How would you spend $5k US?

[i51423]

A friend and I are in the process of opening a new studio. He was pretty set on getting a Tascam DM4800 as the centerpiece of the tracking room we'll be sharing. I didn't really agree with this decision as we're using PT LE and it just won't be able to be put to full use. Unfortunately for him, the DM4800s are currently backordered. I think he should be rethinking his potential set up while we're building.

The current setup is this:
-Quad-core 3.0 gHz G5
-Digi 002
-Focusrite Octopre
-UA 6176
-Event 20/20s
-The room is about to be built and treated(properly).

In place of the mixer, I think we should look at some good conversion, some solid pres, and maybe a few comps/EQs. At the studio he just left, he mainly used the digital Tascam board there for the pres, EQ, and compression going into the box. He didn't touch it after that. Seems like a lot of money to spend on that.. eh?

Some thoughts I had in a discussion with another friend:
-Use the DB25 outputs on the Octopre into the line inputs on the 002.
-Lynx 8-channel AD/DA into the ADAT i/o.
-SCA rack with 2 API and 2 Neve modules.
-DA for SPDIF-monitors(probably with a Central Station). [RME? Benchmark? Apogee?]

I'm not sure where we'd be able to afford more compression or EQs in there.. but I feel like it would be a strong front end for normal plugin manipulation. I also don't exactly know how much my friend is willing to spend. $5k seemed like a good starting point from the price of the mixer.

Also, we have a friend at GC willing to help us out a bit.

Any thoughts? Maybe some lower cost EQs/comps that wouldn't be a bad investment? Different conversion?

[Sqye]

.

hi, nick.

i'd spend 5k toward a new car, new rooves on my house and studio,
or cover a house and studio building paint-job.

oh, and then solve world hunger and world peace with the change....

but that's just me.



but SERIOUSLY? i can't work professionally with event monitors...
i just CAN'T - so that would be the first real area i'd focus on..

maybe, converters next, or a machine upgrade.

really good room treatment is NOT going to be cheap,
unless you're VERY lucky, and / or resourceful.


after all, if you can't HEAR wtf you're recording, what's the use?

that said, if the events work for YOU, then so be it - end of discussion.


good luck, whatever you decide....


.

[i51423]

Originally Posted by Sqye

.

hi, nick.

i'd spend 5k toward a new car, new rooves on my house and studio,
or cover a house and studio building paint-job.

oh, and then solve world hunger and world peace with the change....

but that's just me.



but SERIOUSLY? i can't work professionally with event monitors...
i just CAN'T - so that would be the first real area i'd focus on..

maybe, converters next, or a machine upgrade.

really good room treatment is NOT going to be cheap,
unless you're VERY lucky, and / or resourceful.


after all, if you can't HEAR wtf you're recording, what's the use?

that said, if the events work for YOU, then so be it - end of discussion.


good luck, whatever you decide....


.

The room treatments and construction are not included in the $5k budget at all. That's a whole 'nother deal.

My friend likes his Events quite a bit. I don't think he's necessarily looking to upgrade those for a while. He's very comfortable with them. I haven't used them yet. My personal monitors are just lowly KRK RP8s.

I understand the concerns for the monitoring, but I feel that they'll be plenty good for the time being.

He also just got the Mac. An upgrade already?!

[i51423]

Bump.

[evangelista]

I would consider spending some of the money advertising your studio, if it's a commercial venture.

[rufus13]

Diesel fuel.

Dig a hole in the yard and install a 1500 gallon double-wall tank and fill with leftover money. Convert the house to diesel fuel oil heating. Start looking for a diesel vehicle.

Recording studio gear is like setting fire to money in a pile. No useful heat, light, or transport generated.

Cheers.

[slobbermonster]

buy 50 shares of copper stock like the company Freeport McMoRan (FCX)- it's up huge in only 3 months - Or buy Exxon (XOM)

[dlmorley]

I'd actually get a decent used analogue desk and the SSL Alpha Link convertors..

[i51423]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

I'd actually get a decent used analogue desk and the SSL Alpha Link convertors..

That doesn't fall anywhere close to under $5k.

[orksnork]

Originally Posted by rufus13

Recording studio gear is like setting fire to money in a pile. No useful heat, light, or transport generated.

Cheers.

I don't know what kind of gear you are using....but mine pumps out heat (useful in teh winter months) like a mother****.

[gurubuzz]

Originally Posted by slobbermonster

buy 50 shares of copper stock like the company Freeport McMoRan (FCX)- it's up huge in only 3 months - Or buy Exxon (XOM)

Yeah or better still invest in a rainforest logging company...

all these new LDC manufacturers need Mahogany boxes to compete with Neumann....

And all new studio owners need a good healthy dose of Rainforest Hardwood..


I am kidding....

I wonder why Neumann need rain forest timber to make their boxes I for one have boycotted their products..


and boycotted any studio that used new wood when there is tonnes of recycled hard wood available from demolition companies...
and soft wood plantations..

Environmentally Friendly Studio.. ??

wow is that forward thinking or backward compatible..?

[Sid Viscous]

I'd pay off my credit cards that are full because of all the recording crap I bought.

[quincyg]

i would think that a decent digital mixer and patchbay would be nice. may a couple of standard mics, like a vintage u87.
as silly as it seems, i think you should spend whatever it takes to make the room look cool and have a nice vibe. that is what will bring in clients.

[lpkyer]

ADAM A7 pair (1000$)
Lavry Black DA10 (1000$ CLOCK THE 002 TO IT!!!)
Shure SM7B (300$ used)
Cascade Fathead (200$)
Daking IV pre (1500$)
Chameleon Labs 7602 (800$)

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by i51423

That doesn't fall anywhere close to under $5k.

Why not??
Depends what you get.. buy a new digital desk and lose 50% of the money within a year... or buy a decent older desk and it'll keep it's value
SSL alphalink cost me $2700. My 32 channel D&R (which is a great desk) cost me $3500, so yes a bit more, but hey...and everyone who records here thinks it sounds great. Demo's I just did, got a band signed and on a big tour. Sonically, I have NO issues with my gear.
New analogue, you could get an Oram 8T or an ATB for about $3k Only 16 channels, but again, I think this will sound better than the Tascam (which is a good digital desk btw).



So if you believe you will get better results with a Tascam fine, and if you think analogue equals neve prices, the feel free not to try, but my suggestion is totally in your budget if you try.
Or put it simply. If I was spending $5000, I would buy a decent (mid range) analogue desk and the SSL converters..

indeed.

[quincyg]

for about a grand you could get a ramsa da7. great digital board. main limitation is it can't do 96k.

[i51423]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

Why not??
Depends what you get.. buy a new digital desk and lose 50% of the money within a year... or buy a decent older desk and it'll keep it's value
SSL alphalink cost me $2700. My 32 channel D&R (which is a great desk) cost me $3500, so yes a bit more, but hey...and everyone who records here thinks it sounds great. Demo's I just did, got a band signed and on a big tour. Sonically, I have NO issues with my gear.
New analogue, you could get an Oram 8T or an ATB for about $3k Only 16 channels, but again, I think this will sound better than the Tascam (which is a good digital desk btw).



So if you believe you will get better results with a Tascam fine, and if you think analogue equals neve prices, the feel free not to try, but my suggestion is totally in your budget if you try.
Or put it simply. If I was spending $5000, I would buy a decent (mid range) analogue desk and the SSL converters..

indeed.

I just kind of assumed with the typical prices of consoles. I also remember the SSL converters to be pretty up there. I'd love to give an analog board a try, but we're in Pro Tools LE and I feel like it would be a waste of money to invest in a board we can't fully use. I feel the same way about the Tascam board. The jump up to HD is a reallllly big jump that we won't be able to afford for quite a while.

We're also both "all-digital" dudes and don't have much outboard gear at all. The switch to an analog deck would require at least a couple pieces of outboard. It might be a steep learning curve to lose the total recall that we're so used to, too. I hate to say it, but that's a side of recording we've never been too introduced to. I personally want to get well versed in it "just because."

I definitely appreciate your input on actual gear.. unlike 60% of the posts in this thread.

To those responding about putting the money towards the studio itself.. we've already got that situated for the most part. Making the studio look great is a big part of building this new place. Having a great looking setup is also something we want to do... I think my friend really wanted the Tascam for the "wow factor" of a big console. I don't know.

[i51423]

Originally Posted by quincyg

i would think that a decent digital mixer and patchbay would be nice. may a couple of standard mics, like a vintage u87.
as silly as it seems, i think you should spend whatever it takes to make the room look cool and have a nice vibe. that is what will bring in clients.

The only problem I have with a console right now is not being able to fully use it. We've only got 18 outputs in PT LE.

We've got an alright pile of mics right now. I'm sure we'll look to pick up more in the near future, though.


We've got:
-BLUE Dragonfly
-SM81 x2
-57/58s x8
-D112 x3
-C3000B x2
-MXL 991(like a 603S) x2
-Studio Projects B1

In the other studio, we've also got access to:
-AT 4050
-Rode NT4

I forget what else we've got. Nothing super super nice, but we all get by fine on what we've got now. The super nice mics will be a future upgrade for sure. I'd love a couple ribbons.

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by i51423

I just kind of assumed with the typical prices of consoles. I also remember the SSL converters to be pretty up there. I'd love to give an analog board a try, but we're in Pro Tools LE and I feel like it would be a waste of money to invest in a board we can't fully use. I feel the same way about the Tascam board. The jump up to HD is a reallllly big jump that we won't be able to afford for quite a while.

We're also both "all-digital" dudes and don't have much outboard gear at all. The switch to an analog deck would require at least a couple pieces of outboard. It might be a steep learning curve to lose the total recall that we're so used to, too. I hate to say it, but that's a side of recording we've never been too introduced to. I personally want to get well versed in it "just because."

I definitely appreciate your input on actual gear.. unlike 60% of the posts in this thread.

To those responding about putting the money towards the studio itself.. we've already got that situated for the most part. Making the studio look great is a big part of building this new place. Having a great looking setup is also something we want to do... I think my friend really wanted the Tascam for the "wow factor" of a big console. I don't know.

Cool
I certainly agree with the fact that you may lose things which are VERY important for you

Full recall and auto. Very useful.
Outboard. Yes, if you don't have much, then at least a digital desk does offer you gates and comps that will be decent enough.
The Tascam is a great Digital desk so maybe you should go that route..

I just meant that it is certainly possible to build a great small analogue studio these days for not much money..

Good luck

[ddageek]

5k 1st id spend $750 and have blacklion mod that 002. then ID spend about 2k on one LDC (Gefell, U87 Lawson Peluso which evere grabs you Telefunken ak47 ?) next 2k on 2 channels of good comps! If your against the blacklion then find a nice pre!
Why not specifics because I'm not you I don't know what sound you are looking for and I really don't want your stuff to sound like mine!

[Stevil]

coke & w h o r e Z

[i51423]

Originally Posted by ddageek

5k 1st id spend $750 and have blacklion mod that 002. then ID spend about 2k on one LDC (Gefell, U87 Lawson Peluso which evere grabs you Telefunken ak47 ?) next 2k on 2 channels of good comps! If your against the blacklion then find a nice pre!
Why not specifics because I'm not you I don't know what sound you are looking for and I really don't want your stuff to sound like mine!

Well we do have a UA610 and an 1176(Not the "real deal," I know.). So we've at least got a really colored pre and a solid comp.

We're mainly recording loud music. Lots of rock, hardcore, metal, pop punk, punk, thrash, etc. I also expect to do some quieter stuff, too. Mainly modern, loud music, though.

How long does the BLA mod take? I'm certainly intrigued, but I don't know how much down-time we can afford.

[Sid Viscous]

Originally Posted by Stevil

coke & w h o r e Z

What he said.

[i51423]

Originally Posted by Sid Viscous

What he said.

Don't worry. We're fully stocked.

[Sean Sullivan]

Turn around for the Black Lion Audio mod is usually a week. They schedule a time with you, you ship it to them, they work on it on your scheduled day, and ship it to you the next day.

I would seriously consider it. Here's what Jim at Black Lion Audio told me:
(The Digi002R) is just going to sound 100 times better. Also you might be pleased to know that the pres we upgrade in the basic 002 package are on par if not better than the Sytek unit you (I) have. If you went the tweak head route the pres would be gaining an additional 15db of headroom and would smoke the sytek pres. Also it would put your 002 on par if not better than an Apogee 16x series, inputs, clock, outputs.

So, for $750 you get 4 pres that are better then Sytek's (highly regarded around here) and conversion on par with a $3000 outboard unit. Once I sell some guitar amps I'm going to have this mod done.

The other $4250? Well, if you don't use outboard compression and effects I would spend it on a DI box like the Avalon U5 or Universal Audio SOLO series which will run you between $500-$800 depending on if you go the new or used route. I would probably buy another set of monitors like some NS-10s to A/B with your Events.

One important thing not to forget is if the instruments themselves don't sound good your recordings sure aren't. You can't rely on bands to have good gear to bring to the studio, so even if the two of your aren't musicians I would buy a studio drum kit and cymbals, bass amp, a few guitar amps, at least 2 quality guitars and a solid bass. Since your focus is rock, I think bands would want to use either a Fender, Mesa/Boogie, or Marshall amp. I would suggest a Deluxe Reverb, Triple Rectifier, and a JCM800. That right there is going to cost $3000. If you think you have instruments covered, I'd look at more microphones.

Minus the Black Lion Audio mod, another set of monitors, and the DI unit that still leaves about $3000, so I would suggest: Sennheiser MD421 (x2), Shure SM7B, AKG C414 (great as a studio pair), a ribbon microphone (Royer R-121, Beyer M160), Audio Technica 4033...that's probably close to $3000 if you buy used.

[i51423]

We've got lots of gear. We're both guitarists and drummers in bands. We'll have at least an 80s Yamaha kit, a 60s Revere kit, and an early-2000s Yamaha Maple Custom absolute with a slew of nice Zildjians and Sabians. The three engineers there are guitarists, too. We'll have a very diverse pile of amps and guitars to use.

I want to eventually look into a nice bass rig, but we're fine for now.

I'll definitely bring the BLA mod up to him. It sounds like it's very worthwhile.

I need to sit down and talk to him about what he wants to do. I'd like to have some comps for tracking and "color". I'll still be mixing in a different room most of the time, so anything I want to worry about for mixing will be figured when I can afford it.

Do you think the Octopre would be fine for just general use to keep on the ADAT ins? I'd love some character pres if we can afford them.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Sqye

.but SERIOUSLY? i can't work professionally with event monitors... i just CAN'T - so that would be the first real area i'd focus on..

that was the very first thing that struck me as well.

get real monitors, the kind you'll never have to upgrade, and everything you do will come together 5x faster, 10x easier, and will sound 50x better.

you cannot mix what you cannot hear. you can learn to get by on things like the events, but you will never hear everything that's going on because they simply do not give it to you.

ignore this truth at your own peril.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[i51423]

Any particular monitors you'd suggest? I really don't think my friend would be willing to drop $5k on monitors.

[nandoanalog]

Blowjob = 10$

5000$ = 500 blowjobs

Pretty awesome huh?

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by i51423

Any particular monitors you'd suggest? I really don't think my friend would be willing to drop $5k on monitors.

Very personal, but I am happy with a combination of Dynaudio BM6a and Tannoy AMS8 actives. I got lucky with the Tannoys as they were cheap on ebay ($600 or so the pair) and are really nice mid sized nearfield monitors. Compliment the Dynaudios nicely. If I can get it to sound good on both, it is good.
I also like Quested and many people rave about Focal's