Yamaha n Series

[markmann]

Originally Posted by protoculture

Ok here are my thoughts. No matter what kind of custom windows machine you have built the underlying problem will still be windows. ( unless these companies actually go 'under the hood' of windows you are still dealing with an inferior operating system ). So right from the start you are setting yourself up for potential problems.

Also, these custom music pc's might even add more potential problems as well because their configurations are so esoteric. I believe part of what makes the mac platform so reliable is the fact that they are pretty much all built the same and thus easy for product manufacturers ( like yamaha ) to test on their systems. I doubt these companies are going to go around and test of every custom built audio pc that's out there. I mean look at the problems they have now with stuff like TC powercore and UAD cards not even working on mainstream laptops like Toshiba and Dell.

Go with mac believe me, all around a LOT less problems. I resisted this advice for years and then when I finally gave in I realized the truth of it. The mac generally are designed for artists... windows, for drone government office workers . The choice is yours.

And finally 'inexpensive' usually means cheap. Something is going to suffer as a result of that lower price, usually you. I suggest do a lot of research if you are planning on buying a windows pc and go for quality, not price, the alternative is to go the mac route, which is what I am suggesting you do.

Thanks for the detailed response, Protoculture.

One of the main reasons I've been hesitent to jump into a new digital system head-first are the incompatablity stories I've read about firewire interfaces in general. Seems like most all the interfaces suffer the same click and pop issues that drive many people to near insanity. I must say though that I haven't heard the same about the N-series yet so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Most of the horror stories from the poor folks who tried everything to fix the problems with little to no luck and the majority seemed to be Dell PC's but I've heard the same about Mac so they are not immune to the problem.

I'm leaning toward PC for the same reason many others are.... I've been a PC user for for 20+ years and have had great luck and is what I'm comfortable with. This does not mean that I would not be willing to change but I don't have the luxury having a dedicated laptop for recording use only. I will also have MS Office products and will be using Word, Exel and PP and will need to be able to tranfer data back and forth to my work PC. Not sure if I can do that with a Mac.... can I???

People who own Mac's all seem to love them and I've heard great things about them, not sure if it's the system for me though.

Mark

[protoculture]

Just got my N12 in today.

Literally from the time opening the box, installing drivers to recording Mic and Bass in Cubase, ZERO problems..... 1 hour.

Got 6ms latency at 256 on my Mac Mini.

Perfect, VERY HAPPY..... This thing is very repsonsive, the DAW controllers were much more than I was epecting in terms of performance. Now to set up my two additional monitors!!!



As a side note, performance is great. I'm even using Reason 4 rewired to Cubase. Absolutley no hitches.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by protoculture

Just got my N12 in today.

Literally from the time opening the box, installing drivers to recording Mic and Bass in Cubase, ZERO problems..... 1 hour.

Got 6ms latency at 256 on my Mac Mini.

Perfect, VERY HAPPY..... This thing is very repsonsive, the DAW controllers were much more than I was epecting in terms of performance. Now to set up my two additional monitors!!!



As a side note, performance is great. I'm even using Reason 4 rewired to Cubase. Absolutley no hitches.

Congrats!

With all the horror stories with drivers out there that some companies have been facing it's nice to have rock solid drivers with the n Series.

[mcmacguy]

Originally Posted by markmann

Thanks for the detailed response, Protoculture.

One of the main reasons I've been hesitent to jump into a new digital system head-first are the incompatablity stories I've read about firewire interfaces in general. Seems like most all the interfaces suffer the same click and pop issues that drive many people to near insanity. I must say though that I haven't heard the same about the N-series yet so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Most of the horror stories from the poor folks who tried everything to fix the problems with little to no luck and the majority seemed to be Dell PC's but I've heard the same about Mac so they are not immune to the problem.

I'm leaning toward PC for the same reason many others are.... I've been a PC user for for 20+ years and have had great luck and is what I'm comfortable with. This does not mean that I would not be willing to change but I don't have the luxury having a dedicated laptop for recording use only. I will also have MS Office products and will be using Word, Exel and PP and will need to be able to tranfer data back and forth to my work PC. Not sure if I can do that with a Mac.... can I???

People who own Mac's all seem to love them and I've heard great things about them, not sure if it's the system for me though.

Mark

If reliability, build quality, ease of use, a stable operating system, and resale value matters to you, the Mac is the system for you. Not to mention zero viruses, and no adware or spyware. The Mac version of MS Office has long been compatible with the PC version, as is the free Open Office version. Need any more convincing? Read back thru this forum about Windows users' Firewire problems. You don't see that on the Mac.

Mick

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by mcmacguy

If reliability, build quality, ease of use, a stable operating system, and resale value matters to you, the Mac is the system for you. Not to mention zero viruses, and no adware or spyware. The Mac version of MS Office has long been compatible with the PC version, as is the free Open Office version. Need any more convincing? Read back thru this forum about Windows users' Firewire problems. You don't see that on the Mac.

Mick

Will n12's run on iMAC's? I heard they changed the firewire chipset in them.

[sirthought]

Don't need to start a pissing match about computers. XP works well for thousands of people. The speed is faster for many audio people. And the custom shops like ADK test your software and hardware to make sure it will work before you get the computer. They set up XP to minimize issues.

I own both brands. There are plenty of people who have issues on Mac. They don't all have FW cards that work (see the latest models). They DO get viruses, just not on as large of a scale as corporate windows users, but that is changing unfortunately. The virus protection software for Mac fails all the time. There are all sorts of incompatibility issues with Mac OS, especially when they keep making new releases. All sides need to be vigilant.

The real message is to learn what makes a system work, look at your options and use your knowledge to purchase what you feel comfortable with. And with getting help from a Pro Audio shop selling computers, I'd advise to buy Macs from them too. They can help you by setting up those, just like with XP. Plus, the Macs are so versitile now that you can run both OSs.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by sirthought

They don't all have FW cards that work (see the latest models). .

Why on earth would Apple do that?

I like the iMACS but until someone can for sure say they will work with n12...no go.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by soundrage

Why on earth would Apple do that?

I like the iMACS but until someone can for sure say they will work with n12...no go.

I LOVE....... my 24" iMAC and my n12. a match made in heaven.

only the 8 core guys. There is a new AI driver that was just posted at HERE that mentions 8 core improvements. I do not know exactly what that means..

BTW this link points to motif XS but the driver is the same. The link on the n12 is incorrect.


Last word... the n12 plays happily with BOTH Mac and PC. Choose your platform for your reasons.. The n12 will be your friend either way

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I LOVE....... my 24" iMAC and my n12. a match made in heaven.

only the 8 core guys. There is a new AI driver that was just posted at HERE that mentions 8 core improvements. I do not know exactly what that means..

BTW this link points to motif XS but the driver is the same. The link on the n12 is incorrect.


Last word... the n12 plays happily with BOTH Mac and PC. Choose your platform for your reasons.. The n12 will be your friend either way

George,

is your iMAC relatively new? I think they made the change from TI chipset to something else awhile back. I'm still in the market for a new computer....just got to budget it in/

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by soundrage

George,

is your iMAC relatively new? I think they made the change from TI chipset to something else awhile back. I'm still in the market for a new computer....just got to budget it in/

That was just the newest 8 Core Macs and Macbook Pros.
Sonnet makes a 1394 card for both that work fine.

We ran brand new iMAC 24s at Summer NAMM 2 weeks ago..

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Geosync

That was just the newest 8 Core Macs and Macbook Pros.
Sonnet makes a 1394 card for both that work fine.

We ran brand new iMAC 24s at Summer NAMM 2 weeks ago..

Thanks George

[d-dmusic]

I really love the idea of the n-Series.

Nice pre's, easy compression, EQ, built in reverb for monitor, direct path to the DAW of my choice, a good monitor section (switches, dim, etc..), TALKBACK ! (hooray)...

But, I still have a few hardware synths with multi-outs...George any plans on an n16 ?

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by d-dmusic

I really love the idea of the n-Series.

Nice pre's, easy compression, EQ, built in reverb for monitor, direct path to the DAW of my choice, a good monitor section (switches, dim, etc..), TALKBACK ! (hooray)...

But, I still have a few hardware synths with multi-outs...George any plans on an n16 ?

Trust me, they never discuss future products/

[protoculture]

Originally Posted by sirthought

Don't need to start a pissing match about computers.

I dont think anyone was trying to.

What I saw was people offering their advice about which platform works best.

[protoculture]

Maybe I asked the wrong questione earlier....


Can I use my UK N12 in Canada? I see that the transformer( power adapter ) exists outside the N12 itself, so I think this is a good sign.

Does anyone know?

( on the back of the N12 it says this ) 36 volts 50-60 hz

on the PA-30 Adapter itself it says :
input : 230v, 50hz 65w


would it just be a case of getting a north american version of the PA-30?

OR

on the power adapter itself does INPUT : 230v means 'maimum input' so all would need is a plug converter. Maybe if one of the north american n12 owners could read out what the settings on their PA-30 that might help. Thanks Guys!!!

I got this from the following URL - Buy Yamaha MG166CX 16-Channel Mixer With Compression and Effects online
"Power supply adaptor: PA-30 AC adaptor (AC35VCT, 1.4A); 100V, 120V, 220V, 230V or 240V, 50/60Hz"

[grame99]

anyone tried these updated on 30th june?

[protoculture]

Originally Posted by grame99

anyone tried these updated on 30th june?

Yep, I did. All good.

[wakestyle]

Are any of you guys getting latency around 3ms or lower with the N12?

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by wakestyle

Are any of you guys getting latency around 3ms or lower with the N12?

It's possible, but if you use Cubase, the monitoring is very low latency even when buffers as high as 512 are used.

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by Geosync

It's possible, but if you use Cubase, the monitoring is very low latency even when buffers as high as 512 are used.

Can you elaborate? And what is the lowest sample buffers allowed?

ex. at 512 : 6ms
at 64 : 3ms

I guess that results will vary slightly from computer to computer?

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by wakestyle

Can you elaborate? And what is the lowest sample buffers allowed?

ex. at 512 : 6ms
at 64 : 3ms

I guess that results will vary slightly from computer to computer?

Hopefully some of the others will chime in.
When you use the n12 with Cubase, the sample buffer doesn't seem to be as much
of an issue with the AI drivers. Steinberg says that the MR816 has no latency monitoring.
The n12 is not the same driver but it does seem to much more forgiving in terms of buffer settings.

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Hopefully some of the others will chime in.
When you use the n12 with Cubase, the sample buffer doesn't seem to be as much
of an issue with the AI drivers. Steinberg says that the MR816 has no latency monitoring.
The n12 is not the same driver but it does seem to much more forgiving in terms of buffer settings.

This must mean for monitoring n12 directly or stand alone mode. There's no way that there would be no latency while monitoring tracks via cubase. Possible 3-5ms? close?

[mkok]

I have changed to the new driver and am sudenly experiencing a problem I had before rebuilding my pc. It seems to take ages for the driver to load. When I right click oin the task bar icon it shows as driver auto but off. I then walk off for a while and eventually it comes on. When on it works fine.

I had this on the old driver as well. When I re-installed xp it disapeared but this upgrade has started it again. Also when closing down the win sound driver takes a while to close.

Does anyone have the same prob? Win xp pro sp3 C4 (latest)

[wakestyle]

I've heard that at 48khz and 128 buffers, equates to 4.2ms.

that's not to shabby for firewire at all.

come on guyz, please help me out here!

44khz at 64 = ??
44khz at 128 = ??

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by wakestyle

I've heard that at 48khz and 128 buffers, equates to 4.2ms.

that's not to shabby for firewire at all.

come on guyz, please help me out here!

44khz at 64 = ??
44khz at 128 = ??

I don't know much about it at all. I usually run at 256 or 512.

You could run the Centrance latency test
CEntrance, Inc. / Downloads

Check out post 8 over here
Home Recording dot com BBS

There's some other threads where it's talked about quite a bit and do a search here at Gearslutz. I know there have been some threads about it here.

[wakestyle]

all you have to do is look at cubase devices and it says....

if you have a dual or a quad, you're likely to be able to try 64 sample buffers.

It seems 'roughly', that you'll get twice as much power for plugin's and 128 from 64, twice as much from 256 to 128, and so on.... At least for smaller insignificant plugin's.

Many of you seem to be monitoring live with the 'wet' mix with N12! I can't wait to try it out... as well as the "sweet_spot", they look quite awesome. I know latency can be eluding sometimes, especially after trying some pci cards out you really won't notice it. But depending on what your doing, you really should set your buffer down to 128 at least if your recording live. Mixing would be no problem to set a higher buffer, as well as if your going to monitor direct.

P

[wakestyle]

can anyone comment about the sweet spot compressor? any comparisons? Looks like the up and coming Yamaha box's will have them as plugins? Ya that would be pretty "sweet".

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by wakestyle

can anyone comment about the sweet spot compressor? any comparisons? Looks like the up and coming Yamaha box's will have them as plugins? Ya that would be pretty "sweet".

The plug-ins are real-time editors, you will actually be using the hardware.

[trock]

I use the N12 with Cubase 4.1.3 and when i record i set the N12 to 128 and am getting 3.4ms

when i mix i set the N12 to 512

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by trock

I use the N12 with Cubase 4.1.3 and when i record i set the N12 to 128 and am getting 3.4ms

when i mix i set the N12 to 512

Wow! Thats very nice!

thanks