Yamaha n Series

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Randall

Has anybody plugged a turntable into one of these yet? are the rca inputs line level? or am I going to have to find a phono pre-amp?

Way to go Randall !!

I have not tried a turntable my iPOD rocks Hard through them. The RCA doesn't go through the channel strip but is routed to the Stereo Bus.
Befoe investing in a preamp try using RCA to 1/4" adapters if you need it. That way you will have preamps in abundance

[Randall]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Way to go Randall !!

I have not tried a turntable my iPOD rocks Hard through them. The RCA doesn't go through the channel strip but is routed to the Stereo Bus.
Befoe investing in a preamp try using RCA to 1/4" adapters if you need it. That way you will have preamps in abundance

Trying to avoid that route George.. I guess plugging it in and out wouldn't be too much trouble.. depends on the sound quality I suppose.

I'm broadcasting vinyl... why? because I care

[electronglow]

Hi,

Connecting a turntable does not only involve amplification, there's a need for equalization as well. Phono preamps usually implement the so called RIAA EQ curve. If memory serves, there's 20 dB of amplification at 20 Hz (bass), 0 dB at 1kHz, and 20 dB of attenuation at 20 kHz (treble), so we're talking pretty heavy equalization here. Without EQ the turntable signal sounds very trebly.

Cheers,
-joachim

[homestudioguy]

I apologize if this has already been discussed but it appears that one could assign the entire Cubase Mix to channels 1-8 on the n12, send channels 1-8 out and back in via the inserts through an 8-channel analog hardware device then back into the n12 to Cubase for a final mix down into stereo/surround/etc.
Or you could send it to an 8-channel analog summing device, mix there and back into Cubase, stereo.
Or you could just go out to an 8-channel analog summing device, mix there and into whatever media you want to use to send for mastering.
Or.......

Does this sound correct?

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by homestudioguy

I apologize if this has already been discussed but it appears that one could assign the entire Cubase Mix to channels 1-8 on the n12,

1) send channels 1-8 out and back in via the inserts through an 8-channel analog hardware device
2) back into the n12 to Cubase for a final mix down into stereo/surround/etc.
3) you could send it to an 8-channel analog summing device, mix there and back into Cubase, stereo.
4)you could just go out to an 8-channel analog summing device, mix there and into whatever media you want to use to send for mastering.
Or.......


Does this sound correct?

I'm a bit confused by your questions.

All are correct. Why would you need to go out of a really great low noise, Hi gain mixer into another that may not be as good?

You can do all of that totally inside the n12 with the exception of Surround MIXING.. It does monitor. Cubase 4 or Nuendo 4 do a great job of surround with multiple panners
separate surround effects panners, True surround audio path ..Blah, blah blah.

With Cubase4/ Nuedo 4 and the n12 you can do it all.

[homestudioguy]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I'm a bit confused by your questions.
All are correct. Why would you need to go out of a really great low noise, Hi gain mixer into another that may not be as good?
You can do all of that totally inside the n12 with the exception of Surround MIXING.. It does monitor. Cubase 4 or Nuendo 4 do a great job of surround with multiple panners separate surround effects panners, True surround audio path ..Blah, blah blah.
With Cubase4/ Nuedo 4 and the n12 you can do it all.

Well, I just read an article about "summing" in Recording Magazine that suggests that running a digital mix into an analog device then back into digital will add some "warmth" to the project and after looking at the rear panel of the n12 it appeared to me that it could be done so I was just "double checking my math".
Flipping the coin, however, if I run my signals via an analog/tube path before hitting digital I would think that my tracks would have some warmth as well. This was not mentioned per se in the article and perhaps should have.
Thanks, though!!!
HSG

[obscure object]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I'm a bit confused by your questions.

All are correct. Why would you need to go out of a really great low noise, Hi gain mixer into another that may not be as good?

You can do all of that totally inside the n12 with the exception of Surround MIXING.. It does monitor. Cubase 4 or Nuendo 4 do a great job of surround with multiple panners
separate surround effects panners, True surround audio path ..Blah, blah blah.

With Cubase4/ Nuedo 4 and the n12 you can do it all.

I think the core of these questions is whether it is possible to do multiple outboard processing on multiple tracks using the inserts? are there multiple D/A's on the N12?! If so, how many channels of D/A?

[electronglow]

1) send channels 1-8 out and back in via the inserts through an 8-channel analog hardware device

Just to avoid confusion (and I'm probably the one who's confused here), but is it really possible to do the above, i.e. send out 8 DAW tracks simultaneously on separate analogue outputs?

Looking at the n12 block diagram, it appears that the channel sends can output head amp signals only, not D/A converted DAW signals. I guess by putting the n12 in surround mode you can have 6 analogue outs, add the two AUX channels and you have 8. But in 5.1 mode you don't get the straight signal, as bass management filtering is active. Or is there a way to disable bass management in 5.1 mode?

Originally Posted by homestudioguy

Well, I just read an article about "summing" in Recording Magazine that suggests that running a digital mix into an analog device then back into digital will add some "warmth" to the project and after looking at the rear panel of the n12 it appeared to me that it could be done so I was just "double checking my math".

I think analogue summing is a bit over hyped at the moment. Even experts such as Bob Katz maintain that it's not the summing process that sweetens the sound, it's the fact that you add tiny bits of distortion to individual tracks. As you say, running your signals through tube gear, tape emulation, or similar while tracking (which is where the n12's channel sends/returns come in handy) will do the same thing. In other words, I wouldn't worry about whether analogue summing with the n12 is possible or not.

-joachim

[Geosync]

First, a correction, sorry I have a lot on my plate.
Homestudioguy: The insert outs are analog I forgot to make an exception to that one, that’s why I numbered your points.

I was installing Cubase AI, Cubase Studio 4, Cubase 4 and DP 5 on 5 Macs while trying to answer the forum. [That’s all I can talk about ;) ] Thanks to electronglow for the catch..


The n12/8 does not SOUND like a digital mixer (not even our really high priced award winning ones). It's different.
I know you guys are probably sick of me saying it over and over. But it's true.
I'm sorry that there are not more n12/8s for you to hear. But
if you can read an article and take it to heart, please trust someone that checks the facts before a review is published. That's one of the hats we product managers wear.
So you may not need that warming. But every one likes to combine sounds and equipment. That is the true meaning of "mixing".
Digital mixers that don’t have analog inserts seem a bit limited, Even “arrogant”.
You should have freedom to “Mix” anything , anyway you want. Again it’s aut-O-mation vs. N-tegration. It’s a good way to distinguish
between our O series and our N series.,
Hope I didn’t farther confuse by my taking so long to get back.

The n series is gaining popularity as a small, portable, warm sounding Preamp/Mixer/Interface with some users I respect. Some are even Grammy winners ☺

I think most of you are getting the concept, the routing,
What you can’t get from here is how it sounds. That’s your journey…

[Randall]

The Yammer Hammer is paid for and is going to be on the road to my front door this morning... might see it by Saturday

Kind of amusing how Yamaha has been a part of my life... Broke my leg on one when I was a kid.. played one for years... many other products along the way... now I'm using their recording gear. I think I should get a rebate

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Geosync

The n series is gaining popularity as a small, portable, warm sounding Preamp/Mixer/Interface with some users I respect. Some are even Grammy winners ☺

That's awesome George!

Is n Series production going to get more ramped up? I see that Sweetwater hasn't had any N12's in stock for weeks. I'd like to see one at my local GC too, but then my local GC is pretty weak in carrying good gear.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by soundrage

That's awesome George!

Is n Series production going to get more ramped up? I see that Sweetwater hasn't had any N12's in stock for weeks. I'd like to see one at my local GC too, but then my local GC is pretty weak in carrying good gear.

Production requests were already doubled but it takes a while before we see the results.

[pianonick9999]

Hey!
I am extremely excited about this mixer, but I am getting worried. Why is it on such backorder, to where online sites and guitar center, etc, are all taking forever to get it in. I called Yamaha, and they said the shipment at the end of January was by no means a large one.... so when can I hope to be getting this lovely mixer? And why is the Yamaha not shippin enough?

You have more exact info on dates and stuff by chance? please!

This mixer seems too good to be true and I want to start working with it!

[sirthought]

FYI... I continue to search for objective reviews of this. Nothing yet. How do the pres and converters compare to something like the RME FireFace 800? I know George and Soundrage's opinion. Now would like to hear from others who have a bit of experience hearing other equipment.

Came across videos of a workshop from just Monday of this week. It's Dimitri Metzeltin, a Yamaha product specialist, who was seen in the n-series videos on Yamaha Europe's website. But this is a bit more in-depth, as he goes through building a song with Groove Agent and Halion and even mixes it, all using the n12 and Cubase. Pretty cool.

It's in German. I speak some German, so I was able to follow it to a degree, but it would be nice to see something like this in English. *hint* I've seen the other videos, which are nice, but this seems really thorough.

For those who speak German, here are the links. Enjoy:
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3
Video 4
:)

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by pianonick9999

Hey!
I am extremely excited about this mixer, but I am getting worried. Why is it on such backorder, to where online sites and guitar center, etc, are all taking forever to get it in. I called Yamaha, and they said the shipment at the end of January was by no means a large one.... so when can I hope to be getting this lovely mixer? And why is the Yamaha not shippin enough?

You have more exact info on dates and stuff by chance? please!

This mixer seems too good to be true and I want to start working with it!

Right now I found several online retailers that have N12's in stock so do a google search and get your order in. American Musical has them and I've done a lot of business with them.

My theory is since Yamaha has not done magazine advertising etc they might be trying out the market to see how strong the demand. If it's there maybe they will ramp up. But that's just my dumb theory.

[DaveTherrien]

Hi all

Well, I received my Yamaha N12 from zZounds today (it came in just 3 days!). A really nice package. We just had a practice with 7 people and, after messing with settings for a while we had a very productive practice. It sounds great!

I managed to figure out most of the mixer and audio part, but I ran into my first problem with the integration with Cubase 4 AI.

In Cubase, when I click the play or record button, I see the appropriate LEDs light up, but I can't seem to have it work the other way. I can't push a button on the N12 and have it affect Cubase.

Any ideas? I am running Cubase on a Dell Laptop (2GB mem, 2.6GHz Dual Core, onboard firewire (seems to be a noname version).

BTW - this is a great forum that I've learned a lot from !
Dave

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by DaveTherrien

In Cubase, when I click the play or record button, I see the appropriate LEDs light up, but I can't seem to have it work the other way. I can't push a button on the N12 and have it affect Cubase.

Great to hear you've got it up and working. More setup info please.

What work mode is selected on the n12? I think it should be "ST MIX."

Did you use the n12 template file in Cubase? Are you getting levels?

Does your n12 show the "Cubase ready" light on?

[DaveTherrien]

Yipes - that was a fast response.

When I fire up Cubase, the Cubase light goes on on the N12. That's a good sign.

I select File - New Project from Cubase, and select Yamaha N12 Stereo Recording.

At this point, without doing anything else, I can't seem to make the ST-MIX switch light up by pressing it. Is that supposed to be the way it works ? All of the track control and transport controls are not working from the N12. I can't make the metronome work. THere must be something I'm not doing right.

How do I check levels in Cubase ?

If anyone has a basic series of steps that works, that might be helpful.

Thanks

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by DaveTherrien

Yipes - that was a fast response.

When I fire up Cubase, the Cubase light goes on on the N12. That's a good sign.

I select File - New Project from Cubase, and select Yamaha N12 Stereo Recording.

At this point, without doing anything else, I can't seem to make the ST-MIX switch light up by pressing it. Is that supposed to be the way it works ? All of the track control and transport controls are not working from the N12. I can't make the metronome work. THere must be something I'm not doing right.

How do I check levels in Cubase ?

If anyone has a basic series of steps that works, that might be helpful.

Thanks

I've seen this happen before. It was a funky FW card.
Before replacing the card Try removing the driver and reinstalling it.

This step is VERY IMPORTANT...

1 make sure no FW or MIDI devices are connected.
Connect the n12 but NO POWER
Install driver
Restart the computer
NOW turn on the n12 power

Maybe that will work

Many of us fail to to it EXACTLY that way and it can cause your symptoms.
If no luck,
714 522-9000 the guys will get you going or you will need another FW interface.

[pianonick9999]

Hey,
super basic question I am sure, but I actually did not see it covered in these words in the forum....

I can record many "simultaneous" (up to 12 or something) tracks at once correct?

So I could record a vocal, guitar, bass, and say a keyboard, ALL AT ONCE to the computer and then be able to go back and mix volumes/eq/etc and all the fun stuff later?

Basically I am making sure you don't have to record one track at a time.
I could record 3 or 4 folks at once, and then go back and mix later with 3 or 4 separate tracks that were all recorded simultaneously earlier?

:-)
Thanks for this forum, great stuff.

[recordings]

Originally Posted by pianonick9999

Hey,
super basic question I am sure, but I actually did not see it covered in these words in the forum....

I can record many "simultaneous" (up to 12 or something) tracks at once correct?

So I could record a vocal, guitar, bass, and say a keyboard, ALL AT ONCE to the computer and then be able to go back and mix volumes/eq/etc and all the fun stuff later?

Basically I am making sure you don't have to record one track at a time.
I could record 3 or 4 folks at once, and then go back and mix later with 3 or 4 separate tracks that were all recorded simultaneously earlier?

:-)
Thanks for this forum, great stuff.

Absolutely you can. You just select a different channel/bus for each track on which you wish to record and off you go.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Randall

I see from another website the N12 uses firewire 1394B 800 ... the question I have is probably a stupid one but for you guys who are using this already maybe you can give me a tip or 2..

I need to run a 30 foot length of firewire to get this into my workstation...

at 30 feet will I need or should I be looking at a repeater?

1394store: Product: 'FireRepeater-800'

also.. my workstation is equipped only with 1394A.. so tell me a great reliable card that will run the N12 flawlessly.

How many pin firewire does the N12 accept?

Thanks guys

I have no idea about that repeater thing.

This is the card I got and Win XP automatically installed a driver for it. It was painless.
Newegg.com - SIIG 3-port 1394 (FireWire) PCI adapter Model NN-400012-S8 - Retail

[electronglow]

Originally Posted by Randall

I need to run a 30 foot length of firewire to get this into my workstation... at 30 feet will I need or should I be looking at a repeater?

At 30 feet (10 m) you shouldn't need a repeater, but it might be a good idea to get a high quality screened cable. The 1394 connectors on the n12 are of the 6-pin type.

Edit: The maximum recommended length of firewire cables is actually 4.5 m or 13.5 ft.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Randall

Thats a 400MBS card... the N12 will take advantage an 800 MBS transfer speed.. unless I'm reading misinformation

Interesting, would that be a lot better?

[electronglow]

Checked the Firewire spec -- the maximum recommended cable length is actually 4.5 m (13.5 ft), so for 30 ft you might actually need that repeater ... sorry about my previous reply.

As for using a 1394b port, according to some sources Windows XP with SPack2 forces the speed down to only 100 Mbps. However, a patch should enable you to achieve the full 800 Mbps bandwidth. Look here:

Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2

Seems like some amount of tweaking would be required there.
I think I'll stick with 1394a.

[Randall]

Originally Posted by electronglow

Checked the Firewire spec -- the maximum recommended cable length is actually 4.5 m (13.5 ft), so for 30 ft you might actually need that repeater ... sorry about my previous reply.

As for using a 1394b port, according to some sources Windows XP with SPack2 forces the speed down to only 100 Mbps. However, a patch should enable you to achieve the full 800 Mbps bandwidth. Look here:

Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2

Seems like some amount of tweaking would be required there.
I think I'll stick with 1394a.

I hadn't planned on installing SP2... but let me do some research.. story of my life ... thanks for your assistance

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Randall

Thats a 400MBS card... the N12 will take advantage an 800 MBS transfer speed.. unless I'm reading misinformation

Randall,

where did you find the info about the 800 speed?