Yamaha n Series

[mcurrent]

1. When you download your updates for your new FW driver make sure when your downloading firmware 1394 you "shut down" your default driver....."dont uninstall it yet" After you load the new firmware then delete the old driver.

2. Download the n12 firmware.

3. Download Tools for V2.0

4. Delete old driver.


I made the mistake of removing my mLAN driver before the 1394 firmware was installed.

Shut down the n12 and reboot and the new driver should kick in for recognizing and installing new driver hardware.

Frustrating processs for some of us.....others seem to breeze right through without a glitch.....

Good Luck....

Mike

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by kire

I keep coming back to this; I still don't fully understand I could do 16-24 channels OTB mixes using 2 N12s without the graphic patchbay. How would the monitoring part work? Control Room? What would the summing look like? Everything OTB or?

I understand that I can do a lot of analog inputs using two N12s. But if I only wanted analog ins I might as well go for the MR816x (I already have an N12).

I'm asking because there's a deal on the N12 here, I can get it for almost the same price as for an MR816x (that I've waited for).

((So what would you guys do, get another N12 or buy an MR816x?))

OK, I get ya..

You want to do OTB 2 mix.

2 approaches

A: 2 Pass

Pass
1: 1-12 n12-1 ---> REC bus 1---> new track 1 13-24 n12-2 ---> REC bus 2---> new track 2
Pass
2: new track 1 -- n12 1&2 new track 2 -- n12 3&4 ---> REC Bus FINAL Mix..



B: 1-12 n12-1---> ST bus 13-24 n12-2 ---> ST out (RCA)----> 2TR IN (RCA) n12-1 Use 2TR to ST

[blubaru]

i just bought an N8. it should be here on the 18th. my question is, should i just download the new drivers and install everything that way or am i going to have to install with the included disks and then go back and install the new drivers. i know this has been beaten to death but everything i have read in this thread has been about replacing the old drivers not starting with a fresh new unit after the new drivers came out.

[nik nak]

Originally Posted by dylpickl

is the n12 definitely turned on and lit? my experience was that FW driver control panel's display fields will not activate [i.e., degray] until the n12 is actually powered up.

yes. i turn it on when i turn the computer on - or i can turn it off and turn it on (ive done it several times now, along with plugging in and unplugging the FW cable)

[dylpickl]

Originally Posted by nik nak

yes. i turn it on when i turn the computer on - or i can turn it off and turn it on (ive done it several times now, along with plugging in and unplugging the FW cable)

Your setup may behave differently than mine, but after my last call to tech support, where we experimented with different boot orders, here's the one that finally worked for me: (1) turn on all external drives; (2) turn on computer; (3) turn on n12 only after computer has *fully* booted; (4) verify FW driver is active in FW Control Panel 20-30 seconds after n12 has fully booted; (5) open Cubase and verify Cubase Ready light is lit; and (6) turn on speakers.

[nik nak]

Thanks dylpickl!

Ill give it a go later today/this evening (GMT) and see what (if anything) happens.. failing the excellent support from this forum, Ill have to wait 'til i can next take a day off work (week this friday) to be able to ring Yamaha tech support.

Ill let you all know the outcome.

FYI: im running the very last of the PPC G5 desktops dual 2.3/5.5Gb/10.4.11 with cubase 4.5.2

[kire]

Originally Posted by Geosync

OK, I get ya..

You want to do OTB 2 mix.

2 approaches

A: 2 Pass

Pass
1: 1-12 n12-1 ---> REC bus 1---> new track 1 13-24 n12-2 ---> REC bus 2---> new track 2
Pass
2: new track 1 -- n12 1&2 new track 2 -- n12 3&4 ---> REC Bus FINAL Mix..



B: 1-12 n12-1---> ST bus 13-24 n12-2 ---> ST out (RCA)----> 2TR IN (RCA) n12-1 Use 2TR to ST

Thanks George! now I'm in sync :-)

Case A) was in my words (my earlier post) "12 channels summing in each N12 and then 2 stereo tracks into Cubase"

and regarding case B): In your old post Yamaha n Series you did the "ST out (RCA)----> 2TR IN (RCA) " using the Graphic Patchbay instead of with an RCA-RCA cable, right? (not to 2TR in though)

For the monitoring mix I would do the same with the AUX bus right?
Like for example AUX L/R n12-2 ---> 11-12 n12-1 using a cable, or something similar with the Graphic Patchbay.

What's the typical delay between devices when you use the graphic patchbay?
Is it a "point to point" thing between the devices or is the computer actually "routing traffic"?
Would you recommend the cable or the patchbay?

The graphic patchbay is cool, but is it so that the old mlan driver will eventually be phased out and all new Yamaha firewire equipment will use the Yamaha Steinberg driver?

Will there ever be a graphic patchbay for the new drivers or will they always be point to point only?

If I'd go for another N12 instead of an MR816 I will probably not reflash it for the new driver, I see no reason for that for the time being, it just seems to limit the possibilities, or am I wrong?

Comments anyone?

[nik nak]

right then.. school boy error on my part (isnt this usually the case for noobs on here??).

Turns out i didnt install the v1.0.3 firmware driver (stupidly saw v1.0.7 from the download page and thought that was the latest version of this updater, so opt'd for that alone!)

seems to be all working now so yeah, thanks (again) for the support on here as not only have i now got my n12 fired up, ive also saved a whole days holiday that i wouldve taken off in this wasnt the case - double wooo!

[terence]

Originally Posted by mcurrent

1. When you download your updates for your new FW driver make sure when your downloading firmware 1394 you "shut down" your default driver....."dont uninstall it yet" After you load the new firmware then delete the old driver.

2. Download the n12 firmware.

3. Download Tools for V2.0

4. Delete old driver.


I made the mistake of removing my mLAN driver before the 1394 firmware was installed.

Shut down the n12 and reboot and the new driver should kick in for recognizing and installing new driver hardware.

Frustrating processs for some of us.....others seem to breeze right through without a glitch.....

Good Luck....

Mike

Hi Mike-

I was just about to take the plunge and do the Tools for n Ver. 2 update when I saw your post. The first item on the TO DO list in the the pdf guide says: "Uninstall n Driver, AI Driver or mLAN Driver/mLAN Tools and Extensions for Steinberg DAW". But I think you are telling me not to uninstall the mLAN until I have the firmware installed. Not that I don't trust your integrity or anything - but did Yamaha simply get this wrong? Or have I misunderstood something? I'm not an expert and want to know what to trust.

Thanks,
Terence

[mkok]

Hey Nik Nak

I now know why it is taking me so long to get my replacement n12. There are none in the country. My n12 went for repair the week after new year and they decided to replace it. Trouble is I still haven't got the replacement. The shop PMT have eventually lent me an interface but I can not belive that Yamaha have no plan if they have to replace a faulty unit. End of March I have been qouted!! It is a good job I don't do this for a living

[Geosync]

Graphic Patchbay instead of with an RCA-RCA cable, right? (not to 2TR in though)

Right



For the monitoring mix I would do the same with the AUX bus right?
Like for example AUX L/R n12-2 ---> 11-12 n12-1 using a cable, or something similar with the Graphic Patchbay.

Right again

What's the typical delay between devices when you use the graphic patchbay?
Is it a "point to point" thing between the devices or is the computer actually "routing traffic"?

Basically none, it's device to device. You'll still have the computer latency but it's the same on both n12s.


Would you recommend the cable or the patchbay?

The newer drivers are more stable, but it's a matter of preference FOR NOW

The graphic patchbay is cool, but is it so that the old mlan driver will eventually be phased out and all new Yamaha firewire equipment will use the Yamaha Steinberg driver?

Yes that's right


Will there ever be a graphic patchbay for the new drivers or ?

No


If I'd go for another N12 instead of an MR816 I will probably not reflash it for the new driver, I see no reason for that for the time being, it just seems to limit the possibilities, or am I wrong?

You are right except the stability of the drivers and the lower latency.

Yamaha Japan will definitely nudge us in that direction.

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by blubaru

i just bought an N8. it should be here on the 18th. my question is, should i just download the new drivers and install everything that way or am i going to have to install with the included disks and then go back and install the new drivers. i know this has been beaten to death but everything i have read in this thread has been about replacing the old drivers not starting with a fresh new unit after the new drivers came out.

I received my n12 recently and updated/installed from the Yamahasynth.com download, without having had any previous drivers installed.
(The first thing I did, with the n12 not connected to my PC, was to install the Yamaha Firewire Driver, and checked that in Device Manager I could then see
"Yamaha Steinberg FW Bus" under 'Sound, Video and Game Controllers' then after connecting the n12 via. the firewire cable to my PC, noted that "Yamaha n series FW" was listed too.
I subsequently followed the instructions and did not encounter any problems, all of this without having had any previous or old drivers installed re. my n12,

Brian

[mcurrent]

Originally Posted by terence

Hi Mike-

I was just about to take the plunge and do the Tools for n Ver. 2 update when I saw your post. The first item on the TO DO list in the the pdf guide says: "Uninstall n Driver, AI Driver or mLAN Driver/mLAN Tools and Extensions for Steinberg DAW". But I think you are telling me not to uninstall the mLAN until I have the firmware installed. Not that I don't trust your integrity or anything - but did Yamaha simply get this wrong? Or have I misunderstood something? I'm not an expert and want to know what to trust.

Thanks,
Terence

Terence,

In fine prinit on the PDF instruction page you can read that Yamaha asks you to shut down your default driver.

I deleted my mLAN driver first and my computer wouldn't recognize the firmware 1394.

I had to reinstall my mLAN then right click and shut the driver down and install the FW Driver.......then run delete mLAN driver.

If you make sure each portion of Yamahas downloads were processed correctly you should be fine.

Your new FW driver won't be recognized until you use the delete program from Yamaha.


When the n12 is connected correctly to Cubase your extensions should automatically route your channels for you.

I'm hoping Yamaha simplifies the installation of the FW driver package in the coming weeks for future n12 owners.

Thanks to George and other helpful Members here we've stumbled through this awkward process.

Mike

[terence]

Originally Posted by mcurrent

Terence,

In fine prinit on the PDF instruction page you can read that Yamaha asks you to shut down your default driver.

I deleted my mLAN driver first and my computer wouldn't recognize the firmware 1394.

I had to reinstall my mLAN then right click and shut the driver down and install the FW Driver.......then run delete mLAN driver.

If you make sure each portion of Yamahas downloads were processed correctly you should be fine.

Your new FW driver won't be recognized until you use the delete program from Yamaha.


When the n12 is connected correctly to Cubase your extensions should automatically route your channels for you.

I'm hoping Yamaha simplifies the installation of the FW driver package in the coming weeks for future n12 owners.

Thanks to George and other helpful Members here we've stumbled through this awkward process.

Mike

I followed your pointers, Mike. Thanks, everything works great!

-Terence

[Snowy]

Is anyone experiencing or has experienced drop-outs? Like that yamaha "disconects" and "reconects" after a few seconds, while working with Cubase. Done everything that could be done, but still got drop-outs.

The last thing that somehow reduced the drop-outs was in transport menu, there's "synchronization project setup". Changed the settings completely (5,5,0 numbers in the left bottom of the menu) and it started to drop-out less times. So maybe there could be Cubase fault. Now would like to know, how other people which own yamaha and upgraded it, have this settings.

Or could be this a mather of order of installing the tools, fw, etc.? Followed the instructions from the manuals. Cubase gets linked, has listed n12, everything else works well. As written above, n12 is now v1.0.7 and cubase AI upgraded to 4.5.2.

[d3man]

I never encounter this

::::::::::::::::::::::

Maybe yout IEE 1394 is not compatible with n8

[blubaru]

Originally Posted by BrianR

I received my n12 recently and updated/installed from the Yamahasynth.com download, without having had any previous drivers installed.
(The first thing I did, with the n12 not connected to my PC, was to install the Yamaha Firewire Driver, and checked that in Device Manager I could then see
"Yamaha Steinberg FW Bus" under 'Sound, Video and Game Controllers' then after connecting the n12 via. the firewire cable to my PC, noted that "Yamaha n series FW" was listed too.
I subsequently followed the instructions and did not encounter any problems, all of this without having had any previous or old drivers installed re. my n12,

Brian

thanks Brian, i got my n8 a day early (whee). i did what you said and everything is up and running perfectly. For those of you that get your n8/n12 after the driver update, just download the new drivers and install them in the order previously discussed. make sure to do the prev and click remote on button trick before installing the n firmware updater (to put the n in update mode).

so a little review:

the sound of this thing is incredible. i'm hearing things i have never heard before (like reverb tails or even the reverb itself for that matter). i'm coming from a firepod and m-audio bx5a's (got hs80m's with the n8)so you can see why i couldn't hear crap. anyway, i did a quick mix with a project sending the busses to the n8 and recording back to daw. omg, pure bliss depth i have never heard before in my mixes much less the stereo image. my only problem is now i am going to have to go back and retrack the album i've been working on for the past year, because tracking through the n8 is a whole different ballgame as far as sound then the firepod.

so another happy yamaha customer. yeee

btw, i have a yamaha motor on my boat and that thing is a tank. overtemped it once bad (water pump went and alarm wasn't working). took it to my mechanic who tested it, he said everything was fine. he said thats why i'll never own a boat motor thats not yamaha. motor still runs like the day i got it.

happy recording,

sheldon

[dylpickl]

Hi all, I received my new n12 a couple of weeks ago. Two anomalies:

[1] From the first, the CH 5-8 +48V LED has continuously been dimly lit. If I engage the button, it lights fully. The phantom power itself for these channels seems healthy. The CH 1-4 LED is completely off when it's supposed to be and vice versa.

[2] This morning, on the Master Level Meter, I noticed that both the -14 LEDs for the Stereo and Rec meters, and the left -14 LED on the Aux meter, are continuously dimly lit when inactive. When they are activated by a signal, the meters react normally. The right -14 LED on the Aux meter is always off when it's supposed to be.

I did a hard reset, but the issues did not resolve. Has anyone had this or similar experiences? If the n12 was a year or so old, I could probably accept it a little more easily, but it's brand new. Thanks for any input.

[Filipe]

Just wanted to say something:
When updating to the Yamaha Firmware 1.03 it stopped aftering completing the installation and then it just stayed there forever on the "wait until n12 reboot is complete". After trying out with other things changed, and not managing to get the n12 driver working properly, I stumbled upon a post on page 80something of this thread with the following:
2. Simultaneously hold down the [PREV] button and [CLICK REMOTE ON] buttons and turn the power on for the n8/n12.
At first I was like, hmm this looks like some secret weird combo and I didn't find anything like this on any manuals/helpfiles but eh gonna try it since i've exhausted all other options. And well it worked, can't thank you enough, but why the hell isn't this information written anywhere on the official sources?

[sundancexy]

@Filipe: actually, this information is definitely contained in the installation docs of the firmware updater.

[BrianR]

Hi dylpickl,

I have examined the +48v and other LED and can report that my n12 is definitely not exhibiting this.
Not sure why this may be happening but I can imagine it's irritating to look at.

I agree with blubaru about the excellent sound quality, it is the first thing I noticed on first use,

Brian

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by dylpickl

Hi all, I received my new n12 a couple of weeks ago. Two anomalies:

[1] From the first, the CH 5-8 +48V LED has continuously been dimly lit. If I engage the button, it lights fully. The phantom power itself for these channels seems healthy. The CH 1-4 LED is completely off when it's supposed to be and vice versa.

[2] This morning, on the Master Level Meter, I noticed that both the -14 LEDs for the Stereo and Rec meters, and the left -14 LED on the Aux meter, are continuously dimly lit when inactive. When they are activated by a signal, the meters react normally. The right -14 LED on the Aux meter is always off when it's supposed to be.

I did a hard reset, but the issues did not resolve. Has anyone had this or similar experiences? If the n12 was a year or so old, I could probably accept it a little more easily, but it's brand new. Thanks for any input.

You should have it repaired or replaced if it is not working correctly. It's your shiny new Yamaha. we want you to have it proper.

[dylpickl]

Originally Posted by Geosync

You should have it repaired or replaced if it is not working correctly. It's your shiny new Yamaha. we want you to have it proper.

Thanks, George and BrianR. That's pretty much my take on it, too. I'm an old electronics tech, and I know that when voltages are out of whack in a visible way, it begs the question as to whether they are out of tolerance in other more critical areas, such as the signal chain. I do not look forward to packing it up and carting it down to UPS, but I suppose there's nothing else for it.

I finally managed to get the resting-state CPU load to drop a bit, from 30% to 20%, by turning off some of the System visual settings in Windows. Still, with Cubase closed, I have to wonder what in the world the n12 and the CPU have to discuss that would load the CPU so much. Or is it largely the FW driver that's doing it? Anyway, I don't have time to nurse and nudge slow equipment, when I want to concentrate on recording. So, as much as I'd rather not spend $1500 at the moment, I've been shopping iMacs, the 24" ones. Anyone running an n12 using one of the 2009 iMacs? Any problems loading nTools 2.0 onto one? Also, anyone ever have any problems getting Syncrosoft to switch a Cubase license from one computer to another?

Finally, the 2009 iMac models only have one FW 800 port, and I have two external FW drives: a Glyph GT050Q and a Plextor PX-716UF. The Glyph has two 800 ports and a 400 port, and the Plextor has one 400 port. Can I successfully run the 800 line from the iMac to the Glyph, and then run a bilingual line to the n12? I'm thinking the Plextor could ride side-saddle, tapping off the Glyph's 400 port. I asked Mike at Yamaha Tech Support about using the n12's extra 400 port for some of these duties, but he waved me off, saying it was really for patching into extra interfaces, keyboards, and the like. That said, I have tried running the Glyph and the Plextor from the extra n12 400 port without obvious problems. Thanks for any input, folks!

[jdvmi]

Is anyone else having big problems with WDM routing in Vista 64 with the new n12 FW Driver?

Choosing Monitor L/R routes to 5.1 C & SW, choosing nput 1 & 2 routes to 3 mono, and so on. Basically I can't get the n12 working with WDM audio. Any ideas?

[nik nak]

I seemed to have the lost the ability to feed any sound out of my PPC G5's optical/digital outputs. Do i have to unplug my N12/re-route the preferences to use this output?

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by nik nak

I seemed to have the lost the ability to feed any sound out of my PPC G5's optical/digital outputs. Do i have to unplug my N12/re-route the preferences to use this output?

You can change the outputs by changing the settings under the AUDIO tab using AudioMidiSetup

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by jdvmi

Is anyone else having big problems with WDM routing in Vista 64 with the new n12 FW Driver?

Choosing Monitor L/R routes to 5.1 C & SW, choosing nput 1 & 2 routes to 3 mono, and so on. Basically I can't get the n12 working with WDM audio. Any ideas?

Vista64 SP1 here, no problem with WDM, I am using the maximum recommended length of firewire cable ('Lindy' no.30863, 6/6 Premium, 4.5m). Driver v1.2.0
n12 IEEE1394 interface firmware upgraded. ("Texas Instruments OHCI compliant IEEE1394 Host Controller" on Asus P5WDH)

Can't think of what to suggest other than maybe another cable, the other firewire socket on the back of the n12, reinstall the driver, ... I notice that you seem
to be getting routed to the destination 'below' what you select in the output port selection 'dropdown box' (for example you possibly get input 7 if you select input 5 & 6 ?)

Brian

[johnnyz]

Anyone out there running cubase 5 on a macpro with a n-12 and if so how's it goin?Right now i am using ai4 4.5.2 jz

[Chus]

Hello, this is my first post on this board

I purchase a used n12 soon, but without the cubase cd. Is there a chance to get another one from Steinberg or Yamaha or from elsewhere?

Thanks!

[bullfrog]

Hi guys,
This is probably a simple case of wrong button in or out but for the life of me i just can't seem to find the answer.

I have been enjoying using the Yamaha N12 for a few weeks now. I have been mixing some stuff in cubase AI but decided the other day to remix a song on the n12.

I routed all the channels correctly to the n12 and came up with a mix on the N12 that i was quite pleased with. Problem is when i tried to send the mixed stereo channel back to cubase for mixdown i couldnt get it to work. I followed the manual for mixing down but when i hit record the stereo track i opened in cubase records only tracks 1 and 2 which inputs are mono and mono 2 from the recording process.

Basically instead of sending and recording the mixed signal to the stereo track in cubase, the only thing getting recorded is mono and mono 2 as they are the (Left and Right) on the stereo track....does that make sense
Any ideas? Thanks in advance.