To double vocals, or not to double vocals?

[Matt Grondin]

That is the question. As an aspiring record producer, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on most of the fundamental techniques to make an album sound better, but I'm lost on when to have my artist double their vocals. I feel like it opens Pandora's box. I mean, if doubling a part sounds better, why not double all the vocals, essentially multiplying their workload by two. I mean, can an H3000 come close to getting the point across? Do y'all just use doubling to make a certain line have more emphasis, or to make a chorus sound bigger? That brings up another point, is it necessary to use doubling if you have harmonies as well? Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Blast9]

As a singer I always insist on physically doubling any "doubled" line over using pitch shift.

Try tucking a dry/overdriven or differently EQ'd double right under the lead, or panning a double with flange and short delay over to one side... Eq the mids out a bit to thin it.

Or try low passing the double and panning it hard with a short delay on the opposite side

Get the singer to sing only vowel sounds on the double.

Get them to accent only certain words.

Definitely don't do it on every track. I went through that phase, and it gets bland very quickly

[alcohol]

Not all singers sound good doubled, even if they do a good job of doubling themselves.

In general I find that if the singer is singing in their lower range or natural tessitura, doubling sounds good. If they are singing in their upper range the doubling isn't so hot and I go for EQ, a tape saturation emulator or a multi-band compressor to 'fatten' the vocal.

[Kenny Gioia]

I never double verses.

Sometimes I'll double a line or two in the pre-chorus.

I'll usually always double the chorus unless the singer's character is too strong to be doubled. The chorus usually has a strong hook that should be emphasized with doubling.

I've yet to find a way of faking doubled vocals with delays and choruses. Never sounds as good. The ear perceives the difference.

If the singer is too tired to sing the doubles I will usually comp doubles from the takes that we compiled the keeper from.

The singer sells the song. If it is doubled throughout than there is no intimacy. Then it's all melody and sounds cheap and demo-yy IMHO.

[Matt Grondin]

Where do you usually pan the double? Do you move the lead out of the center and do stereo on the vox?

[quietdrive]

You cant make any generalizations re doubling vocals. Every song is different!

[artnoiser]

Well, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn´t. Sometimes it works to layer 3 part harmonies 4 times, sometimes 6, sometimes 2 (never tried doing more than 6 takes for each voice at once), sometimes it works to double/triple/quadruple sometimes it doesn´t work at all. Sometimes it works, if you have the double part sounding just a wee bit underneath the main vocal, sometimes it's gotta just be barely audible.

How much gold paint is ok to use for a painting?
Depends on the painting.
Is there even stuff in the painting that needs to look golden?
Sometimes it's cool for something to look golden when it's not supposed to.
Sometimes it brings a point across.
Sometimes it looks horrible.
Sometimes it's freaky cool.

The cool thing about this is you can try it anytime you like, if conditions permit, no money down, if you got enough tracks, you can double it 128 times. And if done properly, or in unorthodox ways, it can work great and be just what that part needed.

I guess only you will be able to decide where it works and where it doesn't. And it's a lot of fun to experiment.

[Beermaster]

I was working on a project where we were doing 16 layers of the chorus main vocal - sounded great - tho I imagine that with a singer that was less than spot on each time it would turn in to an acordian type sound ! ha ha.

Depends on the job and the type of music as to what suits

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by dobby12

Where do you usually pan the double? Do you move the lead out of the center and do stereo on the vox?

You asked usually so that's how I'll answer.

I almost always keep the double in the middle with the Lead Vox.

I make it low enuff that you barely notice it until you turn it off.

I keep all the other background vocals panned hard left and hard right.

[rwhitney]

One thing about doubling is that it often contrvenes the individuality and expressivity of a given part. Useful for a group feel, or wall of sound, but usually not good where intimacy is desirable.

[GitWizards]

I thought I read that the beatles would often double their vocals and pan hard left and hard right to widen the sound. Is this accurate, or were they panning something besides the doubled vocals?

[picksail]

It's not uncommon for me to to cut 5-6 lead vocals for a chorus.

1) Primary
2) Double
3) Remaining four vocals are used to emphasis the 'size' of the vocal. A lot of energy is generated from these guys.

The secondary vocals (not the main lead) will be treated more like a background vocals. Less emphasis on dynamics, no vibrato, etc.

I don't do it all the time, but when I need the chorus to come through nothing beats a handful of unison vocals to knock you out.

Verses are a different story.

Sometime a double. Sometimes not. Sometimes only in certain passages that need to be accentuated.

The song arrangement will guide you. Go with your gut!!

[rwhitney]

Yes, the Beatles doubled all the time. I think Recording The Beatles says something about hard panning for width. Lennon didn't like the sound of his voice not doubled. It did work for the Beatles and lots of others, but I try to avoid doubling whenever possible on pricinple of personal aesthetics. That's just me. I'm not a pro.

[Saudade]

I would keep doubling to parts that are "uplifting" (mood wise referring to the song). It is a great way to highlight a part and provide a contrast to the previous or following section. Mostly it is used effectively in the choruses.

I have heard producers who make singers double for the whole song, but it is done only because that singer, a chick, has a high squealy tiny voice and easily overpowered by the music....doubling throughout saved the day in that case.

She's prettty though (explains why she's singing despite her voice)

[Windshore]

I think doubling is pretty much necessary for most pop production. I also think that it can be a trap. The best idea is to keep your mind fairly open and try lots of different things. A lot of doubling will diminish the "Personal" quality of a section, since you're hearing the "group" more than an individual timbre. If you have a weak singer, like a Britney S. you can hide her voice in the group. If you have a Nora Jones, it's obviously a different vibe, where you're trying to accent the individual. BTW. IMHO if you are doubling harmonies, you pretty much have to double the lead....

I for one think the trend has gone for too long in a direction where everything sounds heavily chorused and doubled,... but we all must pick our poison.... experiment.

[jmcdaniel_ee]

For the few times I've doubled vocals, I've ended up with phasing issues. Maybe I'm just not good at staying on exactly the right pitch, but I'm sure most singers have a little vibrato or at least occasional slight shifts in pitch that will inevitably create some phasing when doubled with another take. How do most producers keep phasing from occurring, or is that the desired effect? I stack a lot of harmonies, but don't ever do anything in stict unison because of this phenomenon. Maybe I just don't like the way it sounds. (I typically use really short delays to fatten the single vocal take in the mix.)

[woomanmoomin]

John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, Sinéad O'Connor, et al.
It's got a lot going for it, but I absolutely would not slap it on everything. I wouldn't expect a rock song or album to have any kind of impact if it was constantly loud, and I wouldn't expect doubling to be of any use or interest if it just sat there on top of everything like some kind of schlock varnish. For me, it's all about contrasts.

[heathen]

I think its always best to record the doubled vox if you have the slightest inkling you may need them on mixdown, you can always drop them if it does'nt sound right. Plus you have the added bonus of a few extra takes if 1 does'nt sit perfectly.

I usually record way more than needed then start culling vocal tracks for mixdown.

[bgrotto]

Time permitting, I'd say do it everytime. You can always mute a double, and sometimes a double vocal take can save your ass when you discover a problem with the lead.

Time not permitting, sometimes if the song NEEDS it, you can use alternate takes.

Always try it though. I just finished a track with Never Got Caught (ft. members of Clutch and Tree) where the singer's voice sounded so radically better doubled it was almost absurd. We actually ended up doubling, then adding some doubled harmonies and a doubled low spoken part (think Alice In Chains). It sounds great.

Had I not asked the vocalist to try it, the song would've been about 25% as cool...

[T_R_S]

A Quad Vocal kik ass on a pop song

[Jayro_Rockola]

Check out early modest mouse. I just realized the other day that Lonesome Crowded West might be my favorite of theirs cuz every effin' lyric is doubled. Check it out if you have'nt already.

[Absolute]

It depends on the singer and the song

Go Listen to the Album Long Live Rock n Roll by Rainbow and tell me fake doubling doesnt sound good. And no one would ever say Ronnie James Dio needs to be doubled(by himself or by gear) but it works for the songs it was used on. Some people sound great with ADT and some dont. But its BS that its always better to actually double. Many of the songs we love have ADT.

I also dont think it has anything to do with how high or low you sing to sound good doubled. Its more about the shape of the voice. Singers that are very round dont double well sometimes. Singers that are harmonically rich fare better

Many singers can sing with a rasp and sing clear. Singing one of each can help if regular is not working. One tip I almost dont want to share is singing the song in a higher pitch and then lowering it with software to match the song.

I am a singer and have done this with own voice. When I do this I can make my voice sound exactly like my brothers(who has a deeper tone than me)--you blend it in with the original and its like singing with a slightly altered version of yourself. Go ahead steal it...but I will find yoututt

[Rogervandeberg]

some great tips here! thumbsup

[jmcdaniel_ee]

Bump on my previous reply: phasing issues?

[alcohol]

Originally Posted by Absolute

It depends on the singer and the song


I also dont think it has anything to do with how high or low you sing to sound good doubled. Its more about the shape of the voice. Singers that are very round dont double well sometimes. Singers that are harmonically rich fare better

Yes, I think this better describes why some voices double better than others. The more round and clear voice seems to be more phasey than the richer voice.

I was listening to Cat Steven's, Wild World, on the radio, and the doubling of his voice was very obvious but sounded great. I work with a singer who is dead on with his doubling but it actually seems to thin his voice out. He has a very clear but already thin voice and the doubling just doesn't sound good.

[macleodgrant]

waves doubler rocks and is good enough from me. send the vocal to a buss with doubler on it and pitch shift one side sharp 9 cents and the other flat 9 cents. then add some modulation and delay to it and in the climax of a song you won't hear too much difference than if you had sung the double. in quiet parts of the song you may hear a slight difference but i think it's negligible - it depends if you want to hear the second voice or if you just want the effect. i wouldn't do this with other instruments though

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by Absolute

It depends on the singer and the song
Many singers can sing with a rasp and sing clear. Singing one of each can help if regular is not working. One tip I almost dont want to share is singing the song in a higher pitch and then lowering it with software to match the song.

abba used to do this alot

[Beermaster]

Originally Posted by jmcdaniel_ee

Bump on my previous reply: phasing issues?

Erm - only if your just copying the same vocal in software instead of recording a proper double track live. With some session singers I use the result of double tracking is so subtle that its hard to tell if its been tracked - singers that can sing the same exact phrase with such precision that the pitching and vibrato are so identical that it just starts to sound louder rather than thicker. Even in these instances there's never a phase issue.

If your pitching is that great but near enough then yes the result of playing both tracks simultaneous can sound like a 'chorus' effect has been added as a result of clashes between the pitches of two identical notes that are drifting in and out of tune with each other.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by jmcdaniel_ee

Bump on my previous reply: phasing issues?

I've rarely notice a problem with this unless the singer was soo tight with their phrasing and had excellent pitch.

I worked with a singer in the 80's that tracked his voice 16 times and it never got bigger. He had amazing pitch and phrased exactly each time.

In these rare cases you might try using a different singer to double the lead.

[BJohnston]

A lot of good points here. I'll put my $.02 in. I double the chorus' most of the time...sometimes triple them...sometimes more. When you start doubling things artificially...ie with computer or Harmonizers... you get a real mechinal sound. My ears tend to respond more to the natural chorusing you only get by singing a line or chorus multiple times. I usually take the double and sink it back behind the main vocal to add texture. It can really help a chorus and/or bridge, depending on the song, to come alive.
Sometimes I'll double the entire song. Sometimes I'll pan both vocals
<80 and 80> and let them be more of the focus of the songThere's a lot that can be done to add life and texture to a song with layering vocals. The key is to experiment until you find what suits the song.

B