Great River MP-500NV and Dan

[pan60]

pan60
Hi Boss I got the 500 form pre in, looks great. I was thinking (not sure that's all that great an idea), I think for the most part many in the world are very much aware of the Great River pre-amps as well as their sound. So the thought came to mind about a bit of an email interview on a few subjects as I go. I had a chat with Peter from A-Designs, he said you two had a great time at the show! Peter is a great guy! So anyway, I think a review / interview would be cool if you are up to it?


Dan Kennedy
Sure!

pan60
Cool! So lets start here.

Hi Dan, generally when I do a review I like to start by looking at build quality. I do this because if I plan to spend my ever so hard to come by money, I want gear that will last, and gear that will be serviceable in the future. I just have no interest in shoddily built gear.


Next I like to look at the company. I want to deal with companies that will stand behind their product and go out of their way to take care of their customers.


So, now, at last, how does it sound


Well this is my thought process on a product review. I look at it this way because if the build quality sucks, well how can one depend on it, and at the very worst time, failure will occur :( As far as the company, it just sucks when you get a piece of gear, you have a issue, and the company says well sorry we do not have time to screw with you. Or you get the hand off, you have so and so and you need to talk to such and such (who by the way just transferred you to so and so :( So we have to get by these issue before I even care what the gear sounds like.

Dan Kennedy
Because I come from a service tech background, I'm very aware of design and build quality being a very important part of a product. Most people in the audio industry don't know that Great River is also an OEM electronics supplier to a number of industries with very high standards of reliability and performance, including passenger elevators, HVAC systems, as well as metrology and control for the semiconductor manufacturing industry. So, performance, both when new, and for the extended lifetime of the product is a major part of my design.


If you have a problem with a Great River product, you talk to me, and it's me that fixes it once it gets here, because I want to know what failed, and why.


pan60
Dan, I want to bring up the surface mount topic as photos will be posted at some point. This will give you a chance to discuss it a bit. But first,

wow, I knew you had something to do with elevators, sounds like you are on top of the latest in the industry of electronics (by the way, I want to talk in the future about plate reverb's but that will be another time ). It is to anyone in the audio industry, most likely difficult to say they have never heard of Great River. Many know the sound, as well as the quality. It seems to me that the same care and quality has been passed on to the MP-500NV. I see some nice looking trannies in here, and when it comes to gear I have a passion for transformers and pre-amps with trannies always seem to trip my trigger. Things look nicely shielded, that is always a plus I see some surface mount tech in here as well. Seems I remember reading something by you in the past discussing surface mount tech and how when used correctly and in the correct placing there is nothing wrong with it's use. Could you elaborate on the trannies and educate some of us a bit on the surface mount stuff? Out of my ignorance, I have shied away from new tech (I am limited to changing a large cap in an old tube amp and thats about it). Let some of us know why there should be no fear.


Dan Kennedy
One of the issues in the design of the MP-500NV is the simple fact that the output transformer is larger than one API rack space already, so once I knew I was going to need two spaces, it all went together fairly easily.


The chassis wraps around all of the electronics, to offer both mechanical stability as well as shielding from crosstalk with adjacent modules and power supply noise.


All of the audio components are the same as those used in either the ME-1NV or in an MP-2NV. Exactly the same, from the same parts bins.


There are a few surface mount parts, used in some of the filtering circuits of the power supply. I have no fear of using surface mount, as long as it's a valid engineering choice. In the case of the filter components, they are superior to leaded versions because they have lower parasitic resistances and inductances which makes them very effective at the frequencies the supply is operating.


I find surface mount parts very easy to work with, but that's because I do it all of the time and have the right tools, if all you have is a bunch of electricians tools and an old soldering gun, well, it would be a challenge.



pan60
In the old soldering gun group here, other than that, I was not aware of any other electricians tools. Well I do have some side cutter's


As I have mentioned in the past I am not real sure about where I stand on the matter of two slots verses one, but I think I can easily sacrifice a slot for a purpose, and at this point sound will be a purpose.


I probably have way more questions than really needed but I did want to touch on a couple things that may have come up in the past, but there maybe some of us in the dark as to many points of discussion on a subject matter. Needless to say I would like to get a bit broad in the topic.


What got you into audio gear and specifically making pre-amps for that matter? Did the other business ventures come first or just a byproduct of being into electronics? Not to get off topic, but let me inject here, the build on this is great! I love it!



Dan Kennedy
I started in the hi-fi business, as an assembly person, building DynaKits for a local guy who hot-rodded them. From there I got into live sound, traveling around, living in a truck doing shows all over the country. I was the head tech there, built a lot of gear that wasn't available over the counter at the time, learned a lot. Studio work followed after that, I did some engineering, but mostly tech and design work.


Then my career went industrial, and for a while I worked for a company that did OEM designs in industrial automation and also some ham radio equipment. That one folded, so another guy and I formed Great River in his basement, we started with the industrial stuff, but my studio past came back to haunt me, a bunch of locals kept pestering me to build pre-amps, so we made it a real product, the MP-2MH. That hooked me up with Fletcher, and it's just been steady growth since then.


pan60
Got to love those old DynaKit mono blocks. I have had a few over the years. Also the McIntosh MC-30's and MC-60's. Still have my MC-30's, I don't think I will ever part with them. Knowing that, will be no surprise to many.


So let me ask, did you have a sound in mind when your designed your pre-amps? Were you trying to improve a sound from another pre you liked or were you going for*something*different?


It seems these fall in a*flavor I think it would be hard not to love! Also I read on a post you are*using the guys at Latchlake for your metal work. Very nice to keep things local when possible.


So before I get to how much I love the sound, what would you say would be the best application for this pre? I mean where do you feel it will shine the most -*bass, guitar, vocals, kick - you get the point? No fear guys, this is one sweet pre. You could use it on anything, a rack of these would set anyone up very nicely and you would not need anything more as far as pre's go!

*
Dan Kennedy The sound of the NV's is a compromise on the larger than life, over the top bottom and soft smeary highs of the '70's vintage electronics. Think of a 1073 or an Ampex 440. It's neat, but it's too much. So, transformers for color, and electrical advantages like noise rejection and voltage gain. Then speed up the electronics, drop the noise and distortion, use modern, available parts with good track records and the NV is what you get.
There really isn't anything the pre-amp does poorly. It is a very good all around performer. Strongest in maybe bass, guitar and drums, anything you really want meat, but not fat or flab.

pan60
So to the point, do I like it? Oh baby do I like it!


I just could not help but think smooth*creamy*chocolate as I run a P-style G&L bass into a vintage Ampeg B-15, the big RE-20 and wow there it was - that sound! Okay enough with the drool


I really like the bottom on this pre, very warm and sweet, gives you that feeling of comfort.


I run the RED Type A with a R-7 head in-front of the bass, and once again, it was as sweet as candy. Nice and dark but lots of clarity.


I liked it on kick drum as well. I also tried it with the RE-20 and the RED with the R-7 head, can't lose.


This pre really likes dynamic microphones, and I like dynamic microphones, so that is real cool. Slammed*a RE-16 on my snare and crack, I loved it. The impedance is very nice, it goes from 1200 ohms to 300 ohms. This maybe why this pre likes the dynamic microphones so much The loading function, is as well, very nice. A very sweet function. Seems a bit more open, very nice for some things.


And of course there happens to be the polarity and phantom that is almost expected on pre-amps today. The*build is great. Everything fits like it should. Everything feels good.


So? What is it I don't like? Well I did not like the little LED's sticking out so much. I hit them with my fingers (I have large hands), when selecting loading, impedance, polarity, or phantom. I like pots that feel a bit stiffer than the output cal. pot does, but it is top*quality so I can't*really ding it too much.


So in the end, I have tracked kick, snare, bass, electric guitar, and vocals, so I will once again say, you cannot lose with this pre! It sounds great on anything you throw at it. Everything I hit this pre with sounded great and it seems to set very well with my other 500 form pres. It is an awesome piece of gear (and an accompaniment to other pre-amps), particularly for rounding out the bottom. To me, this is clearly the sign of a really great*piece of gear - period. I would, without any hesitation recommend this pre to anyone in the market looking to expand on what they already have or just looking to get started with the 500 form systems. I like it enough that I have no plan of returning it Sorry Dan, but I am keeping this bad boy.


Great job!


So let me ask - are there any plans for taking*advantage of the*second slot in*future runs?



Dan Kennedy Hi pan60. Glad you like it!

I do have a plan to offer a small accessory circuit board, with some connecting wires that will offer the -10 out at the XLR of the second slot, and also allow use of the patch loop externally, although this will require a specially wired cable that might be beyond a lot of operators.

About those pokey, pesky LEDs, on the next run I'm going to put a set of washers between the panel and the circuit board, that'll put them back another 32nd of an inch or so, they'll be pretty close to a standard chassis mount NV then.


pan60 Anything else you want to add before I ( which really stands for my wife ) start editing my poor grammar and putting this together? Would you like to say anything about your trannies or is that all top secret?


Dan Kennedy The only thing about the trannies is they are exactly the same custom wound Sowters used in the ME-1NV and the MP-2NV.

I've been out of the office on an industrial project, heading back into it soon, I will probably not be real available again until Friday afternoon.

Unless I find beer first, then look for me Monday...


pan60 I think I will rap it up Is there anything else you would like to add?

Dan Kennedy I think that about covers it.



pan60
thanks Dan!

[HIGHENDONLY]

Nice job!!No youtube video of this

[pan60]

Originally Posted by HIGHENDONLY

Nice job!!No youtube video of this

thanks
i am not really that up on youtube, but i am working on it.

[Chris]

I bought an mp2nv a couple years ago (had to sell it evenutally :() and Dan sent me a coffee mug.

I love those guys. I'm defintely getting at least one 500nv. Hopefully two.

[warhead]

Pan60, you are quite possibly the most enthusiastic 500 form user EVER!!!

I love it.

War

[Animus]

hey I got a coffee mug too and I use it all the time. I love my ME1nv too. ;-)

[emfrank72]

Sounds like I should register my MP-500NV and maybe I can get a coffee mug?

[Marjan]

Originally Posted by pan60

Dan: "If you have a problem with a Great River product, you talk to me, and it's me that fixes it once it gets here, because I want to know what failed, and why.

That's the business...
No wonder your products are trully amazing...

[pan60]

now i want a coffee mug

[juledude]

Thanks folks,

Makes me feel good to know there is still gear out there built not only to do the job, but to last.

Excellent review.

Jule

[Tundradawg]

Excellent review!!!

[NathanEldred]

Good job thumbsup

[pan60]

you guys rock!!!!!!!
thanks for the thumbs up.
i just hope Dan likes it

[pan60]

thanks for the questions youngrob i hope this helps.

i do not have a ME-1NV so i can not honestly say anything in regards to comparison other than what i am told.
i have been, ( and i believe truthfully so ) the difference is only in fitting the MP-500NV into the 500 form format.


[QUOTE=youngrob]Hi, sorry to bother you, but I have a few questions about the Mp-500NV compared to the ME-1NV on vocals.

Originally Posted by youngrob

Questions:

Is there in difference in quality?

i do not believe their would be a difference in quality.

Originally Posted by youngrob

Is the ME-1NV worth the extra $300?

i would say so but if you have a 500 form rack or lunchbox then i would go for the MP-500NV!

Originally Posted by youngrob

If I purchase the MP-500NV will I still be able to use a compressor and eq with it?

i would see no reason why you would not be able to use any peice of outboard gear you choose with the MP-500NV or the ME-1NV

Originally Posted by youngrob

and last but not least, probably the most difficult.

Which one would you get?

Thanks for your time.

personally i would go with the 500 format as it is a nice system with lots of chooses available.
EQs, Compressor, and lots of different flavors of PRE

i plan to post this under the review so maybe others can get so good from these questions, cool?
i will also see if i can get someone who possibly has experience with both units to chime in.
thanks
pan60

[pan60]

hear is a Quote from Dan in a email i just received.

Cool by me.

I had a couple of young engineers the day I did the listening tests, none of us could hear any difference at all between the MP-500NV and the MP-2NV we brought along as a standard.

Dan

[midnightsun]

Great River will be on my Christmas wish list.

[pan60]

just a bump for anyone that may have missed this
and watch for a few more review / interviews coming very soon!

[Jonathan Starr]

Thanks for the fine review, Brother Panhead.

I love my ME1NV, just recorded a fun, fine album of sea shantys with it, and I'm glad to know we can get the same great stuff in the 500 form factor.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Starr

Thanks for the fine review, Brother Panhead.

I love my ME1NV, just recorded a fun, fine album of sea shantys with it, and I'm glad to know we can get the same great stuff in the 500 form factor.

thanks you very much
i have some new reviews coming soon!

[reflexon]

I feel the need to echo the outstanding service from the Great River guys. I had a pot break on my mp2nv. The unit was more than 2 years old and I sent it to Dan. He sent it back fixed 3 days later and even paid for the shipping on the way back. He was very courteous throughout my brief encounter and really made me feel great about a piece of gear that I already love.

Thanks Dan.thumbsup

Also, thanks for the review pan. I don't know how much longer I can hold out on this 500 thing.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by reflexon

I feel the need to echo the outstanding service from the Great River guys.
He was very courteous throughout my brief encounter and really made me feel great about a piece of gear that I already love.

Thanks Dan.thumbsup

Also, thanks for the review pan. I don't know how much longer I can hold out on this 500 thing.

reflexon
thank you
as mentioned in the interview Dan it shows just how passionate he is about seeing the customer is taken care of

[pan60]

a bump for anyone who may have missed it~

[Happy Piranha]

I am an enthusiastic API 512c guy. Always been my favorite. I put my new MP-500NV in and HOLY CRAP. There's the sweet air I have been missing in my tracks that EQ didn't quite get right. It touched me where I pee. I can't believe I actually like something better than my trusty API.

[Wes Kuhnley]

Originally Posted by Happy Piranha

I am an enthusiastic API 512c guy. Always been my favorite. I put my new MP-500NV in and HOLY CRAP. There's the sweet air I have been missing in my tracks that EQ didn't quite get right. It touched me where I pee. I can't believe I actually like something better than my trusty API.

Try a Buzz Elixer or 2.2 next. Those don't just TOUCH you where you pee...

[pan60]

Originally Posted by Wes Kuhnley

Try a Buzz Elixer or 2.2 next.

yes but the MP-500NV rules the bottom~

[roger]

you hope dan likes your review?????!!!!!!!

????!!!!!

[pan60]

Dan, as well as any of the manufactures i work with, know straight up front, i will not play favorites as to the promotion of this format, provided i like the product, but i will voice my opinion as to what i like.
so lets look

Originally Posted by Happy Piranha

I am an enthusiastic API 512c guy. Always been my favorite. I put my new MP-500NV in and HOLY CRAP. There's the sweet air I have been missing in my tracks that EQ didn't quite get right. It touched me where I pee. I can't believe I actually like something better than my trusty API.

this user states

Originally Posted by Happy Piranha

There's the sweet air I have been missing in my tracks that EQ didn't quite get right. It touched me where I pee.

seems he has found some air!!!!
wow!
and Wes Kuhnley says

Originally Posted by Wes Kuhnley

Try a Buzz Elixer or 2.2 next. Those don't just TOUCH you where you pee...

air~
so, i see no issue.
having said that however, i will add, i did not even relies this was the review thread, or i would not have posted, but that dose not change that fact that i did like the buzz , i felt it had a great top and a solid bottom, i feel it rules the bottom, and i have said that on a regular basis.
as well i do not think Dan would have a issue with my statement.
matter of fact i will forward this link to him.
i'll even forward a link to Tim will that make you happy?

Originally Posted by roger

you hope dan likes your review?????!!!!!!!

????!!!!!

well to make you happy roger
i added my thoughts as to the bottom to my post.
now please stop badgering me because i disagree with you on a issue, or two.
thank you

[TRW]

edited due to lack of information on my part

please delete the quote Peter...

T

[DRC]

Originally Posted by Happy Piranha

It touched me where I pee.

This should certainly be someone's sig.

[Dan Kennedy]

Oh, lets see, where to start.

Pan and Peter and I are friends first, competitors second, so we talk about all kinds of stuff that people would be surprised about.

I'm also a friend of Tim's, and am enthusiastic about his products too. I own several, and that's where Wes comes in, because he works for me and gets to play with my toys when he hasn't been a complete p.i.t.a.

I think Pan's review is fine, it's the way he see's the product, and that's cool, because everybody has a different take on things. He bought his 500 by the way...

Pan is extremely enthusiastic about the 500 format, and I'm glad he is, but he doesn't get anything from me for it.