Yamaha n Series

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by marsnal

Hello--I'm looking for an upgrade to my Saffire Pro10, and the n12 has some very intriguing features. I have spent hours reading this thread and other reviews but still have a couple questions: It was stated earlier in this thread that the n12 has 114db converters, but the specs sheet I found (Yamaha) rates the A/D at 106db (which would be a downgrade from the 110db A/D on my Saffire). Also, preamp gain was said to 84db, but the specs sheet rates it at 60db. Perhaps I'm misreading these specs--any clarification would be appreciated.
Thanks, Dave

Concerning converters check out this thread
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...onverters.html

I don't remenmber talk about 114db, maybe that was the D/A?

Anyhow I use to get hung up on specs and I no longer do because there is more to it than just the dynamic range of the converters that affect sound quality.

I would think you could get good recordings out of the Saffire so the "upgrade" in my mind would be the features like you say.

[marsnal]

Originally Posted by Geosync

1st: Warmth with air (if you know what I mean) none of our digital mixers have had that character.

2nd: By the numbers

THD .003% (typical digital mixer .01%)
Mic Pre gain 84db ( typical mixer pre gain 50-60db)
Dynamic range 114db
Input noise level -128db

Thanks for the link, soundrage. I'll check it out.

[marsnal]

Been checking the specs of the units the n12 is being compared to--Rosetta, RME, Lucid, etc--and these all have significantly higher A/D numbers than the n12. Are the A/D headroom specs really that unimportant to the sound of the converters?

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by wakestyle

one thing not totally apparent is there is only really one aux output

Yes that's true but you can use the ST outs as well (Of course it is post fader)

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by marsnal

Been checking the specs of the units the n12 is being compared to--Rosetta, RME, Lucid, etc--and these all have significantly higher A/D numbers than the n12. Are the A/D headroom specs really that unimportant to the sound of the converters?

Convertors are only part of the story. You should look at the head amps as well
Combine the head amp and A/D and the quality of the clock. All of the ones you mentioned are top of the line. Considering the price of an n12, it's an amazing value
for top drawer sound.

[nik nak]

Ive just upgraded my mac's OS to 10.5.7/Leopard and the desk is now 'failing to initialise' when my computer starts up, and so in turn wont play through or connect up without a restart. Im also using the latest firmware/installers (I updated my desks firmware the first time I ran it, back when I was on Tiger, but downloaded the latest drivers from the Yamaha site)

However, there is one glimmer of hope.. I had a play around with my configuration and Ive noticed it only does this when my firewire 800 external HD is plugged in.. does this now mean i cant use my external HD at all??

Anyone had any similar issues with firewire in this way?

Thanks

ps. on a side note - is anyone using one the latest Macs (which only have FW800 connecters) and FW400>FW800 converter cable - any issues here?? as Im wanting to upgrade my PPC G5 to an Apple MacIntel Pro as soon as Snow Leopard comes out.

Thanks in advance

[smoke]

N12 worked very good on the G5, not as great on this Intel 8 core.

I had a problem with 2 FW HDs (N12 not recognized at startup), took them off, reinstalled all the latest drivers/tools from Yamaha and have been pretty good since. However, it's not as "sturdy" as other interfaces I've used. I get choke ups now when i work in 48/32 and less than 512 samples. 50% of the time, I have to go into Yamaha control panel, just to toggle it so that the N12 initiates in Cubase. Also some glitchy (Cubase related) issues that I don't expect from a Mac Pro with these specs.

Other than that, it works and the features are very good. These days I don't expect companies to release perfect working products, so I guess this is as good as I can expect for the price. Remember nothing is free, so anything with a good price point has drawbacks. Don't let anyone fool you to believe otherwise.

[johnnyz]

I use a n-12 with a macpro and it has been very stable,it sits right next to my yamaha 01v96 which is also rock solid ,kudos to yamaha jz

[nik nak]

much thanks for the info peeps - sounds like the Mac Pro's are a good way to go then!!

e, Ive guess Ill just got to wait til september/snow leopard release til I can plug in my external and leave it there at start up

[SoulSpace]

Originally Posted by johnnyz

I use a n-12 with a macpro and it has been very stable,it sits right next to my yamaha 01v96 which is also rock solid ,kudos to yamaha jz

Hey Johnnyz, how would you rate the preamps and conversion of the n12 vs. the O1v96. Thanks!

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by johnnyz

I use a n-12 with a macpro and it has been very stable,it sits right next to my yamaha 01v96 which is also rock solid ,kudos to yamaha jz

Are you using CuBase with your MacPro, or Logic or ??

[Audio Hombre]

i haven't read through the whole, novel length thread (who has?) but i just finished recommending this to a client with an older e-mac on OS 10.5.6 and I'm calling him tonight and telling him to hold off! while blown away with the specs and bang for the $ of this thing, all this negative feedback on the drivers makes it impossible to recommend at this point. shame too because this guy is a noobie and the simple layout of the board would have been perfect. if yamaha could only match rme's bullt proof drivers..

[kire]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

i haven't read through the whole, novel length thread (who has?) but i just finished recommending this to a client with an older e-mac on OS 10.5.6 and I'm calling him tonight and telling him to hold off! while blown away with the specs and bang for the $ of this thing, all this negative feedback on the drivers makes it impossible to recommend at this point. shame too because this guy is a noobie and the simple layout of the board would have been perfect. if yamaha could only match rme's bullt proof drivers..

He should not have to worry, especially not on a Mac.
I'm running my N12 both with a Mac and with a laptop (XP) with very good results.
The only problems I've had was related to finding a firewire PC Card interface for my PC with the correct chipset.
J've never had any problems with the Mac.

I think this reply from Geosync describes the situation pretty good:

Originally Posted by Geosync

Well those threads start off with driver problems but the majority were:

1: not following an over-strict procedure, assuming that reading the installation guide was not necessary
2: buying one of those cheap laptop that Microsoft is advertising all over television.
"STEP AWAY FROM THE CHEAP LAPTOP" the firewire just doesn't work.
3: trying to use Vista BEFORE we were ready..

take away those three things and there are VERY FEW problems.

[nik nak]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

i haven't read through the whole, novel length thread (who has?) but i just finished recommending this to a client with an older e-mac on OS 10.5.6 and I'm calling him tonight and telling him to hold off! while blown away with the specs and bang for the $ of this thing, all this negative feedback on the drivers makes it impossible to recommend at this point. shame too because this guy is a noobie and the simple layout of the board would have been perfect. if yamaha could only match rme's bullt proof drivers..

only worry of hes got alongside his N8/12 another Firewire (400 or 800) peripheral attached to the Mac ie: external HD (like my FW800, which is currently left unconnected :()

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by nik nak

only worry of hes got alongside his N8/12 another Firewire (400 or 800) peripheral attached to the Mac ie: external HD (like my FW800, which is currently left unconnected :()

thanks. unfortunately, he does have a fw ext hd.this guy will be writing / reading maybe 12-16 tracks,tops, so he probably could get by with an ext usb 2.0 drive.

[smoke]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

thanks. unfortunately, he does have a fw ext hd.this guy will be writing / reading maybe 12-16 tracks,tops, so he probably could get by with an ext usb 2.0 drive.

My LaCie 300 GB USB 2 has been working smoothly for about 3-4 years. No problems with the N12.

[vasikgreif]

I have both n12 and external 1TB WD HDD via Firewire , have no single problem, I'm on WinXP...

[johnnyz]

Originally Posted by SoulSpace

Hey Johnnyz, how would you rate the preamps and conversion of the n12 vs. the O1v96. Thanks!

They are both very good,lately i been using my 01v to get a good drum mix ,i will play around with differant mixes on the 01v and then i send the mix to the n-12 via the omni outs of the 01v.jz

[ally]

Originally Posted by blackshoe

Is anyone having problems with Cubase 4 + n12 + Vista 64???

Just installed Vista64 + new driver, so I do not know if it is the new driver playing up or it is vista.

• One in 5 times I get no audio output from Cubase (fine from other programs like WMP) and the DAW remote controls don't do anything (lights work though).
• If I press play by mouse in Cubase the lights display on the n12 correctly but if I press stop or play etc on n12 nothing happens.
• Once it happens I have to reset computer to make it go back to normal.
• If I change the audio device in Cubase to ASIO direct X, the audio is fine, but switch back to Yamaha SB driver and problem still exists.
• Also... I keep getting audio drop-outs when watching videos in WMP & Jet Audio.

Anyone getting similar & solved or suggestions???

Vista 64 :: Q6600 :: 8gb Ram :: n12 :: Axiom 49 :: Nvidia 7800gt

I experienced the same problem as mentionned above......any clues on this issue ?

Thanks

[Sherman90]

After much research and staring blankly at my online banking statements, I've decided to buy an n12. It'll be my first DAW and, in fact, my first piece of recording hardware.

I'm running a Unibody MBP, the 2.4ghz with 2gb of ram, etc.

Just before I take the plunge, I'd like to offer this general statement of my understanding and get current owners' feedback: people having the most difficulty with the n12 are Vista users; Mac users have generally had very stable, reliable, favorable results.

Thanks a million for all your help, geosync, and to everyone else for their input and shared experiences.

[milkshale]

Can somebody please help me, this is a n00b mistake i'm sure of it, but i've never figured it out.

Can I assign faders on the N-12 unit to individual tracks on Cubase (Cubase 4 in particular). I know there is no physical automation, but surely I should be able to control the levels?

If this is possible could someone please let me know, i'd be eternally grateful.

[terence]

When I switch from Hardware Mix to ST Mix and back to HW Mix my n12 input routings for each track revert to a default setting, i.e track 1 > n12-1, track 2 > n12-2 etc in Cubase 4Ai. This has never presented as an issue before as I never changed the template defaults, but now I am grouping some tracks etc.

Thanks for any help!

Terence

[AndyRoid]

Originally Posted by gurian1

Has anyone else found that with the new drivers the transport controls on the N will no longer work with other DAWS? I am so sad, I have used it with REAPER and Cakewalk for over a year with no issues at all. Any ideas?

Rob

Hi people,

Does anyone know if this is indeed the case? I have the latest firmware/drivers installed & working fine with Cubase AI4 but have not been able to get the N8 to work with Reaper. Any ideas.

Cheers!

AR

[smoke]

Originally Posted by milkshale

Can somebody please help me, this is a n00b mistake i'm sure of it, but i've never figured it out.

Can I assign faders on the N-12 unit to individual tracks on Cubase (Cubase 4 in particular). I know there is no physical automation, but surely I should be able to control the levels?

If this is possible could someone please let me know, i'd be eternally grateful.

Look at your direct outs in Cubase. If set up properly, you should see the N12 connections.

With the N12 set to HW MIX, you can assign Cubase channels to N12 channels. To get the sound back in, you also need to set up an input, such as REC BUSS.

The N12 does not 'take over' the Cubase mixer. You have the same control over the Cubase mixer as usual. The level set on the N12 fader is the level recorded back into Cubase... not the level of the actual signal in Cubase. That's my understanding, anyway.

[smoke]

Originally Posted by terence

When I switch from Hardware Mix to ST Mix and back to HW Mix my n12 input routings for each track revert to a default setting, i.e track 1 > n12-1, track 2 > n12-2 etc in Cubase 4Ai. This has never presented as an issue before as I never changed the template defaults, but now I am grouping some tracks etc.

Thanks for any help!

Terence

You cannot switch from HW mix to ST mix inside a project, unless the project was created following the N12 default template. I presume Cubase cannot 'recall' a set of in/outs unless it's loading a preset.

You have to have the correct HW or ST mix set before the project is loaded. Nowadays I set up projects in channel order so it matches pretty good between modes.

[Audio Hombre]

speaking of faders. for tracking can i assign my inputs as pre-fader? i sometimes like to ride a vocal with the fader going in.

[vasikgreif]

Hi everybody, I recorded yesterday for the first time with 3 piece band and n12, love the sound, but would like to ask you, if it's possible to make somehow more headphone auxes for the musicians... We recorded one take and than we recorded other instruments to it, and I was able to make only one headphone mix from Cubase via one AUX on the n12, which doesn't work well, because the drummer needs more bass and I need less to feel comfortable etc... Any clue for this? Thanks!

[coricidin12]

Does anyone know why many online retailers are no longer selling the N12? (samedaymusic, zzsounds, etc.) Is Yamaha discontinuing the product?

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by coricidin12

Does anyone know why many online retailers are no longer selling the N12? (samedaymusic, zzsounds, etc.) Is Yamaha discontinuing the product?

Been going on for some time. Don't know what's up with that.

[animix]

Originally Posted by soundrage

Been going on for some time. Don't know what's up with that.

It's not a practical product for anything but a smaller project studio. Like the 816, it is loaded with compromises that limit it's overal usefulness.

4 x ADAT ports, WC I/O and the ability to interface them freely with Cubase without losing the functionality of other features would have made a world of difference on this piece. The reason it's not selling like hotcakes is that it has more limitations than advantages in a real world commercial studio. It does look like a very cool piece of gear for those whose needs are limited and it looks like it would be a very cool utility piece to have around.

I always watch the promo videos (and take them seriously) when I see a product like this hit the market.
YouTube - YAMAHA_n12_n8_01_Introduction
There is a reason the promo shows a dub session instead of a tracking session with 10 mics on a drum kit, a scratch vocal, keyboards, bass and a couple of guitar amps DI'ed and mic'ed..........it ain't gonna' be able to accommodate this and the more money you throw at it by trying to make a DM1000/2000/O2R out of it by trying to interface them together, try to add an 816 and daisy chain AD/DA's off the ADAT port of the 816, etc.......the more PO'ed and frustrated you're going to become.

..........cool mixer/interface for small/dub sessions though.