How long to make a pop album?

sedohr · 22nd July 2007, 05:58 PM

How much time does it take you to make a pop record? From the first studio session to the mastering. I read in a Steve Albini thread somewhere that mr. Albini finishes album in a week!! I'm not sure I could do that.

Well, of course it depends on the music and the musicians. Still, it takes me so many weeks to finish albums. I usually produce them and am often involved in the writing so it may feel a bit longer to me. But I tend to spend a whole lot of time in my projects. Maybe 500 hrs or so. How about you guys?

Kalli

ArcCirDude · 22nd July 2007, 06:00 PM

The Beatles did it in a day.

sedohr · 22nd July 2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

The Beatles did it in a day.

The white album? Sgt. Pepper's lonely hearts club band? In a day ? Neh..

ArcCirDude · 22nd July 2007, 06:11 PM

No, the first one, "Please Please Me". That's why John's voice was so raw on the last cut of the day, "Twist and Shout". They were playing 9 hours a night in Hamburg and were prepared for the session. THAT doesn't happen too much anymore....

sedohr · 22nd July 2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

No, the first one, "Please Please Me". That's why John's voice was so raw on the last cut of the day, "Twist and Shout". They were playing 9 hours a night in Hamburg and were prepared for the session. THAT doesn't happen too much anymore....

No, sadly one don't come across bands like The Beatles very often...

Stu Gutz · 22nd July 2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

The Beatles did it in a day.

And the rest took even longer!

davedarling · 22nd July 2007, 06:32 PM

there's not one answer for this, but there IS a physical property at work...
Time swells, and shrinks to fit the budget.

If you've got $500,000 budget you'll be taking 3 to 6 months ..need it or not.
If you've got $10,000 - you'll be taking 10 to 20 days...because that's all you can afford.

I just finished a record that took 6 weeks. it was a band, doing pop rock, with a pretty high level of production - lots of over dubs, and bleeps and bloops.
6 weeks was fine, not rushed, and exactly the amount of time the budget would allow-
go figure.

best - dave darling

quietdrive · 22nd July 2007, 06:41 PM

If you've done your homework (= preproduction) you should be able to track one song in 3 days. Add 2-3 days for mixing/mastering.

The reason why most people waste so much time in the studio is cause they didnt do enough preproduction. Even if you have a 500k budget, why waste YOUR money (yes, you'll have to recoup it), if you dont have to? I never got that. I'd rather go down to Mexico, rent a beach house and do more preproduction than sit in a dark room without windows (which costs me 1.6k per day), desperately trying to figure out which direction the song should take.

lowswing · 22nd July 2007, 06:42 PM

I usually calculate 6-7 weeks for an album ,top to bottom (pre-prod till end of mixing ,6 days a week)
But the albums I really loved working on usually took 3-4days tracking +ca. 3days vocal/over dubs +7days mixes but this can happen only if the band is great, playing live together . this can never work if your aim is to sound like the ****ing over-edited and "produced" album like the cheesy shit they (unfortunately) plays now a days on main stream radio.

making great album shouldn't take long but todays standard is to work out every "mistake" ,to edit every bit to death, concentrating on production and sound instead of the music and performance and this is sad.

idylldon · 22nd July 2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietdrive

The reason why most people waste so much time in the studio is cause they didn't do enough preproduction.

Yep. And then there are the folks who didn't do enough preproduction and don't have the necessary chops to pull off what little preproduction they did do.

Cheers,
--
Don

**James 'LA' Lugo** · 22nd July 2007, 08:34 PM

It depends on the situation. Albini works usually with full bands that are rehearsed and he track them live. That can be done fast but for a lot of us we work with artists and play most of the instruments ourselves. That can get time consuming and is way more involved. You have to create a vibe and sound and then track all the instruments alone one at a time. I like to do both track and engineer alone a lot so I use the transport pre roll in protools for punching.

swisha31 · 22nd July 2007, 08:34 PM

I dont know how long it took Gavin Degraw to make his album but he had a second disc where he went in with his band and tracked the album all over again in one day with the addition of his version of "Change Gonna Come" and it was presented as "stripped." I find myself listening to that disc more than I do the one that has all of his radio releases on it.

sedohr · 22nd July 2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

... for a lot of us we work with artists and play most of the instruments ourselves. That can get time consuming and is way more involved. You have to create a vibe and sound and then track all the instruments alone one at a time. I like to do both track and engineer alone a lot so I use the transport pre roll in protools for punching.

Well put!

Kenny Gioia · 22nd July 2007, 09:31 PM

Using Steve Albini for a reference when making a pop record makes as much sense as getting your hammer and nail prices from the US Military. It's irrelevant.

I take about 2 - 3 months to do a pop record.

Emo rock bands about 2 months.

sedohr · 22nd July 2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Produceher

Using Steve Albini for a reference when making a pop record makes as much sense as getting your hammer and nail prices from the US Military. It's irrelevant.

I take about 2 - 3 months to do a pop record.

Emo rock bands about 2 months.

Thanks guys, I feel better now.

Tony Shepperd · 22nd July 2007, 10:40 PM

I've worked on pop records that took 60 days.
And I've worked on pop records the took 2 to 3 years.

Until someone says it's done or until the money runs out...
That's when it's done.

Eric Greedy · 22nd July 2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

I've worked on pop records that took 60 days.
And I've worked on pop records the took 2 to 3 years.

Until someone says it's done or until the money runs out...
That's when it's done.

:D

John Fogerty's "full moon fever" ..... FIVE years;)

sedohr · 22nd July 2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Greedy

:D

John Fogerty's "full moon fever" ..... FIVE years;)

Please, please me - The Beatles: 9 hours..

Jay Lee · 22nd July 2007, 11:41 PM

I remember Max Martin having said in his early days as starting to be a hit producer (Britney Spears Hit Me Baby One More Time etc.), that he can use a week only for choosing and tweeking drum sounds and such for a song... Don't know if it's true...

quietdrive · 22nd July 2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Lee

I remember Max Martin having said in his early days as starting to be a hit producer (Britney Spears Hit Me Baby One More Time etc.), that he can use a week only for choosing and tweeking drum sounds and such for a song... Don't know if it's true...

It is, they spent one week mixing "baby one more time"... or was it one month? Not sure, but Max spends A LOT of time on his songs, that why they're hits.

Kenny Gioia · 23rd July 2007, 02:00 AM

I heard that one of the early "Tears for Fears" songs took a whole month.

For one song.

Seems nuts but those productions are amazing.

picksail · 23rd July 2007, 03:45 AM

It's also depends, wholly upon whether or not the client/artist is paying for exclusivity.

The complexity of the production is another issue.

Those are the two biggest factors. Politics are another thing all together.

In most cases I can pull-off a song a week with non-exclusive deals.

Working in the "ProTools age" has made things much easier for me for songs that could have otherwise taken indefinite periods of time.

lowswing · 23rd July 2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Lee

I remember Max Martin having said in his early days as starting to be a hit producer (Britney Spears Hit Me Baby One More Time etc.), that he can use a week only for choosing and tweeking drum sounds and such for a song... Don't know if it's true...

well, if I had to spend so much time on a mix (or drum sound) I would probably have to come with the truth: "I can't make records" and anyway I would be just bored of myself.
If I had worked on a mix for a whole week and the result was "Hit Me Baby One More Time" I'd kill myself

even though the paying check might be cool.

I worked with "big name" producers (as engineer) that made huge albums back in the 80's beginning of 90's and they told me one reason that albums took so long to make is:
1. the band was sent to studio by the label even though they didn't have songs writen yet= they start to write in the studio.
2. they re-record, re-mix many songs which is result of 1, they just didn't live with their songs long enough to make the right decisions fast.
3. there was hugh budgets to spend
4. a lot of musicians had serious drug problems and man ,its hard to record with people on the needle .
5. did I mention they had realy huge budget to spend?

quietdrive · 23rd July 2007, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowswing

well, if I had to spend so much time on a mix (or drum sound) I would probably have to come with the truth: "I can't make records" and anyway I would be just bored of myself.
If I had worked on a mix for a whole week and the result was "Hit Me Baby One More Time" I'd kill myself

even though the paying check might be cool.

Maybe that's the reason why you arent as successful as Max.. you cant recognize great songwriting, and instead have to post on Gearslutz bashing others!

lowswing · 23rd July 2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietdrive

Maybe that's the reason why you arent as successful as Max.. you cant recognize great songwriting, and instead have to post on Gearslutz bashing others!

I just measure success in other way rather than only $$$

quietdrive · 23rd July 2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowswing

I just measure success in other way rather than only $$$

And there we have it again, Art vs Commerce... unsuccessful guys slamming successful guys... and unsuccessful guys justifying their lack of success as some form of integrity ("I'd never write that crap"... maybe you wouldnt cause you CANT!), calling the successful guys sell-outs for being able to create hit songs.

Jesus, I wont participate in chapter 577520373772554 of this discussion. But have fun.

lowswing · 23rd July 2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietdrive

And there we have it again, Art vs Commerce... unsuccessful guys slamming successful guys... and unsuccessful guys justifying their lack of success as some form of integrity ("I'd never write that crap"... maybe you wouldnt cause you CANT!), calling the successful guys sell-outs for being able to create hit songs.

Jesus, I wont participate in chapter 577520373772554 of this discussion. But have fun.

I don't want to get into this kids war.
i didn't ever tried to bash this max dude (never heard his name before) I just meant to say that in my book (maybe i am too old) working on a drum sound for a week is called computer Programming and not making music...
and by the way , quietdriver, why don't you use your real name , before you called other people "unsuccessful"

Robert Sands · 23rd July 2007, 02:40 PM

I'm getting near the end of a 15 song country CD for a local guy. It will be somewhere between 500 - 600 hours of work by the time it's done. I take a long time maybe but the project just seems to need that much time. A week per song I think is very justified.

midigod · 23rd July 2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowswing

If I had worked on a mix for a whole week and the result was "Hit Me Baby One More Time" I'd kill myself

To be honest, if I spent a week on a mix and it turned out like that tune, I would weep with joy. That track's production and arrangement are astonishingly good. It shouldn't matter whether you like Britney, or even the tune, there should still be the ability to appreciate the effort and talent on everyone's part that came up with that final mix.

Craig

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22nd July 2007, 05:58 PM	#1
sedohr Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Reykjavik, Iceland Posts: 841	How long to make a pop album? How much time does it take you to make a pop record? From the first studio session to the mastering. I read in a Steve Albini thread somewhere that mr. Albini finishes album in a week!! I'm not sure I could do that. Well, of course it depends on the music and the musicians. Still, it takes me so many weeks to finish albums. I usually produce them and am often involved in the writing so it may feel a bit longer to me. But I tend to spend a whole lot of time in my projects. Maybe 500 hrs or so. How about you guys? Kalli

22nd July 2007, 06:00 PM	#2
ArcCirDude Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nesna, Norway Posts: 909	The Beatles did it in a day. __________________ "Creative work defines itself; therefore, confront the work." John Cage Gary Hoffman Arctic Circle Recording Studio

22nd July 2007, 06:11 PM	#4
ArcCirDude Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nesna, Norway Posts: 909	No, the first one, "Please Please Me". That's why John's voice was so raw on the last cut of the day, "Twist and Shout". They were playing 9 hours a night in Hamburg and were prepared for the session. THAT doesn't happen too much anymore.... __________________ "Creative work defines itself; therefore, confront the work." John Cage Gary Hoffman Arctic Circle Recording Studio

22nd July 2007, 06:42 PM	#9
lowswing Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 1,170	I usually calculate 6-7 weeks for an album ,top to bottom (pre-prod till end of mixing ,6 days a week) But the albums I really loved working on usually took 3-4days tracking +ca. 3days vocal/over dubs +7days mixes but this can happen only if the band is great, playing live together . this can never work if your aim is to sound like the ****ing over-edited and "produced" album like the cheesy shit they (unfortunately) plays now a days on main stream radio. making great album shouldn't take long but todays standard is to work out every "mistake" ,to edit every bit to death, concentrating on production and sound instead of the music and performance and this is sad. __________________ Guy Sternberg Engineer, Producer LowSwing Studios, berlin www.lowswing.de

22nd July 2007, 06:32 PM	#7
davedarling Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: west coast yo Posts: 182	there's not one answer for this, but there IS a physical property at work... Time swells, and shrinks to fit the budget. If you've got $500,000 budget you'll be taking 3 to 6 months ..need it or not. If you've got $10,000 - you'll be taking 10 to 20 days...because that's all you can afford. I just finished a record that took 6 weeks. it was a band, doing pop rock, with a pretty high level of production - lots of over dubs, and bleeps and bloops. 6 weeks was fine, not rushed, and exactly the amount of time the budget would allow- go figure. best - dave darling

22nd July 2007, 06:41 PM	#8
quietdrive Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 618	If you've done your homework (= preproduction) you should be able to track one song in 3 days. Add 2-3 days for mixing/mastering. The reason why most people waste so much time in the studio is cause they didnt do enough preproduction. Even if you have a 500k budget, why waste YOUR money (yes, you'll have to recoup it), if you dont have to? I never got that. I'd rather go down to Mexico, rent a beach house and do more preproduction than sit in a dark room without windows (which costs me 1.6k per day), desperately trying to figure out which direction the song should take.

22nd July 2007, 08:34 PM	#11
James 'LA' Lugo Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 3,142	It depends on the situation. Albini works usually with full bands that are rehearsed and he track them live. That can be done fast but for a lot of us we work with artists and play most of the instruments ourselves. That can get time consuming and is way more involved. You have to create a vibe and sound and then track all the instruments alone one at a time. I like to do both track and engineer alone a lot so I use the transport pre roll in protools for punching. __________________ Vocal Asylum, 323.462.4722 6381 Hollywood Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90028 http://www.JamesLugo.com http://www.WritingGiants.com http://www.myspace.com/jameslugo Clients Include: The Smashing Pumpkins, 311, A Fine Frenzy, The Veronica's, American Idol

22nd July 2007, 08:34 PM	#12
swisha31 Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hell's Kitchen AKA Mississippi Posts: 679	I dont know how long it took Gavin Degraw to make his album but he had a second disc where he went in with his band and tracked the album all over again in one day with the addition of his version of "Change Gonna Come" and it was presented as "stripped." I find myself listening to that disc more than I do the one that has all of his radio releases on it.

22nd July 2007, 09:31 PM	#14
Kenny Gioia Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 2,584	Using Steve Albini for a reference when making a pop record makes as much sense as getting your hammer and nail prices from the US Military. It's irrelevant. I take about 2 - 3 months to do a pop record. Emo rock bands about 2 months. __________________

22nd July 2007, 10:40 PM	#16
Tony Shepperd Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA. Posts: 2,212	I've worked on pop records that took 60 days. And I've worked on pop records the took 2 to 3 years. Until someone says it's done or until the money runs out... That's when it's done. __________________ Mixing in the box, requires thinking outside the box. www.tonysound.com http://myspace.com/mixinginthebox some of my ITB mixes My DVD

22nd July 2007, 11:41 PM	#19
Jay Lee Gear maniac Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 159	I remember Max Martin having said in his early days as starting to be a hit producer (Britney Spears Hit Me Baby One More Time etc.), that he can use a week only for choosing and tweeking drum sounds and such for a song... Don't know if it's true...

23rd July 2007, 02:00 AM	#21
Kenny Gioia Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 2,584	I heard that one of the early "Tears for Fears" songs took a whole month. For one song. Seems nuts but those productions are amazing. __________________

23rd July 2007, 03:45 AM	#22
picksail Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 3,326	It's also depends, wholly upon whether or not the client/artist is paying for exclusivity. The complexity of the production is another issue. Those are the two biggest factors. Politics are another thing all together. In most cases I can pull-off a song a week with non-exclusive deals. Working in the "ProTools age" has made things much easier for me for songs that could have otherwise taken indefinite periods of time. __________________ Stewart Cararas Seventh Level Productions Myspace Profile Discogs _________________________________ The new is necessarily abstract - Rudolf Borchadt

23rd July 2007, 02:40 PM	#28
Robert Sands Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 262	I'm getting near the end of a 15 song country CD for a local guy. It will be somewhere between 500 - 600 hours of work by the time it's done. I take a long time maybe but the project just seems to need that much time. A week per song I think is very justified.

23rd July 2007, 02:59 PM	#30
Jay Lee Gear maniac Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 159