output from daw to summing box (buss or no buss)

[kingsley]

I have a fulcrom set up with digital performer.

I use 1-8 chan. for my audio sends ( drum buss, guit buss etc.). 9-16 are my effect returns (reverb, transient designer etc.)

Ive been told for maximum headroom to send my individual tracks straight out to the fulcrum-no buss.
example------kick > output 1&2 apogee 800
snare > output 1&2 apogee 800
tom > output 1&2 apogee 800
etc.---for drums

guits > output 3&4 apogee 800
etc.

*? the only clipping meter i have is the individual output of each track. I dont have a meter for the sum of all my drum tracks since i dont have a buss out. On the apogee stuff they do not supply a d/a clip meter.
I spoke tp apogee and they said you basicly do not clip the d/a converter you clip the software suppling the d/a. That is why they do not put them on their box's.
So is this the magic of summing box's like the fulcrum is you can push them harder?---I just dont understand where the summing of my drums are taking place? they all have to come out of two channels?
thanks,

[diamondjim]

I just finished setting up a Folcrom out of an RME FF800 and got great results. If you have more than 8 tracks you would need to buss some of them, e.g. the various drum tracks, to a single buss and send that out to one channel.

When you buss the drums you are summing the drums to a single audio stream inside the DAW. That stream plus the remaining outs go to the Folcrom are then summed passively to 2-channel mix ("2-BUSS").

Use as many other channels for separate tracks as you can, up to 8 (or 16 if you can spare the outs). Buss (group) only when you run out of OUTPUTS , that means that most of the summing takes place in the analog domain in the Folcrom.

Of course with the Folcrom you need a preamp to make up the gain. I use an ADL 600 and it sounds awesome. Then you can apply any additional outboard processing (e.g. eq, compression or limiting) before sending it back into the DAW. I use the RME for this again, because I don't have a separate A-D. Sounds fine.

Because I use all 8 analog outs, I send my monitor mix to a Central Stations via the SPDIF out on the RME into the SPIDIF input on the CS.

Hope this helps..

diamondjim
Barn Jazz Home

[ulysses]

There seems to be some consensus that certain tracks "need" their own channel more than others do. Bass instruments and leads, primarily. So you might try putting the kick on its own single channel (press both buttons on that Folcrom channel so it's panned Center); put the bass on its own channel as well, maybe the lead vocal, something like that. Tom mikes can probably be bussed together to a single stereo pair. I would tend to bus most effects together as well, unless you have a good reason not to (like if they're outboard effects and you don't want to bring them back into the DAW before summing). If they're already in the box, I might bus the effects along with whatever instrument(s) they relate to - put the drum reverb in with the drum tracks, for example.
There are as many ways to set up a mix as there are songs to be mixed and people to mix them. Experiment and see what works for you. It's music after all, so you can't get around the subjectivity.

[Jim@SSL]

I'd send the 6 key elements of the mix out of individual mono outs (Kick, snare, bass, Vox, and W.H.Y.) with the rest of the mix summed to a stereo pair.

Whether you use a bus or a master fader in your DAW you're still going through it's mix engine - which is what you're trying to avoid by using a summing unit.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

I'd send the 6 key elements of the mix out of individual mono outs (Kick, snare, bass, Vox, and W.H.Y.) with the rest of the mix summed to a stereo pair.

Whether you use a bus or a master fader in your DAW you're still going through it's mix engine - which is what you're trying to avoid by using a summing unit.

I disagree, using direct outs (to the converter) is bypassing the mixer (for those key elements.).

[Jules]

IMHO I don't feel sending signal out of direct out to the converter IS the same thing as routing them though the internal mixer.

[kingsley]

I disagree, using direct outs (to the converter) is bypassing the mixer (for those key elements.). "Jules"

That is the question im trying to figure out. I have been mixing with the fulcrum for two years now and it is so nice not to be limited by the computers/softwears buss outs. This part of the reason i started using the fulcrum along with it working so well with my outboard stuff.

My results have been good so far but i want to figure out what the softwear/hardwhear is doing with my audio. Something is summing my channel outs.

? How does everyone else set up their fulcrum? I know people combine their outs (backing vox, rhythm guit's etc.) Do you make buss for them all or assign them straight out to the selected outputs?

[Jim@SSL]

Jules - I'm with you on this. Perhaps I could have explained better.

[ulysses]

Originally Posted by Jules

IMHO I don't feel sending signal out of direct out to the converter IS the same thing as routing them though the internal mixer.

But if you're routing multiple tracks "directly" out to a single DAC, then they ARE being summed internally. I don't think that's an absolute no-no when using outboard summing, but it's good to know what's happening. Is it better to avoid any internal bus faders? I don't know. I do think a bit of submixing on your way to an outboard summing device can be benign, and is a practical necessity in many cases.