
We all DAW mixers we are looking for the best sounding plug ins...emulations or not, the best compressors, EQs, Effx.
But what could happen if we for example compare that ITB mixes with the best Plug ins with let's say a mix with a Mackie 8 bus or a Topaz mixer, or any kind of descent ..so.. so low budget desk with cheap compressors from Alesis, Behringer, cheap DBX or even the famous RNC...some low buget EQs and cheap lexicons, roland,yamaha reverbs , delays etc.

then would sound better using ADAT or DA88?
Would prefer to use a DAW as Tape?

and mainly how the Low Budget Desk with those outboard gear will compete with the best DAW and Plug ins?

Please again..this is all about sound.

[FossilTooth]

I love working on a real console, but I'd take ProTools ITB with my plugs over a over a Mackie 32-8 and some ADATs with a few channels of uber cheap dbx and alesis comps and some $100 effect boxes, any day.

I dislike working on that kind of stuff when I'm doing live sound. I would never want it in my studio... and I'm no gear snob.

Yech.

[joeq]

somebody here said recently something to the effect that if your mixer costs less than your car, stay in the box

and he probably was talking about something newer than MY car

[AMIEL]

Interesting Thread!

Mmm I think somebody here must have a good answer baesed on real experiene and real comparisons.

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

Interesting Thread!

Mmm I think somebody here must have a good answer baesed on real experiene and real comparisons.

Ummmmm...... I do. No one should ever answer a question without real experience.

If you're asking about an A/B test between an ITB and OTB mix of the same songs on a cheap mixer and a DAW, I've done that as well.... hence my answer.

I had a Allen & Heath MixWiz 16:2 for a while. At one pint, I thought I'd try to bring it into my studio and use it. It's head and shoulders better than any comparably priced Mackie.

Now, remember, there's a difference between summing and mixing. You can just take an already completed ITB mix and run stems out to the console. Likely your mix will fall apart, or at least sound different than you intended, if left as is. This makes a direct comparison unfair.

Mixing on the thing is another story. You'll want to set all your outputs to unity to take advantage of the benefits of the mixer, and avoid a higher noise floor. Unfortunately, you'll then have to remix the songs, making truly direct comparison impossible.

That said, mixing and summing through the A&H sounded different. Sometimes 'better' sometimes 'worse'. Higher noise floor and lack of recall wasn't worth it. It was however, sometimes quicker getting the midrange and the imaging right.

All that aside, from my experience working on dozens of different consoles in the studio and in live settings, I must reiterate: I'd rather mix ITB than on a Mackie anyday.

I'd rather mix on an SSL or a Neve (even a VR) than ITB.

I've mixed on DDA's, Neoteks and Tridents with good results. It's much more fun, than ITB and I often get the results I want much faster. Depending on the studio, I'll often do quite a bit of software processing as well, if the studio doesn't have enough of the hardware tools I like. These "B List" consoles are frowned upon by some gear snobs, but I like 'em just fine. If I had room in my Project studio, I'd own one myself.

So back to my original point: I'd rather mix ITB than on a Mackie. Anyone with actual real-world experience is entitled to have a different or similair opinion. That's mine.

[AMIEL]

Great!! I am happy you make it clear that you did the test..u know..many opinions here are based on assuptions or what somebody else think without even those comment being based on real experience.

I have no answer...I mix ITB now from 6 years and in this last years I only mixed on SSLs, Neve, and Sony Oxford...maybe 8 years ago I did my last mix on a Mackie 8 bus or something similar..so I could not recall that experience and compare it now.

Thanks for your opinion..and sorry .... I did not see any confirmation that was a real experience comment.

[AlexLakis]

I've made mixes on ADATs that have sounded better than my ITB mixes, and vice versa. I've made mixes on ADATs and ITB that have sounded better than other people's SSL mixes, and vice versa.

The bottom line is that it's not the technology that is limiting. It's the talent. The song. The production. The energy. The room. The passion. The instruments. The lyrics. The delivery. The people. The ideas. The moment.

If you think otherwise, well, you've been hanging out on Gearslutz too much. But, this is a gear forum...

Personally, in a perfect world, I'd have the best of all worlds (for me.) I'd track thru a bunch of different outboard pres, dynamics processors, EQs, etc. I'd track to Pro Tools and do my editing there. Then I'd mix out of a large console, using both console processing and outboard inserts.

That's just my preference, tho. It really doesn't matter how you do it, as long as you're good. I know at least two people whose productions I respect for their fidelity, and they refuse to give up their ADATs.

Just my experiences/opinions.

[AMIEL]

Yes I agree about the talent ...but if that talent have those option...where his mixes would sound better?

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

Yes I agree about the talent ...but if that talent have those option...where his mixes would sound better?

The mixes are going to sound the best when you're using what you're most familiar with and most comfortable with.

[AMIEL]

Ok Alex! even if you are more familiar with that little mackies with bass and treble against those setups????

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

Ok Alex! even if you are more familiar with that little mackies with bass and treble against those setups????

Yes; If you're most familiar and comfortable using an analog mixer to mix, then your mixes will most likely sound better when you mix thru an analog mixer.

I know people who could mix me under the table with a Mackie 8 if they wanted to, no matter what I'm using.