Yamaha n Series

[Lusitano]

Originally Posted by stag

Hey Amigo: Try Sinfonia-online.pt (or com) and musifex.pt.

Thanks, I will...

[JB872]

Hi George

The Yamaha n series seems like a nice all in one solution for the home studio/song writer and you've done a great job here answering questions. But if you read around on GS, there seems to be a high demand for a new low cost controller for the guys in the middle. I've mentioned in other threads that Yamaha could probably do it right and at a reasonable price. So I'm wondering, does Yamaha has any plans to make a DAW controller somewhere down the road?

[Geosync]

does Yamaha has any plans to make a DAW controller somewhere down the road?

Thanks for your confidence, We never discuss future plans.

[Brad McGowan]

Thanks for asking the question JB872. Thanks George for not giving us much hope.

Someone please tell me who the company is that can integrate digital audio products and is willing to have an open dialog about the needs of its potential users in regards to a product that is severely lacking from the marketplace. Is it Universal Audio? Frontier Design? Tascam? Mackie? Behringer?

Brad

[JB872]

Originally Posted by Geosync

does Yamaha has any plans to make a DAW controller somewhere down the road?

Thanks for your confidence, We never discuss future plans.

Well I hope Yamaha does get on board because with a couple design changes to the N series they'd have a nice hybrid DAW controller. A couple suggestions so it can be marketed to both the home user and the guy in the middle:

1. If Yamaha is set on including pres, at least give us the option of bypassing them with our own pres so they're inline with the mixer. Nothing against the Yamaha pres since I've never heard them, but for us guys mixing ITB box, one of the most important pieces of gear in the the signal chain is a highend mic pre. Some people have even suggested DAW controllers with a 500 series bucket built in.

2. When in mix mode, I think you should have the option of using the digital eq and dynamic section as is or as a VST eq and dynamics controller. Let's face it, some of the plugins emulations out there sound really close to their analog counterpart and are going to sound better than 8 digital eq's on a $1000 board. The same should be done with the reverb.

[mostlykeys]

Hey guys, i just wanted to chime in here for those of you who have asked about a controller, etc...

If you are considering the n12 and still want a controller, why not go the route of an 01v96 v2. The conversion is excellent, you get pre's, dynamics, motorized faders, etc... You are looking at a few hundred dollars more for the motorized faders on the 01v (which you would be looking at anyways if you added a controller to you n series mixer, etc...). You can send and return up to 16 channels of audio EACH WAY (16 channels to and from your computer) at the same time. And for those of you who will ask, MLAN is working perfectly of my setup as well as on the computers of several people of know (if you want to find out how, pm me as that is another topic).

I have and 01v 96 v2 and a motif XS. As of last week it is all hooked up via mlan. I can send signals to anywhere from anywhere with the click of a mouse. It is much more flexible than protools 003 (sorry, not trying to offend), as you can literally configure your mixer any way you want. I think the n series is a great concept if you have to have knobs for everything and still get your audio into your computer. But if you want controller capability, i think the 01v is hard to beat for not much more.

[mostlykeys]

Originally Posted by JB872

Well I hope Yamaha does get on board because with a couple design changes to the N series they'd have a nice hybrid DAW controller. A couple suggestions so it can be marketed to both the home user and the guy in the middle:

1. If Yamaha is set on including pres, at least give us the option of bypassing them with our own pres so they're inline with the mixer. Nothing against the Yamaha pres since I've never heard them, but for us guys mixing ITB box, one of the most important pieces of gear in the the signal chain is a highend mic pre. Some people have even suggested DAW controllers with a 500 series bucket built in.

I routinely use the line inputs on the 01v96 and notice no real difference in sound quality of the conversion (the line inputs are tied into the pre's on the 01v) when compared to the ff800. In other words, in my opinion, the yamaha pre's are not degrading your sound. If anything they are very neutral sounding. I wonder if it is a design goal, so as to give you optimum sound quality. If you are mixing in the box i don't think the yamaha pre's are going to get in your way. Don't expect the converters to sound like apogee's however (no hyped sound on the yamaha's - just neutral - best if you want unaltered fidelity).

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by JB872

<snip>

1. If Yamaha is set on including pres, at least give us the option of bypassing them with our own pres so they're inline with the mixer. <snip>

you can by using the return side of the inserts. Your choice

2. When in mix mode, I think you should have the option of using the digital eq and dynamic section as is or as a VST eq and dynamics controller.You have the choice to use either, because you can use "wet" to monitor the plug-in and no EQ or Comp. when you print you use the plug-in again, your choice .

Originally Posted by mostlykeys

Hey guys, i just wanted to chime in here for those of you who have asked about a controller, etc...

If you are considering the n12 and still want a controller, why not go the route of an 01v96 v2. Excellent observation. The 02R96 is also in the price range of 24 channel controllers Both the 01V96 and 02R96 will interface ADAT, AES, FireWire orMADI

Thanks for all of the feedback, we're listening

[JB872]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Thanks for all of the feedback, we're listening

I'm gonna have a more thorough read of the manual since it seems that the n series can already do some of the things I'd like it to do.

And I know you can monitor VST plugins by pressing the wet button, but what about the plugins that have high latency like Duende? Using this function successfully depends completely on the latency of the plugin and how many plugs your computer can handle at it's lowest latency setting wouldn't it?

And even though you can monitor the VST plugins, I'd still like the option of being able to switch the eq and dynamic section to a controller so the actual pots on the board are used to control the parameters rather than a mouse.

[RadioBox]

I've had my N12 for about a week now, and I've decided to keep it. The sound quality really is great, and it's a blast to use. I'm glad to hear they are now linkable, as I would love more channels. I'll definitally pick up another one. Will the Hardware Mix function be implemented to other DAW's?

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

<SNIP> Will the Hardware Mix function be implemented to other DAW's?

Not in the cool way it is implemented with Cubase,

I sent you a PM

[electronglow]

Hi,

I've been looking closely at the n12, seems very interesting. I've read the manual, went to see it at a dealer, but no real hands-on experience yet. Here are my thoughts so far:

Pluses:

+ Excellent concept of merging analogue style mixing with DAW functionality.

+ Reassuring design implementation, putting the ADCs and DACs as close to the analogue signal interface as possible, and emulating analogue-style processing in the digital domain.

+ Signal processing takes place within the mixer itself, independent of computer.

+ Simple and quick compressor user interface.

+ Flexible routing, inserts on mic channels.

+ One function per knob!

+ Great subjective look and feel. Sturdy, professional, classic ... okay, even conservative, but sometimes (not very often) that might be a good thing

Minuses:

- No support for out-of-the-box analogue summing

- Only one Aux bus (although thankfully separate from reverb bus)

- No channel EQ bypass button

- "Wet" monitoring usefulness highly dependent upon system latency. Will it still work at 96kHz sampling rates?

- Development of integration features relies on cooperation of separate organizations. Will all future versions of Cubase include support for the n-series?

Best,
-joachim

[Geosync]

Thanks for the positive comments.
I will save screen space and only reply to clarify or offer some extra info


- No support for out-of-the-box analogue summing
It's not an analog mixer, sure. but it does summing. The n can be a stand alone mixer without a computer.
It has a "warmth and airiyness' not usually associated with digital mixers.
Each person has to judge for themselves "Tonal Qualities" but I think most agree that
the 'n' sound is not the "sterile" sound that many think of when one says digital.


- Only one Aux bus (although thankfully separate from reverb bus)
Yes but there are some tricks you can do when used with a computer DAW

- No channel EQ bypass button
True, you must zero the 3 bands or use a VST EQ on that channel (that's new to the n)


- "Wet" monitoring usefulness highly dependent upon system latency. Will it still work at 96kHz sampling rates?

96K? Of Course, all functionality, all the time.
I usually demo the n12 with a buffer size of 512 samples to show that the n-series "wet" monitoring function works a bit better than typical DAW monitoring of yore.

- Will all future versions of Cubase include support for the n-series?

Cubase 4.1 and Nuendo 4 accept the downloadable AI functionality.
They are available at yamahasynth.com


Hope this clarifies

[electronglow]

Thanks a lot for the reply.

96K? Of Course, all functionality, all the time. I usually demo the n12 with a buffer size of 512 samples to show that the n-series "wet" monitoring function works a bit better than typical DAW monitoring of yore.
Okay. What made me doubt was the spec at the n12 download web page, according to which the recommended system sample rate for 5 ms latency is 44.1kHz. If I understood it correctly, using a less powerful computer ("Minimum System Requirements") may result in latencies as high as 50 ms, which I believe would render wet monitoring unusable. Increasing the sample rate presumably places even higher demands on the system.

Cubase 4.1 and Nuendo 4 accept the downloadable AI functionality.
That's good. I was just thinking in terms of future support -- will the AI features still be usable in 5 or 10 years' time? I guess we'll just have to see.

-joachim

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by electronglow

Thanks a lot for the reply.

96K? Of Course, all functionality, all the time. I usually demo the n12 with a buffer size of 512 samples to show that the n-series "wet" monitoring function works a bit better than typical DAW monitoring of yore.
Okay. What made me doubt was the spec at the n12 download web page, according to which the recommended system sample rate for 5 ms latency is 44.1kHz. If I understood it correctly, using a less powerful computer ("Minimum System Requirements") may result in latencies as high as 50 ms, which I believe would render wet monitoring unusable. Increasing the sample rate presumably places even higher demands on the system.

-joachim

The minimum system requirements seem to be more confusing than helpful these days. The recommended system would be the spec to measure your computer against.

[btrox]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Cubase 4.1 and Nuendo 4 accept the downloadable AI functionality.
They are available at yamahasynth.com

Hi George- I have the n12 and am using it (or trying to) with Cubase 4. It's mostly great, but I have a software issue that I can't resolve and I thought you might shed some light on it. Btw, I've emailed tech support and have gotten no reply...

The n12 establishes a connection with the Connection Manager and all audio is seen in C4 and recorded properly. Playback is fine as well, but I cannot get the DAW Remote Control or DAW To Aux sections to communicate with C4. However, the DAW is recognized in the Control Room monitor section. Everything is selected mLan in the Device Setup of C4, and midi is deselected in the Midi Port Setup. mLan is selected in the Audio/Midi Setup and the mLan settings are there for the Midi Devices. I have installed all the latest drivers (mac_ai_v111_e) and repaired permissions, changed firewire cables and checked every possible thing I can think of, but the Cubase Ready icon never lights and there is no transport communication. Cubase AI4 doesn't work either. Am I missing someting?

Thanks for any input

[Geosync]

I've sent you a PM , we'll get you going

In the meantime, make sure you download and install the Steinberg DAW Templates
without these you will not get the added AI functions or illuminate the Cubase Ready LED

[PharohOKNaughty]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

I've had my N12 for about a week now, and I've decided to keep it. The sound quality really is great, and it's a blast to use. I'm glad to hear they are now linkable, as I would love more channels. I'll definitally pick up another one. Will the Hardware Mix function be implemented to other DAW's?

If you don't mind telling, what platform (windows, vista, mac?). What latency, and how reliable has the device driver been?

I have had comments from other users that Yamaha is slow to maintain their drivers, even when the hardware is great.

I have no first hand experience with Yamaha and device drivers, but everything I have bought from them has been very nice. (O3d digital mixer, DG Stomp).

And Geosync seems like a real plus to have for support.

But it would be a real drag to buy this and not get full use out of it due to driver problems.

Thanks so much.

[Geosync]

I'll answer the OS question and let RadioBox add his comments.

OSX is currently 1 unit peer to peer. It is the new driver technology that proves to be very stable and is device aware meaning it knows the device and connects it, names the I/o and properly reports it to ASIO for connection to/from DAWs.

Windows XP/Vista is Multiple unit driver and is the first network driver based on the new code. and is device aware of the new Yamaha devices (n series and Motif XS) It too is much more robust than drivers we have seen in the past .

Feel free to ask me any technical questions. As for opinions.. that's for you guys.. I'm biased..

[btrox]

Originally Posted by Geosync

In the meantime, make sure you download and install the Steinberg DAW Templates
without these you will not get the added AI functions or illuminate the Cubase Ready LED

Hi George- Thanks for all your help! In the end, it was definitely the firewire pci card- good call, problem solved. I never considered it as audio was working fine, so it would seem midi should as well, but that was not the case.

I don't know if the Lacie fw drives being connected has had anything to do with it and I haven't tried to plug them back in yet, but the console will not work properly with the fw pci card in and does work <perfectly> without it.

So, many thanks, George, for being tenacious on my behalf- I appreciate it!

[Geosync]

Glad to help another fellow Gearslut get 'n' to it :)
Truly a labor of love.

[bluemeenie]

Hi George, This product looks cool but still trying to figure out when you monitor back in the N12 can you use the EQ to make adjustments ?

[Geosync]

Notice in the block diagram.. (Input Selector Switch) You choose between Analog & DAW.
Both the compressors and the EQ are available on channels 1-8 and EQ on 9/10 & 11/12

[zenguan88]

hi geo i guess what you meant in the diagram that i could either use the EQ of the n12 or use an plug in EQ?

say i got the neve plug in from UAD, is it possible to control its pararmeters in the n12?

[Stixxs]

Gotta ask how's the sound compare to the Mackie ONYX that seems all the rage at this level. Just talking preamps here. I've got a DAW controler, and EQ in the mix via a UAD-1.

Anyone gotta "N" recording they care to share???

[Geosync]

hi geo i guess what you meant in the diagram that i could either use the EQ of the n12 or use an plug in EQ?

Yes that is correct
say i got the neve plug in from UAD, is it possible to control its pararmeters in the n12?

No, the n12 has an analog approach. It's forte, Awesome mic pres with 84db of gain,
Very high end A/D/A with ultra low jitter wordclock, for stereo mixdown, pro console monitoring and ultra low noise, hi gain to really hear your plugins and make them sound even better on mixdown. Same as if you bought several high end analog pieces.


Gotta ask how's the sound compare to the Mackie ONYX that seems all the rage at this level. Just talking preamps here. I've got a DAW controler, and EQ in the mix via a UAD-1.

Anyone gotta "N" recording they care to share???

I can't answer without out bias, it's my baby. ;)

[Stixxs]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I can't answer without out bias, it's my baby. ;)

I respect that George.

As long as it's high headroom/low noise I'm game.

...And did you say vintage warmth?

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Stixxs

I respect that George.

As long as it's high headroom/low noise I'm game.

...And did you say vintage warmth?

1st: Warmth with air (if you know what I mean) none of our digital mixers have had that character.

2nd: By the numbers

THD .003% (typical digital mixer .01%)
Mic Pre gain 84db ( typical mixer pre gain 50-60db)
Dynamic range 114db
Input noise level -128db


Best spec..... your ears

[KBOY]

Originally Posted by Geosync

The Yamaha n Series combines Cubase AI (Advanced Integration) software with a 8 or 12 channel Firewire studio mixer to create a complete computer recording system with the ease of analog and the power of digital. The seamless integration of hardware and software finally makes computer recording as simple as dedicated hardware units including dedicated transport, track select and rec ready buttons. Yamaha’s discrete class A mic preamps, Rev X reverb, digital EQ and Sweet Spot compression ensure the highest audio quality. The n series lets you control your entire studio providing independent headphone mixes The n12 also includes talkback , monitor speaker selection and control including 5:1 systems.

• 12/8 Input Channels with 8/4 channels of Discrete Class A Mic Preamps
• Built-in 3 band 18 db EQ and Sweet Spot™ Compression on every channel
• Perfect Monitoring with Rev-X Reverb and independent headphone buss
• Total Studio Control with Talkback(n12), Source and Monitor Speaker selection
• 48 Channel CUBASE AI software with special N Series integration features
• Direct Buttons for control of Cubase transport, Track Select, Dry/Wet Monitor and more

For More Information n Seires

n12 MSRP 1799.00 US
n8 MSRP 1299.00 US

Available August 2007

Forgive me if this was covered. I did not read all of the posts. I am putting together a system for a client of mine. He is a guitar player rock/blues and I feel that the simplicity of this system as well as the quality (love the compressor by the way) is hands down the system for him. He does not want to become and engineer. He simply wants to have fun tracking his ideas as well as the player here and there.

My question.

Are there any video tutorials (3rd party) for learning this system?

[Kinetic Spirit]

[quote=Geosync;1584895]1st: Warmth with air (if you know what I mean) none of our digital mixers have had that character.

My first post in Gearslutz but I've been around a long time in the recording/music business.
Anyway, I've been fortunate enough to get my hands on a N12 and I'm amazed at the sound that I get from this board. Like George said, "Warmth with air". Spot on.

I'm finding myself going back to the N12 for just about everything that I want to do because it sounds...well, analog-like and it sure as heck feels like I'm working with an analog board but getting all the benefits of some pretty cool new digital tricks that Yamaha has tossed in.

The mic-pre's, to my ears are extremely smooth, plenty of head-room, warm and they definitely induce a nice airy quality when you want it.

One of the first things that I do when working on a different console is take mics that I'm very familiar with and actually listen to the board pre's I'll be using. Mic-pre's aren't exactly rocket science but I'm always amazed at how much they often vary in sound... So, I try to determine if any glaring spikes or actual tonal emphasis "hot spots" are part of the "sound" of the mic-pre's. Nothing like that happening on the N12 mic-pres. Just accurate, solid amplification that really brings out the best in all my mics. It's as close to pristine sound as I've ever gotten including back to my beloved Neotek Series III, (long gone but not forgotten).

At $1499, it is one amazing console IMHO.