Yamaha n Series

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by buzzjoe

I' ve read almost the whole thread. That's why I am very interested in the n12. In my experience the quality of pres, EQ and converters will make a differnce (sometimes subtle sometimes night and day). So If I am investing 1200 € in peace of gear I want to know how good it is - the more specific the better!

And that’s what makes these decisions difficult, especially if you can’t try it out and make all those comparisons. I can only say that I like the sound better than my Delta 1010 and the preamps and EQ are quite a step up over my Alesis Studio 24.

[Geosync]

Buzzjoe,

I believe people will be reluctant to comment on preamps and EQs online.
There have been many discussions about preamps or EQ with each person having
a different opinion.

We are very proud of the preamps and the vintage sound of the EQ.
It's very warm and has a "character" that is not what comes to mind when you say digital mixer.

You really owe it to yourself to give a good listen to the mixers you are interested in.
It's your money, it's your ears and it should express your soul.
What you can't see or hear is how it will help you make the music you want to make.
How inspired you are and how you stay focused during the critical creation phase.

I think the owners can tell you that the approach is different and the difference is a "GOOD" thing

[buzzjoe]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I believe people will be reluctant to comment on preamps and EQs online.
There have been many discussions about preamps or EQ with each person having a different opinion.

IMHO it can be very useful to discuss the sonic quality of gear (incl. preamps, EQ and mics) and I think this forum is a great place for that. Got some real good recommendatins here (e.g. to get me a DAV pre, or a Gefell M71s mic...).

Of course it's not only the recording gear that matters - the talent, the skills, the arrangemet, the instruments, the room, mic placement - all this things are more important than pre a vs. pre b - that's clear...

Shure, taste ond opinions vary but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't discuss sonic differences (of course it can be useful to here some additional sound samples...).

Originally Posted by Geosync

We are very proud of the preamps and the vintage sound of the EQ.
It's very warm and has a "character" that is not what comes to mind when you say digital mixer.

George, I respect that you are proud of your product. I think Yamaha usually makes quality gear (I like e.g. my HS80M monitors). Just curious about different experiences and opinions.

Oliver

[PhonoquO]

Question for George,

Could you tell me how the the pres and converters (and clock) of the G046 compare to those on the N8? To be honest both the N8 and G046 interest me at this point, but the more portable G046 would probably be the first one i get.

thanks for your time
Mark

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by PhonoquO

Question for George,

Could you tell me how the the pres and converters (and clock) of the G046 compare to those on the N8? To be honest both the N8 and G046 interest me at this point, but the more portable G046 would probably be the first one i get.

thanks for your time
Mark

There is absolutely no connection between the 2 products except the Yamaha name and support. That said, the GO46 is a very nice, solid built portable that holds it's own with other portable Firewire I/O boxes.

As far as the n series go, the preamps are in a class of all their own compared to any Yamaha equipment at any price. Discrete analog components with a custom designed condenser to get a unique, smooth, musical, analog sound from a digital mixer.

They are really apples and oranges. If all of your recording is live, you'll lose some of the pristine sound, so maybe the GO46 works for you.

Here in the US, the street price for the GO46 has been lowered to $199.00 almost low enough to consider both ;-).

Seriously, You must decide if it's sound or portability that is most important. There is a real trade-off.

[Microproducer]

As far as the n series go, the preamps are in a class of all their own compared to any Yamaha equipment at any price. Discrete analog components with a custom designed condenser to get a unique, smooth, musical, analog sound from a digital mixer.

Hello George,

So you're saying that these 'new' pre's are better, and would be preferred, than those installed in the 01V96 v2, correct?

I don't know a lot about mic pre's, having only been exposed to the Focusrite Platinum series, but I've used Digimax (96k w/pad/limiters) for years now and would like to know if the 'n' series are in the same league with this specific Presonus unit.

Also, I use the RME Hammerfall/Digiface, monitoring direct from the Digiface Line Out to powered HR824's - I don't use a dedicated D/A converter. If I decide to mix outside the box on this little monster, will the sound be comparable to what I'm hearing direct from RME's Digiface? Are the converters between these two units in the same league?

Please, anyone's comments would be appreciated.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Microproducer

Hello George,

So you're saying that these 'new' pre's are better, and would be preferred, than those installed in the 01V96 v2, correct?

I don't know a lot about mic pre's, having only been exposed to the Focusrite Platinum series, but I've used Digimax (96k w/pad/limiters) for years now and would like to know if the 'n' series are in the same league with this specific Presonus unit.

.

If I'm not mistaken before the N12 came along Yamaha's best pre's would be on the DM2000. I think the O1V96 has similar pre's but they aren't the same.

I haven't heard the Digimax but IMO the N12 pre's are nont only in the same class but probably better, I mean would you consider ONYX to be in the same class? I've heard the Onyx firewire card and 400F....I'll take the N12 any day, but that's just me. You can good music with any of this stuff.

[Geosync]

So you're saying that these 'new' pre's are better, and would be preferred, than those installed in the 01V96 v2, correct?


Yes, by a long way, and the 01V96V2 pres are good. I was using an 01V96V2 with a couple of high end front end pre amps. I was amazed at the improvement the n12 brought to my rig. We have a digimax connected to an 01V96V2 at work for live sound and it is very good, but that sound is nothing like the n12. The Digimax has 55db of gain which needs to run wide open with the Avant Electronics CR-14 ribbon mic we have. The 84db of the n12 runs at 55% of trim or so and is smooth as butter.
I wish I could explain the warm clarity and the airiness of the sound, that's not possible on a forum. all I ask you guys to do is try it out, then tell a friend. Pretty soon they'll be a lot of them around and we can start talking about tricks to make better music ;-)
It has a unique workflow that I think can actually help us make better, "more musical productions, rather than over compressing the mix. It's a different flow and the more I use it, the more I'm digging it.

I don't know a lot about mic pre's, having only been exposed to the Focusrite Platinum series, but I've used Digimax (96k w/pad/limiters) for years now and would like to know if the 'n' series are in the same league with this specific Presonus unit.

See above

If I decide to mix outside the box on this little monster, will the sound be comparable to what I'm hearing direct from RME's Digiface? Are the converters between these two units in the same league?

I just spoke to a new n12 user and he commented on how much better older mixes sound through the n12. He was using a Hammerfall. I don't know the rest of his setup but he has been in the recording industry for 30+ years and was a Neve rep at one time. I trust his opinion.

[homestudioguy]

Originally Posted by Geosync

As far as the n series go, the preamps are in a class of all their own compared to any Yamaha equipment at any price. Discrete analog components with a custom designed condenser to get a unique, smooth, musical, analog sound from a digital mixer.

Hey George, did you mean to say condensor or transformer or something else?
Thanks!!!!

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by homestudioguy

Hey George, did you mean to say condensor or transformer or something else?
Thanks!!!!

I think George might have meant to say Capacitors.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by soundrage

I think George might have meant to say Capacitors.

Thanks Rage, My mind is on vacation too

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Thanks Rage, My mind is on vacation too

LOL, I'm already there! Don't have to be back to the office until after New Years/

[drooghound]

Hi.
This is my first posting.
I'm probably one of the first people in Australia to buy the N12 (It's only just out here)
I was previously using the Yamaha AW4416, and it has been great, but I decided now was the time to jump into the way more versatile world of computer music.
I was THAT close to buying a Mackie Onyx when my shop man directed me toward the N12. I'm so glad he did. Although the AAW44 has served me well for 5 years with nary a hitch, the sonic difference between the two machines is staggering. The pre-amps are so gorgeous, I've relegated my Aphex into the stereo inputs, and once you get used to it, the workflow is pretty intuitive. (..and I happen to like the compressor set-up, especially for recording on the fly)
If you, like me, don't want to spend all day peering at a screen, and are more comfortable with a mixer set up, there is no better place to go.
Cheers Yamaha

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by drooghound

Hi.
This is my first posting.
I'm probably one of the first people in Australia to buy the N12 (It's only just out here)
I was previously using the Yamaha AW4416, and it has been great, but I decided now was the time to jump into the way more versatile world of computer music.
I was THAT close to buying a Mackie Onyx when my shop man directed me toward the N12. I'm so glad he did. Although the AAW44 has served me well for 5 years with nary a hitch, the sonic difference between the two machines is staggering. The pre-amps are so gorgeous, I've relegated my Aphex into the stereo inputs, and once you get used to it, the workflow is pretty intuitive. (..and I happen to like the compressor set-up, especially for recording on the fly)
If you, like me, don't want to spend all day peering at a screen, and are more comfortable with a mixer set up, there is no better place to go.
Cheers Yamaha

Welcome to the forum!

Always happy to see another N12 user.

[drooghound]

Thanks Soundrage.
I forgot to mention, for the chap who was asking about Athlons that my Carrilon is loaded with an Athlon dual-core and flies the whole thing as smooth as a babys bottom.

[PhonoquO]

thanks for the info george! I think i've been sold on the N8! now if only it was free!

mark

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by PhonoquO

thanks for the info george! I think i've been sold on the N8! now if only it was free!

mark

Just buy it! You won't regret it.

[PhonoquO]

yeah i will. it seems as though it offers the best standalone solution!

[Lusitano]

Originally Posted by Geosync

There is a great video that we just finished for it. and it will be online very soon.

Could we have it for Christmas?

Thanks Santa George.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Lusitano

Could we have it for Christmas?

Thanks Santa George.

.Mac - iDisk

Here is a small version. click on the down arrow beside the file size.

Merry Christmas

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Geosync

.Mac - iDisk

Here is a small version. click on the down arrow beside the file size.

Merry Christmas

Nice little gift George!

[Purpletao]

Hello there, I am new in the forum and actually bought the n12 a few days ago after all the good info here. So you certainly did a good job there

This summer I bought a small surround monitoring system (Bluesky mediadesk 5.1) for some sound design work for film and multichannel live theatre. The problem was how to use it with my multipurpose desk/soundcard/DAW setup - not easy!

I have been using an Allen&Heath MixWizard in my project studio for many years, and a little Mackie 1202VLZ for live use. Since the Mackie Onyx FW came out I have been eager to buy one as soon as they sorted out their silly fw system with only a stereo return from my DAW (Cubase 4). And I also found it strange that they haven't managed to sort out their recorder routing so you could actually get those nice EQs onto the tracks (without hacking the desk).

Before I go on I have to say I used a Yamaha 01v many years ago, and it certainly felt very 'modern' with the motorized faders and built-in features, but I had 2 major complaints:
- The menu and interface on the 01v was very far from intuitive. And the desk felt 'plastic'. In fact, I hated it.
- It sounded flat, boring, dull, clean (as in 'sterile').

So when these ads started appearing for the n12 I first responded instinctively that Yamaha wasn't my thing. However when browsing the features it seemed almost too good to be true and I started some more serious research. At this moment I dare say there aren't ANY other options for what I was looking for: Firewire multitrack recording onto Cubase4, hardware mixer with good preamps, transport controls and switchable stereo/surround monitoring. So when the n12 at last became available for an almost unbelievably reasonable price I was quick to browse all the posts here and everything else I could find via Google, and then opened the box in my local store to see it. It was bigger than I expected, and everything felt rock solid and appealing so -baf! - 20 minutes later I was in a taxi with a big box in the trunk, on my way to the studio.

Since then I have been hooking up lots of my studio keyboards, stash and fx plus some mikes and the surround + stereo speakers and I am overwhelmed! The n12 is incredibly intuitive to work with, the Cubase connection works (almost) flawlessly, and the reverb and compressors sound great! I must admit I haven't really found my way around all the monitoring/recording/mixing combinations yet, but for "normal" use (recording/playback) I don't have any problems whatsoever. This is no doubt one of the best investmests I have made for many years

OK a few simple questions at the end of this rant:

1. 1 What is the simplest way of choosing whether or not to record e.g. the compression and EQ onto the Cubase tracks from a live input?
2. 2 Is the n12 compatible with the Focusrite Liquid Mix and Cubase 4? When I tried to hook up everything via FW (with the Liquid mix last in the chain) it crashed repeatedly - are there any known issues?

Thanks, and now back to the studio. (oops, no, shit it's christmas eve!!)

Best,
Purpletao, Oslo/Norway

[Geosync]

Congratulations on your n12 !!
Merry Christmas
and...

1 What is the simplest way of choosing whether or not to record e.g. the compression and EQ onto the Cubase tracks from a live input?

The n12 has a true analog approach so.. The compression and EQ are before the outputs.
If you want to record with Comp/EQ then just use them. If not monitor "WET" with VST Comp/EQ it will not print, then you can bring the track back after you record and then print it.


2 Is the n12 compatible with the Focusrite Liquid Mix and Cubase 4? When I tried to hook up everything via FW (with the Liquid mix last in the chain) it crashed repeatedly - are there any known issues?

If you use a Mac you may be able to aggregate both but you will need to use different ports and maybe even seperate 1394 controllers. Sorry we have not tested it here in the US.

[Microproducer]

George,

After doing some research and realizing the value of this package, I decided to purchase an i88x. If I decided to go with the n12 mixer, will I be able to use the i88x through the mixer w/o having to install the mLan package? Or, preferably, can I just lightpipe in to my RME digiface from the i88 for use of the inputs? What is the most practical configuration here.

thx. Happy Holidays

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Microproducer

George,

After doing some research and realizing the value of this package, I decided to purchase an i88x. If I decided to go with the n12 mixer, will I be able to use the i88x through the mixer w/o having to install the mLan package? Or, preferably, can I just lightpipe in to my RME digiface from the i88 for use of the inputs? What is the most practical configuration here.

thx. Happy Holidays

Merry Christmas

The i88x is an mLAN only device. You must use mLAN for it to work at all.

Are you PC or Mac?

[paulitto]

Hello,
I just got my n12 yesterday.
The concept of this mixer is something I was looking for a long time...

First the good things:

- I like the look & feel of this mixer
- nice preamps
- the sweetspot comps are actually really usefull!
- the overall sound quality is very good
- the reverb is pretty good too
- I like the whole concept
- I got it for 1190 euros, I think it's a great value!

And now the not so good things:

I am using a MAC G5 dual 1.8 / 2GB Ram / OSX 10.4.11 / Cubase 4.1
My audio interface was a RME Fireface 400
The system is nice and stable, never had any problems.

I was not able to get the n12 recognized on the FW bus of my G5.
The n12 was the only device. I did update the firmware, installed the
'tools for steinberg DAW', still got the message: unable to connect to n12....
The FW port of my G5 works fine, the RME FF400 worked fine with it, so did
any other FW device I connected to it. Just the n12 did not.

After a while I installed a Adaptec FW card i had around and the n12 got recognized.
I was able to record and playback with cubase. The 'Cubase ready' sign did not light
and the transport function on the n12 did not work at all. No matter what I tried.

But what really bugs me is the performance of the n12 driver.
Big projects that were running fine with the FF 400 did run poorly with the n12.
I had the buffer set to 1024, later 2048.

I opened the activity montor and there were CPU spikes all over the place....
Here are some screenshots:

First Cubase running thru the FF400 buffer set to 1024, no other
apps running.

Second Cubase running thru the n12 buffer set to 1024, no other
apps running.

So I realize the drivers of the n12 are very poorly written, or they rely on Apples
FW audio driver which is known to be no so good......

I hope this will be fixed in the next weeks, otherwise i will bring the unit back to
my dealer.........

Kind regards & happy holidays,
Paul

[Microproducer]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Merry Christmas

The i88x is an mLAN only device. You must use mLAN for it to work at all.

Are you PC or Mac?

XP Pro on PC. Why?

[homestudioguy]

George (and anyone else),
Although I'm sure this combination will work on either, will the combination of Cubase 4 and the Yamaha n12 be more comfortable on a 2.4 ghz iMAC or a 2.4 ghz quad core (Q6600 intel) PC? I am torn between the 2. The iMAc appears to be pretty much plug and play but the PC allows for upgrading. You shared in this thread that you yourself own a MAC which clearly says a lot.
Also involved is IK Multimedia Total Studio Bundle.
Thanks,
B

[Geosync]

Paul,

I believe you may be using the wrong driver for the n12.
It should be the AI Diver found HERE

Attached is a screen shot of my iMac 24" w/ 4 Gig of RAM as you can see with Cubase 4.1 running, it mostly sleeping.

Also make sure that you sidconnect the RME and try the n12 Stand alone. The aggregate driver will hit the CPU pretty hard on a G5 machine.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Microproducer

XP Pro on PC. Why?

PC does not aggregate and you will not be able to use your RME with the n12.
One ore the other. I would consider this.. Use the n12 for all of your analog input needs,
mix down and monitoring.. If you need to input digitally, the use the RME.
Best of both worlds. I spoke with 5 or 6 RME / n12 users. They are pretty much 100% n12 but thety are keeping the RME if they need to input digital things.