Yamaha n Series

[to-pse]

One more thing that I just noticed:

The n12 has just one AUX-send which is freely usable (the other one
seems to be hard-wired to the reverb unit).

This is really a shame for live-use where I would prefer to be able to
create at least 2 different monitor-mixes...

Any work-around for that?

Tobias

[Geosync]

the n12 is designed as a recording mixer, so it's optimized for personal recording.
the "analog" outs are most powerful when used as a very flexible monitoring system for the computer, obviously, you see more potential for the n12. Because it sounds so good, live sound would benefit sonic-wise for sure. Go to the web site and look at the block diagram for optional routing.

If you ask specific questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them.

[to-pse]

Originally Posted by Geosync

the n12 is designed as a recording mixer, so it's optimized for personal recording.
If you ask specific questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them.

Hi again,

thanks for taking the time. I have adequate equipment in my project
studio for recording.

I'm currently looking for a live-mixer which gives me the ability to record
all the musicians at a gig on separate tracks to be able to completely remix
the songs for a live-cd at a later time in the studio.

6-8 channels with preamps, 2 stereo line-ins would be adequate. I'm
currently using two aux-sends for generating two different monitor-mixes
for the musicians (three would be better, but I can live with just two)

This is the place where products like Mackie Onyx or Phonic Helix would
have some advantage over the N12... on the other hand I'd like to
have the compressors in the input-channels and the reverb-unit
(which the Mackie does not have)

So if you could advise me, if & how I could use the two additional
output-busses of the N12 to use them as a way to create additional
monitor-mixes, then the N12 would be my number 1 choice...

Tobias

[Lusitano]

Originally Posted by Geosync

If you ask specific questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them.

I'm interested in buying a n12.

I have asked twice @ https://www.yamaha.co.jp/info/global/other.php for a list of dealers in Portugal, but I got no answer.

I'll ask it here again.

Where in Portugal can I buy a n12?

Thanks

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Lusitano

I'm interested in buying a n12.

I have asked twice @ https://www.yamaha.co.jp/info/global/other.php for a list of dealers in Portugal, but I got no answer.

I'll ask it here again.

Where in Portugal can I buy a n12?

Thanks

I have asked my contact at Yamaha Japan

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Lusitano

I'm interested in buying a n12.

I have asked twice @ https://www.yamaha.co.jp/info/global/other.php for a list of dealers in Portugal, but I got no answer.

I'll ask it here again.

Where in Portugal can I buy a n12?

Thanks

You could always order from Musikhaus Thomann Cyberstore Eingang

[Geosync]

So if you could advise me, if & how I could use the two additional
output-busses of the N12 to use them as a way to create additional
monitor-mixes, then the N12 would be my number 1 choice...


We are shooting a video for the n12 today..

I will think about it and reply when I really have time to think about it.

[Lusitano]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

You could always order from Musikhaus Thomann Cyberstore Eingang

Thanks, but I'd rather buy it in Portugal from a Yamaha's official dealer.
It makes things a lot easier for me.

[kappe307]

Hi Geosync,
I'm interested in buying a n12
I'm now using Sonar because in my opinion it have a better summing sound compared to Cubase
but i'm searching for something that have more open and warm sound!

If I mixing with n12 tracks from cubase I could have of the true advantages?
I could have a better sound (better bass dynamics, tracks separation or open sound) using n12 summing and/or compressors and eq compared to cubase summing and comp/eq?
Is mixing with n12 comparable to the advantages of the use of an analog mixer for summing tracks?

\<.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by kappe307

Hi Geosync,

I could have a better sound (better bass dynamics, tracks separation or open sound) using n12 summing and/or compressors and eq compared to cubase summing and comp/eq?
Is mixing with n12 comparable to the advantages of the use of an analog mixer for summing tracks?

\<.

That's a tough question for a lot of reasons.
1: I will give you my opinion based on my ears, my room my monitors, headphones experience etc.

2: As for the Specs of the summing of the n12. It's pretty amazing as a stand alone mixer.

3: The A/D and D/A is also very pristine. It must be to truly hear what the mic pres give you. They are rich and full with air on the upper end. Only the best circuitry can produce that.

Will that make your mixes sound better? , of course, recording and monitoring what you have recorded. Analog or VSIi . You can really hear the subtle qualities OR the digital harshness of different plugins. It will change your selection process for sure ;-)


I am a fan of the latest generation of Cubase 4 sound, but each of us has their own opinion.

Worst case, Track with the included Cubase AI using the advanced integration, transfer the wave file to Sonar, mix there and transfer back to AI for Down mix.

Honestly, I don't thin k all that effort will yield any better results, but you may feel differently.

Either way, the n12 will improve your sound :)

[kappe307]

Thanks for the quick reply!
I don't think to export from cubase for mixing in sonar
it's too complex!
if I buy a n12 I want to use cubase and n12!!!
I think that cubase's interface is better than sonar's
and it is more stable!
but the cubase's mixdown is too muddy in my opinion
I have used cubase sx 2 , I don't still try cubase 4.

There is a difference in sound engine between sx 2 and 4?

I record bands in my project studio and live gig, and I create projects with VSTi and audio tracks like guitars and vocals.
I wanted to buy mackie onyx with firewire interface at first, but n12 permet my to record tracks after compression and eq and it include grat monitor facilitys and reverb (fundamental for a great vocal take!).
If cubase 4 and n12 sounds like or better than sonar is the product that I waiting for!

[Geosync]

The sound engine was changed in SX 3 to the same as Nuendo and the channel strips
and mix and monitor buses are improved in Cubase 4.

There is a world of difference between SX2 and 4.

You will be very happy

[kappe307]

Thanks George!
I will try it! ;)

\<.

[PharohOKNaughty]

This product sounds very nice for my application. I will be downsizing from my rather expensive 8 channel Millennia, 2 channel Avalon, and Apogee sysytem when I move from California to Buenos Aires. Really I only need a small high quanity unit like the N series. (but it is real easy to get used to those Millennia pre amps)

I will be using it with Sonar and my current DAW is an dual core Athlon 62 X2 4800.

I have brought up this unit on the Sonar forum but no one seems to have used the product yet.

My question is: can you give any information about the latency of the system, compared to competitiors like MOTO or my current Frontier Dakota?

Any thought about firewire chipsets, or any other hardware issues?

Thanks

[Geosync]

Sorry for the delay.


I will be using it with Sonar and my current DAW is an dual core Athlon 62 X2 4800.
I do not have that but I will show you on a MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz Core Duo w/ 1GB RAM
and Cubas AI that is included as a reference.

I have brought up this unit on the Sonar forum but no one seems to have used the product yet. Understandable, the n's are just now shipping and in small quantity. Since Cubase AI is included, other platform users, like you will come a bit later.

can you give any information about the latency of the system, compared to competitiors like MOTO or my current Frontier Dakota?

See attached screen shots

Any thought about firewire chipsets, or any other hardware issues?

1394 Chip Set Compatible with n12/n8
- AGERE FW323-05
- AGERE FW323-06
- TI TSB12LV23 + PHY
- TI TSB12LV26 + TSB41AB03
- TI TSB43AB22/A
- TI TSB43AB23
- VIA VT6306
*ATTENTION
The manufacturer may alter the above mentioned Chip Set without notice. Depending on the change, there's a possibility of it not working properly with n12/n8.

1394 Chip Set NOT Compatible with n12/n8
- NEC D72873GC
- NEC D72874GC
- NEC uPD72874

[Lusitano]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I have asked my contact at Yamaha Japan

AND???

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Lusitano

AND???

He said he would get a list from the Portugese Distributer.

Sorry, I have not had a reply from Portugal

[to-pse]

Originally Posted by Geosync

So if you could advise me, if & how I could use the two additional
output-busses of the N12 to use them as a way to create additional
monitor-mixes, then the N12 would be my number 1 choice...


We are shooting a video for the n12 today..

I will think about it and reply when I really have time to think about it.

Hi again,

did you have time already to think about this? I do have to make my
decision within the next couple of days...

Best regards,
Tobias

[Geosync]

I sent you a private message on Sept 23rd.
Read that and we'll continue

[valmundo]

I am interested in getting an n series mixer but I wonder whether the n8 would best suit my needs rather than the n12. I know that the n12 can handle surround sound mixing and the n8 cannot. Also, the n12 obviously has more channels, and finally, the transport features are more expansive as well but I wonder if there is anything else I am missing?

Other than the listed differences above, what else is included in the n12 that is missing on the n8.

[Geosync]

N12
100mm Faders
6 Analog Outputs + CR& Aux Phones
8 Mic Class-A Preamps
2 Stereo Line Inputs
2 Track RCA input for CD,Tape or iPOD
RCA Stereo Out
MIDI I/O Port
Footswitch Input (Punch-in default)
16 Digital I/O via FireWire
3 Work Modes ( Stereo, Hardware, 5.1)
Talkback Mic
Control Room Speaker selection
Down Mix selection
Headphone Down Mix function


N8
60mm Faders
2 Analog Outputs + CR& Aux Phones
4 Mic Calss-A Preamps
2 Stereo Line Inputs
2 Track RCA input for CD,Tape or iPOD
RCA Stereo Out
MIDI I/O Port
Footswitch Input (Punch-in default)
12 Digital I/O via FireWire
2 Work Modes (Stereo, Hardware)

[soundrage]

George,

I've got just a little confusion about the N12...

My current setup is a Delta 1010 and I use an Alesis Studio 24 mixer, mainly for things like routing.

I don't see that the N12 has an Aux Input. On my console I use an Aux Input for mixing. I mix inside Sonar and route everything to two outputs on my 1010 which are sent to the Aux in on my console. This bypasses faders and everything else on the console as I am mixing in the box.

How would I do this with the N12? My thinking is you would set it to ST mode?

[Geosync]

My current setup is a Delta 1010 and I use an Alesis Studio 24 mixer, mainly for things like routing.

Of course the n12 does what both the 1010 and the Studio 24 does as well as seperate mic pres.

I don't see that the N12 has an Aux Input. On my console I use an Aux Input for mixing.
There is aux in from the DAW and there is 2 track in for monitoring.

How would I do this with the N12? My thinking is you would set it to ST mode?

Actually ST Mode is 12 Analog inputs that go to the Aux bus for talent monitoring through the Aux Phones, the Stereo bus along with the 2 Track input sent to the main outs (Also sent to the DAW) and the Rec Bus sent to the DAW.

The Hardware Mix Mode is 12 DAW inputs + 2Track Input DAW Aux send + DAW Stereo Send for monitoring, Of course you can then bounce all of that to the Rec bus back to the DAW for Bounce Downs recording using the EQ Compression and Rev X Reverb

The routing can be very powerful but not needed for day to day recording..

If you have more detailed questions, send me a PM

[obscure object]

hi George,

Sorry, I tried to do my homework, but there's something i don't get here: are the eq and compressor channel strips analogue or digital (acting as plug-ins)?? are they post/pre the converters?? I understand the tracks are recorded dry?? .... in hardware mix mode, if the channel strips are REAL analogue, that should mean the the tracks from DAW are converted D/A, processed on the mixer in analogue, n A/D to DAW again?? this is a great convenience for doing some OTB mixing but it puts the quality of the converters into the equation ... I hope i'm making some sense ... I like the hybrid approach, but i'm a bit confuuuused!

[Geosync]

are the eq and compressor channel strips analogue or digital (acting as plug-ins)??


"Anyway to put the EQ pre compressor???
I see there is a AD just after the insert point. Are we talking about a digital console, where the summing happens digitally or is it analog summing?

Not on the "Live analog input but you can use the excellent channel strip EQ in Cubase and then use the compressor on the n mixer. There is a block diagram of the signal flow on the web site n Series Block Diagram

Although, the n series is not an analog console, it looks, feels and sounds analog with some cool workflow enhancements that could only be implemented in a digital mixer.

You will definately have to hear this mixer. You will then draw your conclusions about mic pre "airiness" overall "Musicality" of sound. It has consistently impressed those few of us that have some "hand-on" with it."


I understand the tracks are recorded dry?? ....
Dry means no VST effect. The compressor and EQ are not considered effects and WILL
be recorded to help with the dynamics and color of the recording. Using a good mic that is properly placed and matched to the performance and the room, very little compression or EQ will be used. The morphing compressor is very cool in the fact that it is more of a "characterizer" than a dynamics baby sitter.



in hardware mix mode, if the channel strips are REAL analogue, that should mean the the tracks from DAW are converted D/A,

No the n series IS a digital mixer, even though it does not "Act" or "Sound" digital.
So therefore, it stays digital and very pristine. On an interesting side note.......
because the n is digital and has such great analog spec, you can REALLY hear the quality of your plug-ins. You will immediately begin sorting the "clean and warm" plug-ins from the plug-ins that are harsh or leave weird artifacts. It's amazing how your
mixes will change



Hope this helps, it's new and a different approach so it will be confusing. Remeber, it's a digital mixer with GREAT analog Mic Pres and monitoring.

Hope this helps. The link in the quoted section is to the block diagram.

There is also a quicktime movie showing a basic recording session you may want to check out

WORKFLOW MOVIE

It's 17 minutes long but goes through tracking to mixdown to export to CD or iTunes mp3 etc.

[obscure object]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Remeber, it's a digital mixer with GREAT analog Mic Pres and monitoring.

Thx George, that sums it up pretty well .... the n series looks like a great product n u're doing a great job supporting it

on a side note, since it's a digital mixer after all, are the eq's n compressors on the mixer 'recallable' for each session?? ...... pffffff details details sorry ... i imagine they're not .... but it'd be cool if they are .... more options to play with .... ok i'm gonna leave u tend to ur work now.

sorry can't watch the video ... i'm on modem!

[lukejs]

OK... after seeing the workflow video, I think I get it.... this is what you get with an N12...

12 mic pre´s
12 AD converters
2 DA converters

A daw control section for stop and play, rewind.. etc..

Digital EQ, Compressor, and Rev-x reverb

mix 12 tracks down using the console eq, compresor, reverb, or vst´s in the plugin bin on the tracks in cubase.

I was kinda under the impression , like a poster above, that this console had analog eq, and compressor, and there were DA converters from cubase out to the console.

So, what this really is, is an AD interface with DAW controller , with everything except fader automation. So, does this mean, that upon mixdown, if I want to use the console, I only have 12 tracks from cubase that can be mixed down on the console ? I like the idea...for small project studios, and home studios... and musicians.... but.... if you´d hurry and make two of these linkable.... it would be more appealing to studios with a need for more track counts.

So, in conclusion, this is a 12 channel interface, that makes mixing easier,by using hardware ..real knobs...etc... , taking people´s eye´s off their computer screens so they can concentrate on the music... I like the idea... becuase it´s hard to close your eyes, and listen to the music while tweeking your favorite plugin ! Here´s my idea for another more pro controller-console..

Characteristics :

16 mic pre´s
16 AD converters
24 channels of DAW control
connects to pc or mac with proprietary pci e card for sending the audio, and the control information.
Each channel has:

The usual... phase reverse, low pass, gain, etc..

a "plugin" section, with one button (and led readout) to push for scrolling through the plugins you have inserted on that channel, with about 8 knobs..... each knob has a little led readout next to it, so that by pushing down on the knob, you can scroll through the plugins controls to be assigned to that knob. Or, even better, when a plugin is selected, the knobs are automatically assigned, and you can read right next to the knob, what it controls.

100 mm motorized touch sensitive faders... buss sends... etc....

touch sensitive moving faders... 100 mm

Something like this.... I´d surely buy.....