The must of Pro Tools skills?

[Klotzi]

I'm a student and planning to get in the recording industry after my education. I've been working with Logic for about 5 years. I wouldn't say I'm a 'Pro' in Logic but I know it (audio-wise) quite well.
I'm very happy with it and don't see the need for my work of any other.
But...when it comes to the industry...I think there is only (I know NOT only, but in general) Pro Tools in recording studios

Now I'm thinking about buying Pro Tools to get familiar with the "Industry-Standard" and be prepared after my education.

Do you think there is a must of Pro Tools skills if you want to work as an intern or freelancer for studios or in the recording industy in general?
Or would you say if you know engineering and producing well nobody gives a damn about your DAW skills?

[acousticmaniac]

Or would you say if you know engineering and producing well nobody gives a damn about your DAW skills?

Its not a fact that no one gives a damn. In my experience no one should notice your skills as you shouldn't be making any mistakes. Its a given that you have the ability before you enter the session.

In my opinion, DAW skills are like artists paintbrushes. Anyone can have them but it doesn't necessarily mean they paint a good picture.

[ryst]

People do give a damn about daw skills. If you are on Pro Tools and the producer/artist asks you to do something specific you better know how to do it on the program you are using. So if you are on Pro Tools you don't want to look like an ass. People will think you don't know anything. I have seen it many times.


As far as "Pro Tools skills', just learn how to get from point A to point B in as many different senarios in as many different ways and as quick as you can. Sometimes one path works better than another.

[yaboicheeze]

yeah i agree you need to know all tha programs if you wanna be fluent in any professional studio ......(pro toolies logic even cubase..lol) im pretty sure no pros are on tha cubase lately but you never know......... go get an mbox or mpowered pro tools just to learn tha program ......you dont have to spend alot to get familiar with it ....tha LE and tha M-powered are basically tha same commands and all that

[macleodgrant]

i'd have to agree with ryst on this one. especially if starting out and you're not yet a great mixer, you definitely should know the DAW they're using very well as you would be an asset in that area 

[Beermaster]

I think the first point is that Pro Tools Isn't the industry standard everywhere. certainly here in central London I come across just as many Sadie, Soundscape and Nuendo's being used commercially as Pro tools - but I get your point.

From the commercial studio stand point its all about speed and precision. Its also about keeping your cool and even when things are going wrong in a session be it equipment failure or 'Finger trouble' that you make it seem that nothing is wrong and get it sorted with as little fuss as possible.

In recordings and track laying its all about being ahead of the game. its laying markers as the reocrding is going along to mark potential errors in the performance or mark out structural points in the music so you can locate ASAP and know where you are before the client asks you. There is nothing worse than hiring an engineer who is unaware of whats being recorded ( from a musical point of view ) and needs to spend ten minutes finding drop points or chorus points.

So much of it is etiquette

[swisha31]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

I think the first point is that Pro Tools Isn't the industry standard everywhere. certainly here in central London I come across just as many Sadie, Soundscape and Nuendo's being used commercially as Pro tools - but I get your point.

From the commercial studio stand point its all about speed and precision. Its also about keeping your cool and even when things are going wrong in a session be it equipment failure or 'Finger trouble' that you make it seem that nothing is wrong and get it sorted with as little fuss as possible.

In recordings and track laying its all about being ahead of the game. its laying markers as the reocrding is going along to mark potential errors in the performance or mark out structural points in the music so you can locate ASAP and know where you are before the client asks you. There is nothing worse than hiring an engineer who is unaware of whats being recorded ( from a musical point of view ) and needs to spend ten minutes finding drop points or chorus points.

So much of it is etiquette

Yeah this is very important. i remember when I first interned for a guy here in Mississippi, I walked in and he sat me down in front of DP 4 and I started tracking an artists right then and there. It was my first run through in DP but I caught it quick. Setting markers help big time, especially in PT but I've always been good at remembering where the mistakes are going by the bar count. Never really set markers but it's a good habit to get into.

[DSD_Mastering]

I'd have to say the best thing that I ever did was studying for my Expert Certification. For that, you will need to know how to get from point A to point B 3 or more ways on BOTH MAC AND PC! Also, you will need to know ALL your shortcut keys as well as know how to do it on your control surface (Control24/Pro Control/Icon). They wouldn't let me touch the mouse! That's the only way you'll become proficient. As for your listening/judgement skills... you're on your own!

Regards,
Bruce

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

I think the first point is that Pro Tools Isn't the industry standard everywhere. certainly here in central London I come across just as many Sadie, Soundscape and Nuendo's being used commercially as Pro tools - but I get your point.

absolutely right - there is no "industry standard". However, it is the most common system in the RECORDING facilities out there, as in facilities with live rooms etc etc. To that end, if you dont know how to operate PT, then you cant realistically be a gopher in a studio.

more importantly, to the original poster - bear in mind you have approximately the same chance of landing a job in this industry as you do working on the pit crew of a formula one team. Jobs are few and far between and those that do come up go to the best and the most ruthless........ this is no career choice in 2007, take it from one of the few emploers in the UK recording industry. Most are freelance.

[Jack Ruston]

If I hire an assistant, I need them to be able to do all the basic things 'fluidly'. I don't need them to be able to remember where every last setting is located in the preferences (I don't know!), but I need them to be able to handle the PT rig without me having to babysit.

What I REALLY want is for them to be able to do any autotuning and editing of multitrack drums. The best assistant is the one who, while you are out having lunch, fixes the drum timing for you!

I have an assistant who I use from time to time who's great with PT, and he works with a number of other producers too...so when one of us finds a cool new way of doing things, this guy picks it up and spreads it around!

J

[Jules]

Obviously mixing in Pro Tools is a skill ..

But if you have to learn something.. Learn how to cope with an experienced R&B vocal overdub session with zillions of harmonies..and a singer that wants to work FAST.

New tracks, constantly changing headphone balances..loop recording - "like you can in Logic"

...that can really sort the men from the boys IMHO

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Jack Ruston

If I hire an assistant, I need them....

....to be able to do any autotuning and editing of multitrack drums. The best assistant is the one who, while you are out having lunch, fixes the drum timing for you!

What he said..

[bickele]

Learn to keep all the takes under control; come up with a system that allows you to find that specific vocals overdub the singer did yesterday just before lunch break.

Shortcuts are a MUST! Learn them all! Go through the list thoroughly, divide them into three levels of priority and learn them all by heart starting from the most important ones, "priority level one". This will allow you to work very fast, clients will be impressed, I promise. It will also bring you deep into all the software functions. Last but not least, it will save you some nasty tendinitis.

b.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by bickele

Shortcuts are a MUST! Learn them all! Go through the list thoroughly, divide them into three levels of priority and learn them all by heart starting from the most important ones, "priority level one". This will allow you to work very fast, clients will be impressed, I promise. It will also bring you deep into all the software functions. Last but not least, it will save you some nasty tendinitis.

If you have this priority list, I'd love to read it posted!

OP: I think everyone has to know Pro Tools who wants to be a pro engineer right now...but you can also know something else, whatever that is.

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by narcoman

more importantly, to the original poster - bear in mind you have approximately the same chance of landing a job in this industry as you do working on the pit crew of a formula one team. Jobs are few and far between and those that do come up go to the best and the most ruthless........ this is no career choice in 2007, take it from one of the few emploers in the UK recording industry. Most are freelance.

+1

May I suggest that you study electrical engineering or computer science.

[Klotzi]

First of all, thank you all for your replies.

I have to clarify some things...

Originally Posted by narcoman

absolutely right - there is no "industry standard". However, it is the most common system in the RECORDING facilities out there, as in facilities with live rooms etc etc. To that end, if you dont know how to operate PT, then you cant realistically be a gopher in a studio.

more importantly, to the original poster - bear in mind you have approximately the same chance of landing a job in this industry as you do working on the pit crew of a formula one team. Jobs are few and far between and those that do come up go to the best and the most ruthless........ this is no career choice in 2007, take it from one of the few emploers in the UK recording industry. Most are freelance.

I know that there is no "industry standard" and many studios use other daws. IMO any daw can do the same but in different ways which either somebody likes or not....so there isn't THE ONE AND ONLY DAW (but this isn't the topic). But the most time when I was looking for recording studios they work with Pro Tools (IMO because of the HD). So this got me to my post.

I'm absolutley aware of the chances getting a job in the recording industry.
But I will try it and to have a good point of departure I'm thinking that knowing Pro Tools is a must

Originally Posted by The Byre

...May I suggest that you study electrical engineering or computer science.

Hmmm...not exactly but how did you know!!!!!??????
I study "Electrical / Audio Engineering". It's mostly about the technical side (oh man so much digital signal processing and stuff ) and less about recording and mixing. We have that also but as a minor subject and very low level (at least now). IMO you can learn everything by doing and experience
I would say it's electrical engineering but specialized in audio...so you will not necessarily work with music (recordings or whatever) but can work in every electrical engineering field which has to do with audio and acoustics.
So in reference to narcoman again... If I'm not able to find a job in the music/recording industry I have something to come back which has to do with my passion.

[swisha31]

i want to know why PT has no Internal metronome like Nuendo does. It's so convenient. If i remember correctly Digital Performer has one too.

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by swisha31

i want to know why PT has no Internal metronome like Nuendo does. It's so convenient. If i remember correctly Digital Performer has one too.

Are you running PT7?
Pro Tools does have an internal click.
It can be created automatically whenever you have a new session.
It automatically locks to conductor tempo if you wish.
If you have the TL Metronome plugin, it can do the same type of multi click sound approach that Logic has.

[Red_venom]

Originally Posted by swisha31

i want to know why PT has no Internal metronome like Nuendo does. It's so convenient. If i remember correctly Digital Performer has one too.

Well the answer is that it does. The setup is just a little bit hidden. Its a plugin called "Click" or "Clicktrack" (Been a good year since i was last on PT i cant remember haha). You just put it on an aux track and then you can print it to audio or just leave it there if you dont need the aux space.

Learn to make templates for all daws. They are incredibly useful.

[Klotzi]

Oh I think I should say... I already worked as an assitant in a recording studio.

A friend of mine got a major deal with his band. He told me about the Studio they were recording. So I asked the engineer for the possibility of an internship. He said that he mostly works for his own and hasn't got time to care enough and show enough to somebody. But if I'm a friend of the band I could come with them and watch...
After a week or so, when he knew me a bit better and realized that I know somthing, I helped him setting up some mics and stuff and made some basic trackings as the "daw controller". And why??? Because he works with Logic (with a Pro Tools HD system!!!) and me too (except the PT HD)
This were all small things but he realized that he can relay on me and asked me to work for him as an assitant with much more responsibility a few months later!!!

For me one of the main reasons why he asked me was: my knowlegde of Logic...he could have lunch and when he comes back the recordings are ready for overdubbing...


To come back to my original post...
Do you think Pro Tools is so widely used that knowlegde is essential. Because today there aren't many (any?) studios who employ you for learning if you can't take some work from them. So you are the "Pro Tools Operator" (I know that there are courses for that) Or are there other ways of getting in the industry?

[amost]

Originally Posted by Klotzi

Do you think Pro Tools is so widely used that knowlegde is essential.

Probably so.

[swisha31]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Are you running PT7?
Pro Tools does have an internal click.
It can be created automatically whenever you have a new session.
It automatically locks to conductor tempo if you wish.
If you have the TL Metronome plugin, it can do the same type of multi click sound approach that Logic has.

yeah its PT 7 but it's LE or does that matter? I think im just gonna read up on it more cause I dont wanna hijack the thread.

[Klotzi]

Originally Posted by swisha31

...I dont wanna hijack the thread.

You already did, but for me it doesn't matter

[swisha31]

Originally Posted by Klotzi

You already did, but for me it doesn't matter

haha, technically it wasn't really a hijack per se. it was kind of a mini-jack to ask a question but it applied to the topic, kinda, sorta.

anyway, I just went and got it together

[Tibbon]

IMHO I think you should consider two things:

1) If the tape/protools operator is doing his job, then the Engineer, nor Producer should really have to monkey with Protools much.

2) If you understand Logic, then Protools is simple. Really really simple. Get an mbox or whatever and use it for a month. You'll understand PT.

Bonus: If you're a killer engineer (like top top sounding) and can do your stuff on Logic or 2" instead... then I think anyone with brains would go to you regardless of platform. If for some reason Steve Albini didn't know how to use PT, but was a master on 2"... I'd hire him anyways. A good engineer is a good engineer.

[JPZ]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Are you running PT7?
Pro Tools does have an internal click.
It can be created automatically whenever you have a new session.
It automatically locks to conductor tempo if you wish.
If you have the TL Metronome plugin, it can do the same type of multi click sound approach that Logic has.

PT click isn't accurate. Print it one time and you'll see. If you can, waste an audio track and build your own click out of whatever sound sources you or the client prefers and then drop it in on to the grid.

[Ricey]

i use Logic and never need to look at PT for my stuff - but i learned PT so that i don't have to explain myself to clients that don't understand. Avid/Digidesign's huge market share is based on a lot of fear-factor promotion and aggressive placement in audio schools. whatever - it works great like anything else if you know how to use it.
it's definitely important to know PT and to have a copy. and Tibbon is right on about the learning curve, so why not? not having it is kind of like turning down a lot of work and some people are into that too! most projects i get as a mixer come to me in PT. fine: open, export, import to Logic and get to work thumbsup
i'm speaking as a composer/engineer, but in your case it's even more crucial i would think...

[Klotzi]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

...If you're a killer engineer (like top top sounding) and can do your stuff on Logic or 2" instead... then I think anyone with brains would go to you regardless of platform. If for some reason Steve Albini didn't know how to use PT, but was a master on 2"... I'd hire him anyways. A good engineer is a good engineer.

Yes for sure...but that isn't the point. It's about getting to be a killer engineer hopefully someday. And so if you want to learn from killer engineers or only get experience in the professional field of recording is pro tools...? I said that before

[Klotzi]

Originally Posted by Ricey

i use Logic and never need to look at PT for my stuff - but i learned PT so that i don't have to explain myself to clients that don't understand. Avid/Digidesign's huge market share is based on a lot of fear-factor promotion and aggressive placement in audio schools. whatever - it works great like anything else if you know how to use it.
it's definitely important to know PT and to have a copy. and Tibbon is right on about the learning curve, so why not? not having it is kind of like turning down a lot of work and some people are into that too! most projects i get as a mixer come to me in PT. fine: open, export, import to Logic and get to work thumbsup
i'm speaking as a composer/engineer, but in your case it's even more crucial i would think...

Great reply

Thanks

[Curve Dominant]

Originally Posted by Klotzi

Do you think Pro Tools is so widely used that knowlegde is essential.

Yes, definitely.

Or are there other ways of getting in the industry?

Yes, but those other ways have nothing to do with gear, DAW software preferences, et al. They have everything to do with publishing.