Yamaha n Series

[jjdpro]

Thanks for the response. However, since Yamaha's purchase of Steinberg, it seems that the Synergy btw the 2 companies has been anti-climatic to say the least..

Product after product from yamaha, as it pertains to Steinbergs Neundo/Cubase has been 8 channels boxes.

I'm sorry , while we Engineers work in small foot prints studios, there is a hunger and thrist for the Neundo/Cubase equivalent to Digi's Control 24.

This market would not mind spending 3k-5k for a very special controller product like this.

As it stands , I and many others pro's , semi pros' are opting for the Tascam DM3200/4800 mixer controller. The layout is quite nice and the price is even nicer considering what you're getting..

It's just a shame that a company such as Yamaha who is numero uno when it comes to Digital mixers Won't give users what it want's.. They do not want shel lout 10k for a 02R-96...

You guys are dropping the ball big time. Those N-mixers are not going to sell big. They will sell if you add 24-32 faders...

Very dissapointed...

Originally Posted by Geosync

There is definitely a place for both Automation (controllers) and Integration (n series)
The n is not a bedroom toy it's a small footprint tool that supports a new workflow
that is growing rapidly. Sadly, more and more engineers are being forced to work in smaller rooms or at home. The n series is the product of many conversations with a lot of engineers. It's another tool in the toolbox. You request has been heard.

[Geosync]

The n series was not designed for commercial applications.

It's for guys like me. When you get home you don't have space, you don't have time.
You want a small , Very high quality mixer. You are a song writer you play guitar, you sing
maybe you have a synth or 2. Just because you are not a paying studio doesn't mean that you don't want the very best audio quality (true gearslut). You see the 'n' as a personal, extension of your personal musical creation and recording.

This product comes from Yamaha's Music Production group. Guitar players, Songwriters, vocalist, voice over artists, professional podcasters, Need quality too. They don't want moving faders, scene memories,layers, hidden menus or post production features. Just a nice small footprint Pristine, Organic approach to writing and creating "Music". They may not even want the computer, but if is simple enough and "feels"
and sounds open and warm like the old analog of yore, just maybe the n and a laptop
will inspire some good songs.

What you ask for is important too. Your voice is heard. You rant because you care.
We feel ya.

[troggg]

Hi George,

Thanks for your presence and your people skills replying to inquiries.

There are obviously tremendous advantages with the integration between the n series and Cubase AI. I was wondering what further worlds could be conquered as far as integration goes if a workstation like the (Yamaha) Motif XS6 was thrown into the mix.

What would the physical connection look like?

What could the n series mixer and Cubase AI do with Yammy's own workstation it couldn't do with say a Korg M3?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[jjdpro]

Thanks George for your response..I see yours and Yammy makerting point for the N series mixers.. For the Application that you described, albeit a litle pricey for that market segment, should do do well.

I and others (read the Nuendo.com forums) are getting a little on edge with Yammy and Steinbergs marriage.

We held so much promise with the 01x mixer. We figured great thing would come after that product..

Well, good luck ..

Originally Posted by Geosync

The n series was not designed for commercial applications.

It's for guys like me. When you get home you don't have space, you don't have time.
You want a small , Very high quality mixer. You are a song writer you play guitar, you sing
maybe you have a synth or 2. Just because you are not a paying studio doesn't mean that you don't want the very best audio quality (true gearslut). You see the 'n' as a personal, extension of your personal musical creation and recording.

This product comes from Yamaha's Music Production group. Guitar players, Songwriters, vocalist, voice over artists, professional podcasters, Need quality too. They don't want moving faders, scene memories,layers, hidden menus or post production features. Just a nice small footprint Pristine, Organic approach to writing and creating "Music". They may not even want the computer, but if is simple enough and "feels"
and sounds open and warm like the old analog of yore, just maybe the n and a laptop
will inspire some good songs.

What you ask for is important too. Your voice is heard. You rant because you care.
We feel ya.

[laser]

Originally Posted by jjdpro

Thanks George for your response..I see yours and Yammy makerting point for the N series mixers.. For the Application that you described, albeit a litle pricey for that market segment, should do do well.

I and others (read the Nuendo.com forums) are getting a little on edge with Yammy and Steinbergs marriage.

We held so much promise with the 01x mixer. We figured great thing would come after that product..

Well, good luck ..

I fully agree with jjdpro.

I've spoken with several people who have looked at the Euphonix MC controller, but have passed due to the high price-to-performance ratio. The concensus is:

24 channels moving faders, one button flippable from 1-24 to 25-48

Each channel to have a button above the fader to access:
1) EQ (either Nuendo or a plug in)
2) Compressor (either Nuendo or a plug in)
3) Plug-in Reverb
4) Plug-in FX #1
5) Plug-in FX #2

Easily accessible to the right hand are 8 rotary knobs with scribble-strip display above each knob that displays the parameters. The 6-8 rotary knobs are activated when pressing any one of the above #5 buttons, for that particular button. If I wanted to adjust Reverb on channel #12, I could select a "Reverb" button above the #12 fader with my left hand, while adjusting parameters on the 6-8 rotary knobs with my right.

Three rotary knobs for each channel above the faders and five buttons to adjust pan, Aux 1 and Aux 2.

Standard transport functionality (including jog shuttle) and two master channels with faders/functionality.

Some standard editing buttons for cuts and pasting, crossfades, ect. with separate mark-in and mark-out buttons.

Some additional goodies that make editing and other often used functions easier.

No noticable latency for each function. Each function working as advertised.

That's about it.......oh, yeah---at a fair price point--say $5k or under (including any software add-on's to make it work. The people I talked to were pretty pissed at an $18k price tag for the MC controller and then having to shell out an additional $1,200 for the Eucon software).

When you look at the expertise Yamaha and Steinberg bring to the table, this should be very easy to do. The market is there. I think jjdpro, myself and others are saying is that we get the feeling your not listening.

Though we don't want to switch to Pro Tools, we do get the feeling that they are listening to their prospective customers.

Laser

[The MPCist]

Laser, regarding the Euphonix MC controller. Is that 18k for 24 faders?

[laser]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Laser, regarding the Euphonix MC controller. Is that 18k for 24 faders?

No. The base unit has 4 faders and a ton of functionality at that price.

I didn't like the fact that the Euphonix had a touch screen (never liked them), though the functionality of their programmable buttons was extremely impressive.

If it did include 24 faders at that price, I would have bought it. Unfortunately, the fader packs are another $20k. The fader packs are extremely well designed, but the price of admission was a little high for me.

Laser

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by laser

No. The base unit has 4 faders and a ton of functionality at that price.

I didn't like the fact that the Euphonix had a touch screen (never liked them), though the functionality of their programmable buttons was extremely impressive.

If it did include 24 faders at that price, I would have bought it. Unfortunately, the fader packs are another $20k. The fader packs are extremely well designed, but the price of admission was a little high for me.

Laser

Exactly what I was thinking... if it had 24 faders at 18K, I'd definitely buy one as a PT controller. Oh well...

[soundrage]

George I have another question

What about using external mic pre's with the N12? My set up right now allows me to connect a preamp out directly into my A/D. How would I do this with the N12? Would I use an insert?

It would be cool if it had wordclock, but I know adding more features would add cost.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by soundrage

George I have another question

What about using external mic pre's with the N12? (#1) My set up right now allows me to connect a preamp out directly into my A/D (#2). How would I do this with the N12? Would I use an insert?

It would be cool if it had wordclock, but I know adding more features would add cost.

(#1) Use the analog out of your mic pre into one of the line inputs 9-12 for more mic pres or as an insert if you want to use the compressor

(#2) The n12 is a very high quality, very low noise A/D with the latest ultra low jitter wordclock. Just plug your analog devices into the n12.

Since ASIO allows for only one A/D device (unless you are using Mac OSX 10.4 ) you cant use 2 computer I/Os together. Chances are you would introduce more jitter and latency anyway.
Kinda defeats the whole new concept of Advanced Integration don't you think?

[troggg]

Hi, so, George, I assume there isn't any advantage to adding a synth/workstation in the Yamaha family as I asked previously?

Also, I'm also curious like a previous poster about the quality of converters. Thanks.

[Geosync]

To answer the A/D question, It's the best design Yamaha has done to date.
Yamaha engineers are well know for being fanatics when it comes to digital audio.

The new Motif XS also implements "Advance Integration" with Cubase (and other DAWs).
It has true Mackie Control surface functions that allow transport controls, opening. editing and controlling
plugin-ins.

The Advanced integration functions include Quick Set-up work modes that make the proper routing and naming
of audio and MIDI between the Motif XS and your DAW as well as tuning local on/off for MIDI etc.

The AI functions of the included Cubase AI and the downloadable AI Templates for Cubase 4 will allow for
automatic setup of control surface, naming of MIDI tracks and Audio tracks. Proper routing of audio fot tracking or mix down.

It sets up the Motif XS A/D to be used as an input device and sets up the Motif XS's Analog Outputs to be used as your DAW D/As for monitor Outputs.

The Firewire I/O is included on the MotifXS 8 (88 key) it is an option on the XS6 & 7 (61 & 76 key) the option is the
mLAN16E2 and provides 16 outputs from the MotifXS and 6 Inputs for Monitoring and recording from the DAW.

Currently, Both the n Series and MotifXS use a peer to peer driver and Audio connection is an either/or.
There will be a mLAN driver for these newest Yamaha digital Music Production products in the future and will allow
networking with each other and legacy products such as the 01X, i88X & MotifES w/ mLAN16E

After using both the n12 and MotifXS for a couple of months, I have found that turning of the driver and switching FireWire cable takes only a few seconds and the automatic setup makes this the easiest work flow I've ever used.

[zenguan88]

hi when the new mlan driver that would be out later, must we buy an external hardware like the my16mlan to be able to use mlan or just download the driver for use in the n12.

another thing that i noted is that since n12 can connect with xs via firewire, am i right to say 2 n12 could be connect together? i am worried about this because i am surely going to use more than 12 input of sources.

if not would the mlan driver out later solve this problem>? THANKS :)

[Blister]

This is a great product yamaha... But I can't help feeling like l've just been had.

I bought a 'runout' i88x 6 months ago, and I just bought cubase studio 4.

Being that the n-series mixers have coverters built in (that are better than the i88x?) would you advise selling the i88x? Will the n-series sound as good? Are the pre's REALLY as good?

Also, what is the functionality of Cubase AI? Is it basically the same as Cubase Studio 4, between Studio and the 'Full' version, or has less functionality than Studio 4?

Also, do the faders control the actual chanell level in the DAW, or just the input gain running through the mixer? Is the N-12 a fully functional control surface in the 'classic' sense of the word?

When will we see them in Australia?

Thanks!

[Geosync]

must we buy an external hardware like the my16mlan to be able to use mlan or just download the driver for use in the n12.

1: the n-series uses a peer to peer driver now (1 n series OR 1 XS)
2: In the fall (very soon), there will be a Windows/Vista mLAN driver to connect
legacy (01X, i88X, MY16mLAN, mLAN16E) with the new Motif XS or n Series. The Mac version will be the end of the year or 1st of next year and be Tiger/Leopard

These are and will be downloads nothing to buy


since n12 can connect with xs via firewire, am i right to say 2 n12 could be connect together?i am worried about this because i am surely going to use more than 12 input of sources.

Currently only 1. in the fall, you will be able to connect up to 3 units.

would the mlan driver out later solve this problem


You bet, you'll have a choice of one or the other drivers, depending on your hardware and how you want to configure them.

[Geosync]

This is a great product yamaha... But I can't help feeling like l've just been had.
I bought a 'runout' i88x 6 months ago, and I just bought cubase studio 4.

Both wise choices, I imagine you got a great deal on the discontinued i88X.
As for Cubase Studio 4, it's a great product too and all you have to do to add Advanced Integration with the n-series is download the templates from Yamahasynth.com

Being that the n-series mixers have coverters built in (that are better than the i88x?) would you advise selling the i88x? Will the n-series sound as good? Are the pre's REALLY as good?

that depends on your needs.
The i88X is a great I/O with 2 really good mic pres.
the n-series is a mixer with 4/8 Better mic pres, morphing compressors, Rev-X verb, Eq Etc. (yes the pres are better, the best Yamaha has ever made)

If you you are doing Live remote recording in stereo, the i88x is great for that.
If you need ADAT to Firewire it's great for that.
If you want a great interactive digital recording environment, that feels and sounds analog, you'll most definately want the n-series.

Also, what is the functionality of Cubase AI? Is it basically the same as Cubase Studio 4, between Studio and the 'Full' version, or has less functionality than Studio 4?

Cubase AI is a step up from Cubase LE but a step down from Cubase Studio 4 you can have it all with the download mentioned earlier.

Also, do the faders control the actual chanell level in the DAW, or just the input gain running through the mixer? Think of the n as an analog mixer, not a control surface. Although it does have some Major cool interaction with Cubase (Studio 4 for you ;) )

Is the N-12 a fully functional control surface in the 'classic' sense of the word?

No it has Classic sound and some inovative functions such as
1: Work Modes
2: Monitoring or recording of VST on Channel insert using the "wet" Button
3: superior control room monitoring features
4: Combined Direct or DAW monitoring on a channel by channel basis

There's a lot more if you go to the link at the beginning of this thread



When will we see them in Australia?

I do not know. You'll have to ask your dealers down under
I am a product manager in the US.

[zenguan88]

hi geosync I REALLY THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLIES

do you know what i am really piss off with my country (singapore) yamaha salesman, it seems they never educate their salesman about such stuffs like mlan etc. and when the salesman saw the other firewire connection he just say YES IT CAN CONNECT TO 2!!!. hmmms secondly sadly in the whole of singapore theres only one n12 available, i am going to buy it today, i do not know if singapore will continue to bring in this great product. the salesman seems uncertain if they would continue to bring this in! maybe the market is small here but nevertheless :( i do need at least 2 of this n12 monster in the studio :)

geosync i am wondering if your head is able to give a little wake up call to the yamaha dealer over here, apperently there is only one majoro yamaha dealer here. such disappointment.

sorry if i vent my anger here.

BUT yes i am glad that n12 can connect up to 3 ! :)

thanks guys !~
your reply is really appericated :)

[Geosync]

Here is a link to the corporate support page.
Please send them your comments.
Yamaha is always interested in what your
opinion is about our company.
Customer Support - YAMAHA Global Gateway

Thanks for caring enough to let us know.

[soundrage]

Thanks for all the info George!

Are there any companies that actually have an N12 in yet?

I found this in the Sweetwater site...

Just wondering if you know what the problem might be.

Yamaha has informed us that this item has unusually long shipping delay

[Geosync]

Sweetwater should have some unless they are sold out. Sam Ash should have some too.
We are expecting more this week and should be out in stores shortly after.

Because the n series is much like a boutique mic pre or other pro audio gear.
There will be less dealers and less units made. As demand goes up, so will production.

Does that answer your question?

[jarbar]

I'm definitely curious about this product, mostly to be used as a remote recording kit.

When it comes to mixing, can this unit be used as an DA interface that will allow me to use a bit of outboard gear? I'll often use my Space Echo or hardware compressor or two during an ITB mix.
Or is this best used for tracking?

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Sweetwater should have some unless they are sold out. Sam Ash should have some too.
We are expecting more this week and should be out in stores shortly after.

Because the n series is much like a boutique mic pre or other pro audio gear.
There will be less dealers and less units made. As demand goes up, so will production.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, thanks George

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by jjdpro

Thanks for the response. However, since Yamaha's purchase of Steinberg, it seems that the Synergy btw the 2 companies has been anti-climatic to say the least..

Is the conglomerate really against the weather, or did you mean "anticlimactic?"

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by jarbar

can this unit be used as an DA interface that will allow me to use a bit of outboard gear? I'll often use my Space Echo or hardware compressor or two during an ITB mix.
Or is this best used for tracking?

You can do both. There is a lot of routing, monitoring power that is not apparent at first because we highlight the Analog-like ease of use. It's a 12X6 + 2 track send return, analog mixer when not connected to a computer and a 16X16 digital mixer when connected. I have added a link to the Block Diagram that may help you see more of the signal flow of the n

[to-pse]

Originally Posted by Geosync

You can do both. There is a lot of routing, monitoring power that is not apparent at first because we highlight the Analog-like ease of use. It's a 12X6 + 2 track send return, analog mixer when not connected to a computer and a 16X16 digital mixer when connected. I have added a link to the Block Diagram that may help you see more of the signal flow of the n

How many channels can this special version of Cubase shipped with these products record at the same time?

And I guess that it's not a problem to import those created projects on this "light"-version into a real Cubase 4 - correct?

Best regards,
Tobias

[Geosync]

How many channels can this special version of Cubase shipped with these products record at the same time?

16 stereo audio if you are lucky enough to have that much I/O

And I guess that it's not a problem to import those created projects on this "light"-version into a real Cubase 4 - correct?

Correct

[to-pse]

Originally Posted by Geosync

How many channels can this special version of Cubase shipped with these products record at the same time?

48 stereo if you are lucky enough to have that much I/O

That's good to hear - if I remember correctly, Cubase LE was severly limited in that respect...

Tobias

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by to-pse

That's good to hear - if I remember correctly, Cubase LE was severly limited in that respect...

Tobias

Yes, 8 channels is it.

[to-pse]

Well - this sounds nice...

I was thinking about buying a "hybrid" mixer for a couple of months now. First thought about the Alesis Multimix 16, then the Phonic Helix 18 and finally the Onyx 1620...

I also saw the M-Audio NRV-10 where I liked that more than a stereo-return from the DAW was possible, but the number of channels was too small - then I found the n-series and I guess that's what I will be investigating further :-)

Is there any hint on what Firewire-Chipsets will work best with this device?

Tobias

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by to-pse

Is there any hint on what Firewire-Chipsets will work best with this device? Tobias

1394 Chip Set Compatible with n12/n8
- AGERE FW323-05
- AGERE FW323-06
- TI TSB12LV23 + PHY
- TI TSB12LV26 + TSB41AB03
- TI TSB43AB22/A
- TI TSB43AB23
- VIA VT6306
*ATTENTION
The manufacturer may alter the above mentioned Chip Set without notice. Depending on the change, there's a possibility of it not working properly with n12/n8.

1394 Chip Set NOT Compatible with n12/n8
- NEC D72873GC
- NEC D72874GC
- NEC uPD72874