Yamaha n Series

[Blister]

Just decided - after a few PM's from Geosync - to purchase an N12 to replace my dead i88x. Cheers for the advice.

A quick question on DA conversion and routing.

If I'm routing stems to the N12 where in the signal chain does DA conversion take place?

I understand the mixer is purely analog as far as EQ goes... What about the morphing compressor? and other DSP, is this added to the before or after after DA conversion?

Cheers.

[Geosync]

Jim,

The EQ is also digital ;-)

Here is a link to the block diagram

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by Geosync

On the Mac you can Aggregate (combine) different Core Audio drivers.
So pick any other pres you want....

Hmmm, that's news to me. Just plug everything into the Mac via FW and it'll work in Cubase? Or do you combine them through some other software?

That would be cool if we could do that on XP. I imagine it's more of a Mac thing than a Yamaha thing, correct?

Originally Posted by Geosync

The MR816 uses the newest Yamaha/Steinberg FW driver. It is not mLAN or AI it is unique. the n12 and the MotifXS will be able to be updated to this driver sometime later..

Wow! Didn't expect to hear that. I was waiting for the MR816 to come out to see how it played with the n12. I guess this signals the end of mlan? Will future n-series be sold without the mlan feature? Any date on the MR816?

Evidence keeps pointing to the need for a n24.

[Honch]

Much has been said in this thread about the astonishing facilities and possibilities with n12/n8 TOGETHER with Cubase, in the mix and integrated department and AD/DAs and sound quality.

But there's very little concerning MIDI I/O and functions. I may be the only one in the world still interested in this. There's some rant about speed, but I wonder if it can act as a elaborate MIDI controller as well, say that the transport controls can send midi start off stop messages. Or that it has just as elaborate MIDI controls as the KORG ZERO8 fw mixer, for example. TASCAM series FW mixers has some elaborate MIDI I/O and controls as well.

I know that George favors not to dwell too deep into other manufacturers gear, and are careful not to slam them, but as I still use outboard MIDI gear as well as Master MIDI keyboards I wonder about the MIDI possibilities.

I can say one thing in favor of n-series and Yamaha as well with other manufacturers sites. The owners manual is freely downloadable. On the KORG site, I haven't found any downloadable manual for - say - KORG ZERO8, so that one I don't even consider until this happens.

Being able to read through the manual FIRST, MAY be a deal breaker for me. It can be that KORG has set up their site (sites) so lousy that you have to go through a maze before one kind find any manual. So far I haven't found anyone.

There is scant info on the n12/n8 manual about its MIDI functions. And I hate to use to break out special cables that other unit provides (RME, M-audio 2426 et al).

Also I wonder, what happens if one connects other FW units (of any kind) into the chain that n12/n8 resides on? It seems to use mLan protocol exclusively but how it handles other protocols, or that it is possible to use a true "through" FW connection. That doesn't make the n12 sluggish due to other units sharing the traffic.

As you might have guessed, I am about to swap my gear out, and looking for a decent combined mixer/audio interface with MIDI cables and functions, and that that mixer HAVE to function analog as well, if needed. Don't need excessive amounts of high-quality mic preamps, 2-4 will do. Lots of LINE inputs though, at least 8 if not 12. Semi-pro work, project studio, mostly tv documentaries, broadcast material. Background music creation. That's what I mainly dabble with, on a PC.

Yamaha n12, M-audio NRV-10 (no MIDI though), TASCAM, Onyx, KORG Zero8 has been the only interesting things so far. As the KORG Zero8, as well as TASACM is pricey, that is about the topmost I can stretch my budget.

The N-12 and M-audio NRV-10 shares its features with being able to mix 12 (10) channels back from the DAW. It returns 10 channels of audio from the sequencer to the mixer over Firewire. The Onyx can't do that, nor can the Alesis multi mix. This lets you mix 10 channels of analog audio on the mixer itself. Whether KORG ZERO8 does this or not, I can't tell, because their manual isn't available over the net.

Much like the NRV is some ways, Yamaha is getting into these hybrid mixers with the N8 and N12, which have firewire interfaces that are designed to work with Cubase. Now, on n-series this is is mostly through Cubase only. NRV has no "bundled" daw or software that it is working with specifically. I guess you can't have it all.

/Honch

[sirthought]

Honch,

I googled Korg Zero 8 manual and found this in 60 seconds or less.
http://www.korguksupport.co.uk/upload/ZERO8_OM_efg1.pdf

n12 will be different than what you are looking for, I believe. But I don't really use midi at all.
- Good luck

[Honch]

Originally Posted by sirthought

Honch,

I googled Korg Zero 8 manual and found this in 60 seconds or less.
http://www.korguksupport.co.uk/upload/ZERO8_OM_efg1.pdf

n12 will be different than what you are looking for, I believe. But I don't really use midi at all.
- Good luck

Thanks. I've googled that one too but didn't find it. It's not on their regular site at least.

[trock]

Hi Honch, i don't think this will help you but i have a mixed logic M24 midi connected I/O to the N12 and it works great. no issues with any dropped signals or any problems at all, its as rock solid as my RME FF 800 was for MIDI

i also then have a triton pro keyboard MIDI'd thru a MOTU 128 express which is USB'd to the PC for more MIDI ports since the N12 only has one set.

Mixed Logic

so i can at least report that my MIDI controller has run perfectly with the N12 and controls cubase very well

[Geosync]

We finally have the site ready for the XFactor DVD plus more Now called Music Production Power Pack

XFactor DVD and Cubase Tutorial

[Honch]

Thanks a lot. Well, it's always good to know that some MIDI works flawlessly at someones place. However, it's another gadget.
/Honch

Originally Posted by trock

Hi Honch, i don't think this will help you but i have a mixed logic M24 midi connected I/O to the N12 and it works great. no issues with any dropped signals or any problems at all, its as rock solid as my RME FF 800 was for MIDI

i also then have a triton pro keyboard MIDI'd thru a MOTU 128 express which is USB'd to the PC for more MIDI ports since the N12 only has one set.

Mixed Logic

so i can at least report that my MIDI controller has run perfectly with the N12 and controls cubase very well

[trock]

Just wanted to report this.

there is a def improvement when mixing back out thru the N12, i was switching from Hardware mix and st mix and wow, big difference. now i could spend alot of time adding more plugs or wahtever in my ITB mix, but its so easy to send it out to the n12 and use its capabilities. gotta learn more though on how best to us it

i was thinking about this to

Hardware mix and mixing stems while similar are really 2 different things. with the hardware mix you are really using the N12 fully, the faders especially. with a stem mix i am not sure what to do with the faders on the N12, i think you just leave them at 0?? since my faders in cubase are all set to different levels and may have automation on them i don't think you want to add the faders on the N12 into the mix? i think with stems you are just trying to improve a great mix by sending your tracks out thru channels track to the N12 for some warmth, all you faders, panning etc should be done in cubase.

by the way what do you use the stereo tracks for in hardware or stem mixing? you lose the comp which is sort of crucial for mixing, so just curious?

just starting to try and grasp all of this, for simple 8-10 track songs i think hardware mix is great. for me with 24-32 tracks, mixing with stems but not touching much on the N12 is still sounding good.

after using this for s while i think yamaha should come out with a N24, but have it 24 tracks of mono, and 6 tracks fo stereo and it owuld be a huge winner

also would be cool if as part of cubase you could have PAN be controlled on each track from the N12, and maybe have a button on the eq, comp and verb that would trigger a gui for it on the PC (not a huge deal, just would be nice)

the whole motorised faders thing is moot with the DM series and since you can plug an MCU into this if you want that, but i truly think the N24 all in one would be fantastic.

adding another N12 is cool but then you have the whole transport control section again that you don't need and alot ofthe other controls that you only need once.

anyway, good stuff, sound is fantastic, still learning it as i go and am surprised how versatile it is

[trock]

George what is xfactor? and how is it used with the N12?

ah i watched the video but still am not sure how i would use this with the N12, do i need the keyboard in the video? i already have a korg triton pro i use on its own or with halion etc as a midi controller

thanks

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by trock

George what is xfactor? and how is it used with the N12?

ah i watched the video but still am not sure how i would use this with the N12, do i need the keyboard in the video? i already have a korg triton pro i use on its own or with halion etc as a midi controller

thanks

Sorry to be so late.

Keyboard not required at all
There is about 2,000.00 worth of goodies on the XFactor DVD from:

# Yamaha
# Steinberg
# IK Multimedia
# FXpansion
# Arturia
# Sonic Reality
# Keyfax NewMedia
# Subscriptions and Services
# ASK Video
# Broadjam
# Electronic Musician
# Tunecore
# Obedia

Goto XFactor

Ignore the keyboard [unless you need one ;-) ] watch the extras on the video that was made for the KX
about 1/3 the way in through the end talks about the XFactor Bundle which is what you'll be interested in
TONS of content....

In addition, the complete Cubase AI tutorial from ASK Video is very very good.
It also applies to Cubase 4 as well.

You bought an n12, you have qualified for the goodies. I'd take advantage if I were you.

[Randall]

Qualify for the goodies as in free? I just bought them.. dammit George

Never mind.. I get it.. both are just 10 bucks to cover shipping.. awesome!!..

I think I'm in love with Rachael George

[trock]

thanks george, so you run the DVD EXE and it installs all these packages in cubase 4 ? or is it a seperate program like the morph program?

also where is my serial number located?

will be getting this!

by the way george, i am sure you discussed this somewhere in this thread but have you run 2 N12's together yet? if so how does cubase recognize all the new tracks and stuff?? how do they link together? do both transport controls work or is one a master and one a slave??

yep, thinking about another one if mlan is good, whatabout the new driver you are talking about?

[Geosync]

so you run the DVD EXE and it installs all these packages in cubase 4 ? or is it a seperate program like the morph program?

Each company has a section and an installer..
It will install the app into all appropriate places.


also where is my serial number located?

On the back below the ST Out connectors

how does cubase recognize all the new tracks and stuff??

You will need to add the extra Vst connections and add the second remote as a mackie control to "your template"
how do they link together?

Using the Graphic patchbay it can be a simple or complex connection... in the beginning..... simple ;-)
do both transport controls work or is one a master and one a slave??
the 1st n12 has the cubase ready light and full function..
The second one has the simple functions that are the same as other non- Steinberg software


yep, thinking about another one if mlan is good, whatabout the new driver you are talking about?

mLAN is great... for PC.. the new driver only effects Mac guys

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by Geosync

yep, thinking about another one if mlan is good, whatabout the new driver you are talking about?

mLAN is great... for PC.. the new driver only effects Mac guys

So, if the new driver only effects Mac guys, does that mean PC guys will never be able to use the n12 and MR816 together?

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by sirthought

So, if the new driver only effects Mac guys, does that mean PC guys will never be able to use the n12 and MR816 together?

I'd have to go find it but I think George said it would come later. Back a couple pages I think but I'm running out to dinner.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by sirthought

So, if the new driver only effects Mac guys, does that mean PC guys will never be able to use the n12 and MR816 together?

We are talking mLAN only Here.... or PCs can connect 2 n12s... n8 & n12 etc..
Currently Macs cannot.

The future Driver I was refering to in my most recent previous post is the long overdue
OSX mLAN driver.

The MR driver (for ease of typing) is MR only now
By the end of the year we will see MR and N series together on BOTH Windows and Macs...

[trock]

hey george

i ordered the DVD but i guess its only available as a download, that was the only shipping method available? do you know how big it is since my PC is not on the internet for audio and i will need to burn a DVD or CD of the download?

also will i get a login or something to get to download the dvd in my email or how does it work??

the purchase went thru ok, but again the only way was download only and i haven't received any way to access the dvd

thanks

[Randall]

That's strange.. they are mailing mine.. The site is a little confusing

[wakestyle]

that is some nice sample collections man!

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Randall

That's strange.. they are mailing mine.. The site is a little confusing

It does not let me select a shipping option but the site wants one/

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by soundrage

It does not let me select a shipping option but the site wants one/

The order went through so I'll just have to wait and see. I agree, confusing site.

Cool that we get this though!

[Geosync]

This is what I got when I went to Secure checkout

[grame99]

Originally Posted by soundrage

It does not let me select a shipping option but the site wants one/

doesn't let me select a shipping option either. are we supposed to chose download? of a dvd? 4.3 GB?

[Randall]

Correct me if I'm wrong George.. But what you are paying is about 10 bucks to cover shipping and handling... With an N12 serial # I think you are getting the DVD's free Pretty righteous as Yamaha didn't have to do this.
They are showing us something.. I like it.

If you call a real person (Rachael) answers the phone.. I love that!

[trock]

it forces you to choose a shipping method but the only available option is DOWNLOAD ONLY and you have to select that for the order to go thru

however you do fill out a ship to and bill to address

i just hope by making everyone select download only they don't then think thats what you are going to do and they don't ship anything, and of course there is nothing to download

can you let us know whats up with that george?

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by grame99

doesn't let me select a shipping option either. are we supposed to chose download? of a dvd? 4.3 GB?

I saw something in there where it said the shipping dept will contact you if you choose to download a DVD. I think it's just wait and see but I might give them a call on Monday. To at least let them know their site has a problem.

So I chose download and the order got processed but it says downloads only on my receipt.