XLR vs. RCA unbalanced

[soupking]

Does the sound quality differ much in sending a signal through an RCA versus a balanced XLR. Or is the diiference mostly a risk of noise interference?

[APOHStudios]

Primarily interference and signal quality due to any interference.

In general, an "XLR" cable is a balanced cable with XLR connectors on it and an "RCA" cable is an unbalanced cable with RCA connectors on it. You need to be sure of what type of cable you are using, not just the connectors. Radio Smack sells "XLR" cables for mics that are not balanced (no shield).

In order to understand how this works, a balanced cable is an assembly of two or more primary conductors and a shield. That shield is is usually connected to ground through the equipment or in some cases "floated"/not connected to the equipment on one end. That shield, well shields the conductors within the assembly from unwanted outside interference and electronic noise. In turn it is eventually drained back onto the ground. This allows the signal to stay clean farther

But short runs in a "electronically quiet" area balanced cabling is not necessary, unless you have any radio stations nearby. Then you might be forced to listen to Easy Listening or a local mariachi station because your unbalanced cable has just become an antenna. Just be prepared to use balanced.

[soupking]

But short runs in a "electronically quiet" area balanced cabling is not necessary, unless you have any radio stations nearby. Then you might be forced to listen to Easy Listening or a local mariachi station because your unbalanced cable has just become an antenna. Just be prepared to use balanced.

K, I'm running a short cable from my mixer to tape and it's unbalanced. I'm wondering if it's going to be a major concern. I am in L.A., but I'm in a wasteland portion of it.

[tINY]

Ground noise is the biggest problem with unbalanced connections. To a lesser extent, it's a problem with a suprising number of XLR inputs too - bad grounding design is a pox on the audio world....

BTW, you can have a balanced signal without a ground connection (ethernet is like this). But, unbalanced always has to have a return path through a ground wire.



-tINY

[soupking]

Cool, thanks Tiny!

[Ant232]

Originally Posted by soupking

Does the sound quality differ much in sending a signal through an RCA versus a balanced XLR. Or is the diiference mostly a risk of noise interference?

Unbalanced by default is 6db lower than balanced. So if you run something unbalanced your closer to the noise floor..

Balanced good.. me like balanced...

[soupking]

Unbalanced by default is 6db lower than balanced. So if you run something unbalanced your closer to the noise floor..

Balanced good.. me like balanced...

Yikes, it's a good thing my monitors/master are set-up to read return from tape.

[wilcofan]

After using a number of tape machines of varying qualities I discovered that not all balanced circuits are equal. Most often when dealing with tape machines I preferred the unbalanced in/out. These have been in small setups, BTW, in the big rooms I rarely found the time to even make sure the thing was plugged in! ;)

Generally if a box has an unbalanced jack I try it first. (we ARE talking about rock music, right?)

Recently I rewired new dedicated power outlets in my home studio and got rid of all the suppressors and switches. Up until then my Tascam ATR60's unbalanced in/out's were unusable due to ground noise and I had no choice but to use the balanced ones. With the new power I made some 12' RCA cables and was shocked how quiet the unbalanced line was, even quieter than the balanced before.

As for tone, it was no contest to me. The tape reproduction opened up with more transient response and less accentuated bass. My Millennia TD-1's sometimes sound better on a source with the unbalanced outputs too...

[soupking]

As for tone, it was no contest to me. The tape reproduction opened up with more transient response and less accentuated bass. My Millennia TD-1's sometimes sound better on a source with the unbalanced outputs too...

What can I say? I'm an idiot. If I wanted software, I'd get a job.

Thanks for the input man, I'm soaking in all I can.

[stevep]

Your tape machine has RCA connectors right ? You should have no problem as long as the in and outs to the desk are unbalanced -10

or you will need balanced converters, thats what i do for any unbalanced gear

that will bring the -10 up to +4 and balance the signal. and the +4 to -10


As for the RCA connectors.... I have bought lots,.... and most have or will fail !

I started making my own using Switchcraft connectors

If you need 32 RCA connectors for your machine, making your own will be the cheapest and the best quality


.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Ant232

Unbalanced by default is 6db lower than balanced. So if you run something unbalanced your closer to the noise floor..

That is not true. Check your facts.

[ronzie]

Thanks Bill, saved me the trouble of a rant.

Ron Allaire, Skyline

[nosebleedaudio]

The fact that some large consoles sends are unbalanced shows it can be done with no problems.
And just because something is balanced out doesn't mean it will be quieter.

[Ant232]

Originally Posted by drBill

That is not true. Check your facts.

Ok, I'm going to have to be enlightened here if someone wouldn't mind??

Difference between -10 and +4 is 6db?? Is that right?

Or was is the noise floor bit?

Just trying to learn from a mistake..

[peat]

Originally Posted by Ant232

Ok, I'm going to have to be enlightened here if someone wouldn't mind??

Difference between -10 and +4 is 6db?? Is that right?

Or was is the noise floor bit?

Just trying to learn from a mistake..

firstly the difference between -10 and +4 is 14

but they are referenced to different things
dBm and dbu possibly (could be wrong here)

basically -10 is about .07 of a volt
and +4 is about 1.7

again my numbers could be wrong
couldnt be bothered to look it up

[Ant232]

Thanks Pete..

I think I know where I was getting it mixed up. If you have tone from a balanced source reading 0db on a meter and you unbalance the source (by grounding the negative) then you get a 6db drop in level.

This is where I was getting the 6db difference between bal & unbal..

[nosebleedaudio]

[quote=Ant232;1378577]Thanks Pete..

I think I know where I was getting it mixed up. If you have tone from a balanced source reading 0db on a meter and you unbalance the source (by grounding the negative) then you get a 6db drop in level.

If I reading you correctly, don't ground the negative, leave it open or NC.
Where the 6db drop comes in is when you have a electronic bananced out and you drop the negative you loose half the signal which is 6db. a 6db increase or decrease is half or double the level, depending on which direction your going.
If its a transformer output you don't loose any level.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Ant232

If you have tone from a balanced source reading 0db on a meter and you unbalance the source (by grounding the negative) then you get a 6db drop in level.

This is where I was getting the 6db difference between bal & unbal..

Ant232, sorry to be busting your chops, but again not true. It MIGHT be true, but it's not a given fact - it depends on the type of balanced output. Transformer bal output vs. active balanced (designed to act like a transformer) output vs. active balanced output. They all react differently to unbalancing. Just unbalancing does not guarantee that you will have a drop in level.

[Ant232]

DrBill,

No chops busted here. I have now learned something new..

Thanks