Yamaha n Series

[smoke]

Anyone remember around what page in this thread where someone described the ITB 2 buss setup thru the N12? Where you could monitor the mix with and without 2 buss VST fx? Search doesn't ever seem to work on this forum.

[smoke]

Found it..

That was you Soundrage... you da man!

Page 60 #1777

search terms: [compressor, master, mix, N12]

[HAHA]

Originally Posted by soundrage

Why not just get another n12?

Well - like I said, the N12 is not rackable and I can't carry around another oversize, custom built rack case. This is not your typical 18-truck, Rolling Stones, world-wide, super, mega operation with 100 people carrying and installing the hardware. I'm trying to achieve the highest possible fidelity with a portable system. This means installing mixer, amps and stuff, pre-wired in one rack case. Sometimes, I will use a small sub-mixer on stage to adjust monitors. Luckily, I'm not very tight on budget for all this. Convenience, portability and fidelity is the priority.

If I would go with dual N12, I still have the same question as for the N12 / MR816 combo.

Would N12-B route output digitally over FireWire to N12-A (without a computer in the loop) so that I can output everything from the ST-out of N12-A ?
If I have to go with an analog link, I may as well pick a more compact micpre/mixer than an extra N12...

[kire]

Originally Posted by HAHA

Would N12-B route output digitally over FireWire to N12-A (without a computer in the loop) so that I can output everything from the ST-out of N12-A ?
If I have to go with an analog link, I may as well pick a more compact micpre/mixer than an extra N12...

You could route digitally with the mlan driver (but I think you need a computer) but not with the new Yamaha Steinberg driver.
The mlan driver is eventually going away however.
Also, the mlan driver will only work if you have not updated the firmware in your N12.

i think posts 2648 2650 2655 2659 answers this
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4005392-post2648.html
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4005757-post2650.html
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4008285-post2655.html
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4008889-post2659.html

[HAHA]

Originally Posted by kire

You could route digitally with the mlan driver (but I think you need a computer) but not with the new Yamaha Steinberg driver.
The mlan driver is eventually going away however.
Also, the mlan driver will only work if you have not updated the firmware in your N12.

i think posts 2648 2650 2655 2659 answers this
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4005392-post2648.html
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4005757-post2650.html
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4008285-post2655.html
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4008889-post2659.html

Yeah - I have read those posts.
Everything seems to involve a computer somehow.
I'm pretty sure sure something could be done without routing control from a computer but I can't find any info on how this works. Maybe I'll have to go research the MR816 better. This device seems to posess more built in intelligence than N12 som maybe the control can be initiated from there...

[coricidin12]

Hi all,

I have read this entire thread as research and am trying to decide between the N12 and the MR816CSX. I am leaning toward the N12 but I have a couple questions that I have not seen specifically addressed and I'm hoping some of you might be able to answer them.

First of all, I will be running Cubase 5 (64-bit version) in Vista 64, and perhaps eventually Windows 7. Everything will be 64 bit, OS, Cubase, Plugins, etc. Also I will be running more than 4GB of ram, probably 16GB or 32GB. So my first question:

1.) I know that the MR816CSX currently can't handle more than 4GB ram without adding a 20ms latency buffer, and there is no news from Steinberg on when this will be fixed. Does anyone know if the N12 has this same problem? Can the N12 effectively use more than 4GB ram at low latency or does it too require a 20ms buffer? If so, is there any word from Yamaha on when that will be fixed for the N12?

On a seperate note,

2.) Does anyone have any thoughts on the surround sound (5.1) functionality of these two units and if either is better? I am looking to use surround sound both for mixing/producing purposes, and also for WDM movie watching purposes. I remember reading that the MR816 can do surround for WDM audio with windows media player or whatever, can the N12 do this as well? Any other relevant surround related thoughts on these two units?

Thanks a lot.

[smoke]

1. make sure nothing in your mix is going to the DAW channel in the N12 (this is output N12 L/R).
2. insert a new stereo track in cubase and set it's input as N12 stereo (N12-ST) and set its output to the DAW channel (N12-L/R).
3. Switch off the switch by the DAW volume pot which sends the signal to the stereo buss.
4. insert a compressor/limiter/eq or whatever on the stereo channel you created and then switch on the live monitor button.
5. on the N12 control room monitor section, switch to the DAW monitor switch - now you can hear the mix with the vst effects you inserted on the stero track you made. switch back to the stereo monitor input to hear it without.

This works well, but what I really want to do is utilize the converters. The above method gives the ability to use the N12 EQ and Comp, but bypasses the converter. Using the N12 just for it's EQ isn't any different than using another VST EQ or Comp. (except they do work well!)

I'm trying to send my midi/VST tracks to the N12 ST out, and into the 11/12. I have a cable from the rear ST outs directly into the 11/12 ins. DAW to ST is on. A.In is selected on the N12 11/12 strip. The 11/12 channel is lit. I want to pass the signal via the 11/12 N12 converter, and bring that back in to the REC Buss.

So I have created another audio channel with REC Buss as the input. Enable Monitoring shows me that the signal comes thru. Now how do I just monitor that REC Buss... since that is the signal post converter, that is the signal I want to monitor.

Normally I have been working with the unaffected signal, but at this point, I need to monitor the affected signal. (The signal coming from the REC Buss that has passed thru the converters) If I send audio channel "REC Buss" to the ST Buss, obviously that will loop, since the ST Buss is already receiving the signal to pass to 11/12.

...aux phones is a possibility, but I don't want to really have to work this way.

[smoke]

Alright, I'm back.

So this is what I ended up with:

-N12 on ST Mix.
-VST channels all out to 9/10 ... or of course split your channels up, however this is not flexible for multiple projects (Input select DAW btw)
-9/10 routed to ST Buss.
-DAW to ST is off.

-RCA or jack from ST out to 11/12 in (Input select A.In)
-Cubase audio channel with 11/12 as input.
-Monitor enable 11/12 channel and set output to N12 Monitor.

Done. Mix completely ITB with all channels passing thru 11/12 N12 converters, add some gain for color if desired, route the post gain into Cubase 11/12 audio channel with any desired effects (UAD). Toggle DAW and ST on C-R on N12 to hear pre-post 2 buss FX!

[dosilegecko]

Hey, has anyone used the N12 with Ableton live? What features do not work on other DAWs besides Cubase? I really want to stick with Ableton, will the transport functions still work or am I basically getting a huge mixer with only preamp capability?

Also, are the compressors "recorded", or are they simply for monitoring?

I just got a MOTU 896mk3, and am not too happy with the sounds, and the thing just feels cheapish. Oh well. I wanna know if I'll be pleased with the N12.

[blizz]

i'm thinking of using n8 for my band's place. This is the setup that i am thinking of getting. We are using electric drums so we only need 7 inputs. 1 n8 mixer, 2 yamaha club s112v and 1 yamaha p3500s power amp for the 2 speakers. Might be adding an active sub if we find the bass really lacking. A few questions. 1) will this setup be enough for us to host small shows like 50 pax, nice sounding rehearsals and recording? 2) will that poweramp give enough power for the speakers? 3) will it be possible for us to add in monitors later on? I noticed n8 only have 4 outputs but this is the best setup i could think of that will fit our budget. Other brands are reallx hard to find and is expensive in my country.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Over 124,000 posts in this thread. Mostly driver related issues getting the Yamaha N8/N12 recognized and working. I am baffled. Clearly its a great product at a great price point with great sound. But man ....is it me, or is this the only thread on GS with over 124,000 posts, mostly driver/issue related? Just asking.

Well those threads start off with driver problems but the majority were:

1: not following an over-strict procedure, assuming that reading the installation guide was not necessary
2: buying one of those cheap laptop that Microsoft is advertising all over television.
"STEP AWAY FROM THE CHEAP LAPTOP" the firewire just doesn't work.
3: trying to use Vista BEFORE we were ready..

take away those three things and there are VERY FEW problems.

That said.... We are here for those people listed above.....
That's what makes this thread special .

Sorry my new job/jobs leaves me little or no hang time here.

I still watch .....

[animix]

Sooo.....due to a strange fluke of fortune, I'm going to end up with two identical i7 3.66 DAWs here pretty soon.....this get's me wondering............would it be possible to somehow systemlink a pair of N12's (one running on each computer) and use one/both of the N12's (or a CC121 I've got here) as the stop/start/rewind controller? I've got an extra copy of Cubase 4 here as well.

The CC121 works nicely in tandem with my Houston controller so I know that there is some simultaneous multicontroller capability in C5. The question would be how to digitally interconnect a pair of N12's so that they locked up. Looks like the only possible way to do this would be via a FW link between the two units.....unless it could be done through the midi ports on the back of the unit.

Yeah.....I know.........I've been like this for years.

[andrew caramia]

[QUOTE=muso36;4230101]

Originally Posted by andrew caramia

update 3-
i suspected my mobo might be faulty. to eliminate all possibilities, i replaced it with a gigabyte ep45-ud3... with firewire ti 400 chip onboard. also replaced the hdrive to be sure, and xp pro reformat. power supply also replaced. all the new drivers and updates were completed successfully.
first the good news- pops and clicks are gone.
the bad- still the occasional dropout! sample rates and buffer sizes were played with. general windows stuff like playing back cds and browsing the same.
all i can do now is wait for the belkin ti fw card to arrive... if it made a difference i'd be pretty surprised, as the onboard fw shouldnt be much different?

any ideas guys?

Hi Andrew, I can only sympathize with what you are going through at the moment - its almost the same as the situation I was in. Having researched purchasing a motherboard (Gigabyte ga-ep43-ds3) with the correct fw chipset it seems illogical that a pci firewire card with the same chipset should function perfectly when the onboard firewire was giving so many audio dropouts, I can only hope that the new fw card works for you as it did for me. Dont give up hope just yet! Regards, Bob

update 4-
ok, i found a belkin pci card locally with ti TSB43AB23 chipset. the other belkin card and a siig are still on their way.
so far the dropouts are still there, but less frequent. again, another reformat and updates etc were installed to eliminate any other factors.
rang yamaha support and no one can give an answer, and have been put on hold for hours.
at this point i'm ready to go to yamaha myself and and tell them where to shove it.

[AndyRoid]

Originally Posted by AndyRoid

Hi people, I'm in a bit of a confused state . I have an N8 which I want to set up for the first time with drivers/firmware etc on XP. I 'm confused as to what I should install & in what order - if anyone can give me a simple guide on this I'd be most grateful - I'm confused as to whether I need to install the stuff on disc that came with the N8 & then update the firmware/drivers etc off the website or what - sorry - new to all this stuff. Please help if you can. Many thanks in advance. AR

So - I took the plunge & installed everything myself - starting with the discs that came with the N8, then updating from the Yamaha/Steinberg sites until, finally, the latest drivers/firmware were installed. At each stage I tested the set up using the Demo project that comes with Cubase AI 4. I noticed some "popping" on playback up until the most recent update, since when all has been as smooth as smooth can be. At each stage of the process (bar the now fixed "popping") all has worked as expected; Cubase light lights up each time - no issues when I switch the N8 on/off - it all works!! Incidentally, this is using a 5 yr old Fujitsu-Siemens laptop with a Max Value USB 2.0 / Firewire 400 Cardbus (which cost me 15 quid from Amazon).

I post this to counterbalance some of the posts on here highlighting people's difiiculties - not that I'm dismissing any of their problems, but just to show that this CAN work as it should!!

Now, to make some music!!!

Cheers folks.

AR

[Karlo B.]

Hi everybody!
I am new on this forum, and I hope that someone can help me. The thing is- I own Yamaha n12 and new HP 6830s FU535ES laptop witouth FW , but I have Asonic FW Exspresscard adapter. My laptop is running on XP SP2 and, I can not get any signal from DAW to mixer. In n-driver setup menu- 1394 Adapter Card ID says: unknown. There is no transmision of any kind between mixer and laptop. Some people suggested me to buy new laptop, but it seems radical solution at this time. Does anyone have better idea of what my possibilities are?
I am guessing the problem is in Exspresscard FW adapter compatibility with n12.
So if anyone knows what model exspress Fw card shurelly works with n12 , I would be gratefull. ( I wouldn t want to buy like 5 or 6 cards just to discover none is compatibile).
Secondly, should I install any of the updates from Yamaha s site- I only installed Cubase AI4 and tools for n- which came with mixer.
Thanks in advance!

[HAHA]

Originally Posted by blizz

i'm thinking of using n8 for my band's place. This is the setup that i am thinking of getting. We are using electric drums so we only need 7 inputs. 1 n8 mixer, 2 yamaha club s112v and 1 yamaha p3500s power amp for the 2 speakers. Might be adding an active sub if we find the bass really lacking. A few questions. 1) will this setup be enough for us to host small shows like 50 pax, nice sounding rehearsals and recording? 2) will that poweramp give enough power for the speakers? 3) will it be possible for us to add in monitors later on? I noticed n8 only have 4 outputs but this is the best setup i could think of that will fit our budget. Other brands are reallx hard to find and is expensive in my country.

The N8 or N12 will give you amazing live sound. I speak from experience...
The difference compared to many mixers is not small. Your choice of amps and speakers has little to do with the N8. You should do fine with stereo out for FOH and aux for monitors.

[Syncamorea]

I wish Yamaha would make an n20. I love the n12 and have considered daisy chaining an n8 to it but it doesn't seem straightforward.

[HAHA]

Originally Posted by MC3DPCS

I wish Yamaha would make an n20. I love the n12 and have considered daisy chaining an n8 to it but it doesn't seem straightforward.

Here is my wishlist...

The n12 should be built in standard rack-able size. This should be possible by just shaving off dead space that is not really used for anything. This would make n12 much easier to use as a portable unit for live use among other things.

Rather than an n20 or something larger, I would prefer a 1U or 2U channelstrip expansion unit that could link digitally through Firewire to n12. The key feature would be to get physical knobs for faders etc. and not having to use a computer to make it work (once setup). This would look a lot like the Steinberg MR816. Maybe this could be done already with MR816 but I have failed to get any information on this.

Digital I/O is mysteriously left out on n12. This is almost a criminal oversight. This could also be solved by using MR816 IF there was a way to connect to it through firewire without putting a computer in the loop.

Alternatively, perhaps they could build a simple 1U control panel with physical channelstrip controls for MR816, which would take the role of a computer. This would be chained with Firewire to both n12 and MR816.

So - there you are...

With the help of a hacksaw and some improved firmware, life would be perfect.

[mcmacguy]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I guess now is as good a time as any.....
I will still be here with my fellow G Slutz as a user, but not in an official capacity.
I have a new position with Yamaha in the Electronic Keyboards department as it's new Product Manager. So much of my time will be getting up to speed on the many new products that will be my responsibility. (PSR's, Arranger Workstations, Digital Pianos, Clavinovas)

Anyway, don't panic I will still keep a loving eye here just not as often and I'll need you guys to answer as much as you can. I'll be here to correct any mistakes etc.

Haven't been on so I missed this post - Good luck in the new gig, Geo!

Mick

[mcmacguy]

[QUOTE=blackshoe;3998534]Is anyone having problems with Cubase 4 + n12 + Vista 64???

Yes - apparently everybody who tries that ill-fated combination!

[d3man]

Yes, all the best on the new job, Geo. Just to say hello from 1st n12 owner in Croatia (summer 2007). Everything works fine for a months here, with new drivers and Cubase 5.0.1.

[dosilegecko]

Yet another vista-64 post.... sigh

Okay So i carefully followed the instructions in the guide, and got all the vista 64/vista drivers from the site. I installed everything as administrator etc etc. The drivers on the CD did not allow me install them due to my OS.

When I turn on the Yamaha N12, windows makes its annoying "budoop" sound, but the Yamaha Steinberg FW driver does not recognize that its connected. I also noticed when I start up Cubase AI4 and do "new project", I do not see the templates for the N12. Is there something else I need to download and install?

I realize vista-64 sucks in the most profound of ways, but switching OS's is not an option.

Is there any way to make this thing work with my setup?
Thanks in advance, I really can't wait to enjoy these preamps and compressors and tactile mixing, but for now:

[vasikgreif]

Hi everybordy, I've just managed to make my n12 work with my PC. My problem is, that I bought the n12 as secondhand via US eBay (I'm from Czech republic), it works flawlesly, but it came without the Cubase AI4 DVD. Do you think it would be possible to get it somewhere? Who should I contact? Thanks

[TheVerk]

For those still wondering: Yep, it really works.

I followed the next steps (using the AI driver)
1 - upgrade FW -> 1.03
2 - upgrade IEEE1394 -> 1.07
3 - removed AI/mlan drivers/tools for n*
* tools for n probably not nessesary, I just removed all Yamaha software.
4 - Installed MR FW drivers (which support the N12) the MR tools utility identified the N12 correctly.
5 - Tested my N12: Ok
6 - Bought the MR816 CSX
7 - Connected it (N12 FW2 -> MR816 FW1), power on
8 - Installed again the MR drivers and tools for MR (somehow it
seems without the MR816 connected not everything is installed properly)
(I'm not sure if this was nessesary, the MR816 is more complex than the N12, maybe I just didn't understand it was working OK?)
10 - re-installed 'tools for n'. (unnessesary too, see 3)

And this on a windows vista home edition pc! (32 bit)
Cubase studio 4.5.2

And it works great: 16 x mic inputs total, 2 x stereo in
During mixing set the recorded tracks output -> stereo out n12 (LR)
(like normal itb mixing) but now you can use in the 'MR recorded' channels the 'morphing comp. and eq' as an insert! Works great! And you can
use the REV X reverb as an VST (so usable from all tracks: create an effect track, assign the REV X to it and make a 'send' from all tracks.

ps. Thanks George for all the work you put into this thread, succes with your new job!

[JoeyRec]

Sorry pluging my gear I need to sell this..

Read my signature.. brand new MC Control in box.

[HAHA]

Originally Posted by TheVerk

For those still wondering: Yep, it really works.

I followed the next steps (using the AI driver)
1 - upgrade FW -> 1.03
2 - upgrade IEEE1394 -> 1.07
3 - removed AI/mlan drivers/tools for n*
* tools for n probably not nessesary, I just removed all Yamaha software.
4 - Installed MR FW drivers (which support the N12) the MR tools utility identified the N12 correctly.
5 - Tested my N12: Ok
6 - Bought the MR816 CSX
7 - Connected it (N12 FW2 -> MR816 FW1), power on
8 - Installed again the MR drivers and tools for MR (somehow it
seems without the MR816 connected not everything is installed properly)
(I'm not sure if this was nessesary, the MR816 is more complex than the N12, maybe I just didn't understand it was working OK?)
10 - re-installed 'tools for n'. (unnessesary too, see 3)

And this on a windows vista home edition pc! (32 bit)
Cubase studio 4.5.2

And it works great: 16 x mic inputs total, 2 x stereo in
During mixing set the recorded tracks output -> stereo out n12 (LR)
(like normal itb mixing) but now you can use in the 'MR recorded' channels the 'morphing comp. and eq' as an insert! Works great! And you can
use the REV X reverb as an VST (so usable from all tracks: create an effect track, assign the REV X to it and make a 'send' from all tracks.

ps. Thanks George for all the work you put into this thread, succes with your new job!

Great!

Could you test what happens if you don't have the computer running?
Will n12/MR816 remember the routing so you get the MR816 mic inputs into n12 digitally and out over n12 analog ST OUT ? (physical monitors)

or - perhaps the other way around if MR816 is smarter than n12 (n12 mic inputs digitally to MR816 and out through some of the MR816 analog outs).

I'm having a live situation in mind where I don't want to rely on a computer real time...

[dosilegecko]

Anyone get this thing to work in windows vitsa-64 with ASIO drivers?

Im trying to get this to work in Ableton Live, and I can't get any audio in from the N12 or out to the N12.

I set driver to ASIO, Yamaha Steinberg FW ASIO, input: 1-8 mono+stereo, output: 1-2 stereo.

Arm track -> nothing.

SO: install bundled cubase.
No audio in or out still.

Here is the kicker: It works fine on my macbook laptop with Live 8.02.
I would even be happy if I could record on my laptop, then transfer to the desktop for mixing and effects, but I can't even monitor the signal.

So, anyone get it to work in vista 64 with ASIO, or in ableton even?

[maim9]

Hello

Sorry for not gathering this info from the near three thousand posts in this thread, but I'm looking at the Yamaha n8 and need some quick reviews.

If I get this right, the n8 (and n12, of course) offers...
- mixing and monitoring capabilities
- built in DSP effects
- four preamps
- multichannel, DAW-integrated firewire audio interface with multitracking capabilities and built in converters.

So, what am I missing here? Apparently this is a lot of options at a relatively low price, and it seems to me that this must either be a very good deal, or it's too good to be true.

Skimming through the pages of this thread, it seems to be a lot of worries about driver compatibility and connection problems. Is this sorted out?

I don't have a fw-interface, btw, so i would have to purchase one. PCI is the best option, right? (PC. Not on a laptop). Anything else to be concerned about?

Thanks.

[marsnal]

Hello--I'm looking for an upgrade to my Saffire Pro10, and the n12 has some very intriguing features. I have spent hours reading this thread and other reviews but still have a couple questions: It was stated earlier in this thread that the n12 has 114db converters, but the specs sheet I found (Yamaha) rates the A/D at 106db (which would be a downgrade from the 110db A/D on my Saffire). Also, preamp gain was said to 84db, but the specs sheet rates it at 60db. Perhaps I'm misreading these specs--any clarification would be appreciated.
Thanks, Dave

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by maim9

Hello

Sorry for not gathering this info from the near three thousand posts in this thread, but I'm looking at the Yamaha n8 and need some quick reviews.

If I get this right, the n8 (and n12, of course) offers...
- mixing and monitoring capabilities
- built in DSP effects
- four preamps
- multichannel, DAW-integrated firewire audio interface with multitracking capabilities and built in converters.

So, what am I missing here? Apparently this is a lot of options at a relatively low price, and it seems to me that this must either be a very good deal, or it's too good to be true.

Skimming through the pages of this thread, it seems to be a lot of worries about driver compatibility and connection problems. Is this sorted out?

I don't have a fw-interface, btw, so i would have to purchase one. PCI is the best option, right? (PC. Not on a laptop). Anything else to be concerned about?

Thanks.

one thing not totally apparent is there is only really one aux output