Kick Drums: The latest war

CorkyTart · 16th July 2007, 01:43 AM

Anyone notice how phucking loud they are getting?

peat · 16th July 2007, 02:10 AM

sure do

take a listen to 'the dark eternal night'
from dream theater's latest album 'systematic chaos'

i think in some parts they are even a touch too loud

AlexLakis · 16th July 2007, 02:43 AM

Totally too loud. Have been for a few years now.

PhiloBeddoe · 16th July 2007, 02:50 AM

Yeah, I assume you're talking about metal here. I only listen to a little metal, but my reference is the station "Hard Attack" on Sirius. I have come to the conclusion that kick drums are the lead instrument. The vocal is a distant second or third. Maybe people are scared of the cookie monster being in their face;)

AlexLakis · 16th July 2007, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiloBeddoe

Yeah, I assume you're talking about metal here. I only listen to a little metal, but my reference is the station "Hard Attack" on Sirius. I have come to the conclusion that kick drums are the lead instrument. The vocal is a distant second or third. Maybe people are scared of the cookie monster being in their face;)

It's a shame too, because the kick is usually just replaced with a single sample. Talk about a boring "lead instrument!"

gurubuzz · 16th July 2007, 03:20 AM

Guys...it's about feeling the rhythm.

Your chest and bowel cavity vibrate sympathetically to the kick.

Years ago low frequencies were taken out because a record would jump out of a track if you had too much...

I love kick and bass with the kick ducking the bass....

and I think cheap speakers have got better so lots of people can enjoy low frequencies and KICK..KICK..KICK..KICK...

AlexLakis · 16th July 2007, 03:27 AM

I fully understand the role of kick and bass.

I appreciate all of the frequencies in the spectrum.

If one is too loud, it's too loud. In my opinion, kicks have been getting mixed up a little too loud in general in the past few years.

That is all.

Silver Sonya · 16th July 2007, 03:44 AM

i don't listen to any current rock music, but i can tell you that classic ac/dc is all about the kick drum. ac/dc was actually a dance band in the guise of hard rock. :)

- c

bigbone · 16th July 2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I fully understand the role of kick and bass.

I appreciate all of the frequencies in the spectrum.

If one is too loud, it's too loud. In my opinion, kicks have been getting mixed up a little too loud in general in the past few years.

That is all.

so what's the big deal with that......

AlexLakis · 16th July 2007, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbone

so what's the big deal with that......

Other than the fact that I think it's mixed too loud and it's kind of distracting to me when listening to a lot of modern music? Nothing, I guess...

ianvargo · 16th July 2007, 05:33 AM

I think that most of the kicks in modern music sound kind of crappy, in addition to being too loud. I like something with more room and warmth and musicality, I can't remember the last CD I heard from a new band that didn't have a kick sound like an abrupt thud. Maybe Ben Folds Rockin' the Suburbs that record is recorded and mixed almost perfectly, Andy Wallace.

andymixer · 16th July 2007, 05:39 AM

I believe Ben Grosse produced and mixed "Rockin The Suburbs".

CorkyTart · 16th July 2007, 05:51 AM

The thing that made me finally say WTF was the new Dream Theater and the new Chevelle. Those are two CDS I picked up within the last several weeks and at first listen, the Chevelle kick was so loud, I actually thought for a second that I had either blown a speaker, changed a setting or did something "wrong" with my setup.

Its strange how by todays standards an album like Back In Black that pretty much everyone agrees sounds great would most likely be considered to be mixed "wrong". That is because the kick is "low" snare sounds "weak" (Because they arent sampled and slammed) and how the bass isn't "present" since it isn't going through limiters and distortion pedals.

People are finally coming around to the volume wars and there will be a day when people say enough is enough with the frickin kick drum.

RoundBadge · 16th July 2007, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorkyTart

Anyone notice how phucking loud they are getting?

Agreed..
and some of those god awful in your face digital samples that everyone seems to use nowadays

..

Pure homogenized artificial shit.

put on an old Faces or Zep record and someone tell me you don't feel it..
sounds like a guys rockin in a room..with "Air" around the kit...
you could tell who was playing and they each had a recognizable sound.
whether it was Alex Van Halen,Charlie Watts,whatever.

the majority of modern rock mixes sound like kaka to me anyways..
just go listen to the latest "Panic at the disco" crap

picksail · 16th July 2007, 06:41 AM

A friend and longtime Gearslut mentioned to me that he likes the kick to make your heart skip a beat and the snare to make you squint.

If it's meant to rock then let it rock!!!

DirkB · 16th July 2007, 07:54 AM

Little OT: man, that last Chevelle CD sucks!
The one before that, mixed by AW, is loud, but sounds awsome. The new one has sampled kick/snare sounds and sounds very snapped to grid. Too bad...

Greetings,
Dirk

H-Rezz · 16th July 2007, 07:58 AM

This is what happens when Hip Hop and RnB influence Rock , Heavy Kick and a consistent snare , say it aint so !

Drumsound · 16th July 2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaza2

when you see a live show the kick drum is not to low, is it ? Ive only heard kick drums to loud at a show a time or 2

I seem to see the exact opposite. Almost every FOH guy has the BD and a completely stupid and unmusically loud level. They all run the subs too loud and and the detail of the music is shot.

d. gauss · 16th July 2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Totally too loud. Have been for a few years now.

a few years? how 'bout talking heads' "and she was," jeez...that was 20 years ago :)

SlingeroGuitaro · 16th July 2007, 08:46 AM

so, your thoughts on this kick: too loud, soft, shitty?

picksail · 16th July 2007, 08:49 AM

ABBA had huge kicks and nobody seemed to complain.

Improv · 16th July 2007, 09:19 AM

I mix my kicks "too loud"

My clients love it.

I love it.

Rock on

84K · 16th July 2007, 10:06 AM

just listened to Dr. Feelgood. The kick is soooo loud. That was my last thought an hour ago when I got out of my truck. I come in and here is this thread. That Bob Rock production is quite a few years old now.

gurubuzz · 16th July 2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-Rezz

This is what happens when Hip Hop and RnB influence Rock , Heavy Kick and a consistent snare , say it aint so !

It's more like techno and Trance influencing rock.

Hard rock and trance are so similar in the deadly riffs and bpm's

I cant wait for the day when every band has 2 drummers one running a Groovebox.

and synths what happened to synths in rock.....?????

Ultravox ruled

Plec · 16th July 2007, 01:17 PM

I just think it's an effect of sloppy playing, production and writing.

I mean, take them drumtracks, quantize the shit out of them and then mix the kick really loud so it at least seems that someone in the band knows what the hell they're doing!

heyman · 16th July 2007, 01:52 PM

I would rather hear a louder than normal natural kick sound.... than grid laid, sampled bullshit..

Enough with the sampled kick drum and snare sounds..

Your not fooling anybody..

chetatkinsdiet · 16th July 2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

i don't listen to any current rock music, but i can tell you that classic ac/dc is all about the kick drum. ac/dc was actually a dance band in the guise of hard rock. :)

- c

You beat me to this....Highway to Hell's kick sound/level is about as good as it gets. It's totally upfront but not in a bad way.

That sampled double-bass patterns are a complete power-down. I don't care how good the music is, when I hear that I turn it off.

m

heyman · 16th July 2007, 02:45 PM

Listen to Zep's "in the Evening" or "Kashmir"

Talk about emotion and feeling..

That Kick drum is alive...

kats · 16th July 2007, 03:33 PM

We did this song...non metal, barely rock but the kick sound was simply delicious. The louder we turned it the better everything sounded.

Personally I like something just a little outta wack - gives the song character.

A good example is Karma Police by Radiohead. I think a "White Coat" would say the drums are too loud in the mix for that type of song - but isn't that what makes it perfect?

Jim Williams · 16th July 2007, 04:48 PM

This has been going on since disco. Even Ed Kramer's Hendrix remixes have a kick all over the place, Hendrix must be flipping in his grave.

Sometimes it's flattering to the song, Pink's You and Your Hand is a good example.

My beef is where's the bass guitar? Many of these mixers seen to forget about that track it's so buried.

Don't get me started on deaf live sound mixers that get off on the kick drum power trip thing. When that happens to me, they hear about it, big time. If they don't respond, I'll get a group of guys together to "discuss" it with them. As long as they know they will never get out of the venue alive, they do respond.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

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16th July 2007, 01:43 AM	#1
CorkyTart Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a house Posts: 1,161	Kick Drums: The latest war Anyone notice how phucking loud they are getting? Last edited by CorkyTart; 16th July 2007 at 01:57 AM.. Reason: Devil made me do it.

16th July 2007, 05:39 AM	#12
andymixer Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 99	I believe Ben Grosse produced and mixed "Rockin The Suburbs". __________________ www.myspace.com/andymixer

16th July 2007, 06:41 AM	#15
picksail Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 3,326	A friend and longtime Gearslut mentioned to me that he likes the kick to make your heart skip a beat and the snare to make you squint. If it's meant to rock then let it rock!!! __________________ Stewart Cararas Seventh Level Productions Myspace Profile Discogs _________________________________ The new is necessarily abstract - Rudolf Borchadt

16th July 2007, 07:54 AM	#16
DirkB Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,468	Little OT: man, that last Chevelle CD sucks! The one before that, mixed by AW, is loud, but sounds awsome. The new one has sampled kick/snare sounds and sounds very snapped to grid. Too bad... Greetings, Dirk __________________ -progress takes away what forever took to find- Dave Matthews

16th July 2007, 02:10 AM	#2
peat Gear maniac Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 241	sure do take a listen to 'the dark eternal night' from dream theater's latest album 'systematic chaos' i think in some parts they are even a touch too loud

16th July 2007, 02:43 AM	#3
AlexLakis Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Annapolis, MD/L.A. Posts: 3,612	Totally too loud. Have been for a few years now.

16th July 2007, 02:50 AM	#4
PhiloBeddoe Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 159	Yeah, I assume you're talking about metal here. I only listen to a little metal, but my reference is the station "Hard Attack" on Sirius. I have come to the conclusion that kick drums are the lead instrument. The vocal is a distant second or third. Maybe people are scared of the cookie monster being in their face;)

16th July 2007, 03:20 AM	#6
gurubuzz Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 621	Guys...it's about feeling the rhythm. Your chest and bowel cavity vibrate sympathetically to the kick. Years ago low frequencies were taken out because a record would jump out of a track if you had too much... I love kick and bass with the kick ducking the bass.... and I think cheap speakers have got better so lots of people can enjoy low frequencies and KICK..KICK..KICK..KICK...

16th July 2007, 03:27 AM	#7
AlexLakis Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Annapolis, MD/L.A. Posts: 3,612	I fully understand the role of kick and bass. I appreciate all of the frequencies in the spectrum. If one is too loud, it's too loud. In my opinion, kicks have been getting mixed up a little too loud in general in the past few years. That is all.

16th July 2007, 03:44 AM	#8
Silver Sonya Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,528	i don't listen to any current rock music, but i can tell you that classic ac/dc is all about the kick drum. ac/dc was actually a dance band in the guise of hard rock. :) - c

16th July 2007, 05:33 AM	#11
ianvargo Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 148	I think that most of the kicks in modern music sound kind of crappy, in addition to being too loud. I like something with more room and warmth and musicality, I can't remember the last CD I heard from a new band that didn't have a kick sound like an abrupt thud. Maybe Ben Folds Rockin' the Suburbs that record is recorded and mixed almost perfectly, Andy Wallace.

16th July 2007, 05:51 AM	#13
CorkyTart Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a house Posts: 1,161	The thing that made me finally say WTF was the new Dream Theater and the new Chevelle. Those are two CDS I picked up within the last several weeks and at first listen, the Chevelle kick was so loud, I actually thought for a second that I had either blown a speaker, changed a setting or did something "wrong" with my setup. Its strange how by todays standards an album like Back In Black that pretty much everyone agrees sounds great would most likely be considered to be mixed "wrong". That is because the kick is "low" snare sounds "weak" (Because they arent sampled and slammed) and how the bass isn't "present" since it isn't going through limiters and distortion pedals. People are finally coming around to the volume wars and there will be a day when people say enough is enough with the frickin kick drum.

16th July 2007, 07:58 AM	#17
H-Rezz Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,382	This is what happens when Hip Hop and RnB influence Rock , Heavy Kick and a consistent snare , say it aint so !

16th July 2007, 08:49 AM	#21
picksail Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 3,326	ABBA had huge kicks and nobody seemed to complain. __________________ Stewart Cararas Seventh Level Productions Myspace Profile Discogs _________________________________ The new is necessarily abstract - Rudolf Borchadt

16th July 2007, 09:19 AM	#22
Improv Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,367	I mix my kicks "too loud" My clients love it. I love it. Rock on

16th July 2007, 10:06 AM	#23
84K Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: right coast Posts: 3,810	just listened to Dr. Feelgood. The kick is soooo loud. That was my last thought an hour ago when I got out of my truck. I come in and here is this thread. That Bob Rock production is quite a few years old now.

16th July 2007, 01:17 PM	#25
Plec Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 139	I just think it's an effect of sloppy playing, production and writing. I mean, take them drumtracks, quantize the shit out of them and then mix the kick really loud so it at least seems that someone in the band knows what the hell they're doing! __________________ Keep It Heavy! Sound=Distorsion=Music www.myspace.com/plecprod www.panicroom-mastering.com

16th July 2007, 01:52 PM	#26
heyman Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Waterbury CT, then Providence, RI Posts: 1,938	I would rather hear a louder than normal natural kick sound.... than grid laid, sampled bullshit.. Enough with the sampled kick drum and snare sounds.. Your not fooling anybody.. __________________ Teee hee ha ha .... I wanna play wit chew. Butter's Does Samwell! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4y...-in-the-bu_fun

16th July 2007, 02:45 PM	#28
heyman Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Waterbury CT, then Providence, RI Posts: 1,938	Listen to Zep's "in the Evening" or "Kashmir" Talk about emotion and feeling.. That Kick drum is alive... __________________ Teee hee ha ha .... I wanna play wit chew. Butter's Does Samwell! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4y...-in-the-bu_fun

16th July 2007, 03:33 PM	#29
kats Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,367	We did this song...non metal, barely rock but the kick sound was simply delicious. The louder we turned it the better everything sounded. Personally I like something just a little outta wack - gives the song character. A good example is Karma Police by Radiohead. I think a "White Coat" would say the drums are too loud in the mix for that type of song - but isn't that what makes it perfect?

16th July 2007, 04:48 PM	#30
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 4,335	This has been going on since disco. Even Ed Kramer's Hendrix remixes have a kick all over the place, Hendrix must be flipping in his grave. Sometimes it's flattering to the song, Pink's You and Your Hand is a good example. My beef is where's the bass guitar? Many of these mixers seen to forget about that track it's so buried. Don't get me started on deaf live sound mixers that get off on the kick drum power trip thing. When that happens to me, they hear about it, big time. If they don't respond, I'll get a group of guys together to "discuss" it with them. As long as they know they will never get out of the venue alive, they do respond. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades