Yamaha n Series

[homestudioguy]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I'm a bit confused by your questions.
All are correct. Why would you need to go out of a really great low noise, Hi gain mixer into another that may not be as good?
You can do all of that totally inside the n12 with the exception of Surround MIXING.. It does monitor. Cubase 4 or Nuendo 4 do a great job of surround with multiple panners separate surround effects panners, True surround audio path ..Blah, blah blah.
With Cubase4/ Nuedo 4 and the n12 you can do it all.

Well, I just read an article about "summing" in Recording Magazine that suggests that running a digital mix into an analog device then back into digital will add some "warmth" to the project and after looking at the rear panel of the n12 it appeared to me that it could be done so I was just "double checking my math".
Flipping the coin, however, if I run my signals via an analog/tube path before hitting digital I would think that my tracks would have some warmth as well. This was not mentioned per se in the article and perhaps should have.
Thanks, though!!!
HSG

[obscure object]

Originally Posted by Geosync

I'm a bit confused by your questions.

All are correct. Why would you need to go out of a really great low noise, Hi gain mixer into another that may not be as good?

You can do all of that totally inside the n12 with the exception of Surround MIXING.. It does monitor. Cubase 4 or Nuendo 4 do a great job of surround with multiple panners
separate surround effects panners, True surround audio path ..Blah, blah blah.

With Cubase4/ Nuedo 4 and the n12 you can do it all.

I think the core of these questions is whether it is possible to do multiple outboard processing on multiple tracks using the inserts? are there multiple D/A's on the N12?! If so, how many channels of D/A?

[electronglow]

1) send channels 1-8 out and back in via the inserts through an 8-channel analog hardware device

Just to avoid confusion (and I'm probably the one who's confused here), but is it really possible to do the above, i.e. send out 8 DAW tracks simultaneously on separate analogue outputs?

Looking at the n12 block diagram, it appears that the channel sends can output head amp signals only, not D/A converted DAW signals. I guess by putting the n12 in surround mode you can have 6 analogue outs, add the two AUX channels and you have 8. But in 5.1 mode you don't get the straight signal, as bass management filtering is active. Or is there a way to disable bass management in 5.1 mode?

Originally Posted by homestudioguy

Well, I just read an article about "summing" in Recording Magazine that suggests that running a digital mix into an analog device then back into digital will add some "warmth" to the project and after looking at the rear panel of the n12 it appeared to me that it could be done so I was just "double checking my math".

I think analogue summing is a bit over hyped at the moment. Even experts such as Bob Katz maintain that it's not the summing process that sweetens the sound, it's the fact that you add tiny bits of distortion to individual tracks. As you say, running your signals through tube gear, tape emulation, or similar while tracking (which is where the n12's channel sends/returns come in handy) will do the same thing. In other words, I wouldn't worry about whether analogue summing with the n12 is possible or not.

-joachim

[Geosync]

First, a correction, sorry I have a lot on my plate.
Homestudioguy: The insert outs are analog I forgot to make an exception to that one, that’s why I numbered your points.

I was installing Cubase AI, Cubase Studio 4, Cubase 4 and DP 5 on 5 Macs while trying to answer the forum. [That’s all I can talk about ] Thanks to electronglow for the catch..


The n12/8 does not SOUND like a digital mixer (not even our really high priced award winning ones). It's different.
I know you guys are probably sick of me saying it over and over. But it's true.
I'm sorry that there are not more n12/8s for you to hear. But
if you can read an article and take it to heart, please trust someone that checks the facts before a review is published. That's one of the hats we product managers wear.
So you may not need that warming. But every one likes to combine sounds and equipment. That is the true meaning of "mixing".
Digital mixers that don’t have analog inserts seem a bit limited, Even “arrogant”.
You should have freedom to “Mix” anything , anyway you want. Again it’s aut-O-mation vs. N-tegration. It’s a good way to distinguish
between our O series and our N series.,
Hope I didn’t farther confuse by my taking so long to get back.

The n series is gaining popularity as a small, portable, warm sounding Preamp/Mixer/Interface with some users I respect. Some are even Grammy winners ☺

I think most of you are getting the concept, the routing,
What you can’t get from here is how it sounds. That’s your journey…

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Geosync

The n series is gaining popularity as a small, portable, warm sounding Preamp/Mixer/Interface with some users I respect. Some are even Grammy winners ☺

That's awesome George!

Is n Series production going to get more ramped up? I see that Sweetwater hasn't had any N12's in stock for weeks. I'd like to see one at my local GC too, but then my local GC is pretty weak in carrying good gear.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by soundrage

That's awesome George!

Is n Series production going to get more ramped up? I see that Sweetwater hasn't had any N12's in stock for weeks. I'd like to see one at my local GC too, but then my local GC is pretty weak in carrying good gear.

Production requests were already doubled but it takes a while before we see the results.

[pianonick9999]

Hey!
I am extremely excited about this mixer, but I am getting worried. Why is it on such backorder, to where online sites and guitar center, etc, are all taking forever to get it in. I called Yamaha, and they said the shipment at the end of January was by no means a large one.... so when can I hope to be getting this lovely mixer? And why is the Yamaha not shippin enough?

You have more exact info on dates and stuff by chance? please!

This mixer seems too good to be true and I want to start working with it!

[sirthought]

FYI... I continue to search for objective reviews of this. Nothing yet. How do the pres and converters compare to something like the RME FireFace 800? I know George and Soundrage's opinion. Now would like to hear from others who have a bit of experience hearing other equipment.

Came across videos of a workshop from just Monday of this week. It's Dimitri Metzeltin, a Yamaha product specialist, who was seen in the n-series videos on Yamaha Europe's website. But this is a bit more in-depth, as he goes through building a song with Groove Agent and Halion and even mixes it, all using the n12 and Cubase. Pretty cool.

It's in German. I speak some German, so I was able to follow it to a degree, but it would be nice to see something like this in English. *hint* I've seen the other videos, which are nice, but this seems really thorough.

For those who speak German, here are the links. Enjoy:
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3
Video 4

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by pianonick9999

Hey!
I am extremely excited about this mixer, but I am getting worried. Why is it on such backorder, to where online sites and guitar center, etc, are all taking forever to get it in. I called Yamaha, and they said the shipment at the end of January was by no means a large one.... so when can I hope to be getting this lovely mixer? And why is the Yamaha not shippin enough?

You have more exact info on dates and stuff by chance? please!

This mixer seems too good to be true and I want to start working with it!

Right now I found several online retailers that have N12's in stock so do a google search and get your order in. American Musical has them and I've done a lot of business with them.

My theory is since Yamaha has not done magazine advertising etc they might be trying out the market to see how strong the demand. If it's there maybe they will ramp up. But that's just my dumb theory.

[DaveTherrien]

Hi all

Well, I received my Yamaha N12 from zZounds today (it came in just 3 days!). A really nice package. We just had a practice with 7 people and, after messing with settings for a while we had a very productive practice. It sounds great!

I managed to figure out most of the mixer and audio part, but I ran into my first problem with the integration with Cubase 4 AI.

In Cubase, when I click the play or record button, I see the appropriate LEDs light up, but I can't seem to have it work the other way. I can't push a button on the N12 and have it affect Cubase.

Any ideas? I am running Cubase on a Dell Laptop (2GB mem, 2.6GHz Dual Core, onboard firewire (seems to be a noname version).

BTW - this is a great forum that I've learned a lot from !
Dave

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by DaveTherrien

In Cubase, when I click the play or record button, I see the appropriate LEDs light up, but I can't seem to have it work the other way. I can't push a button on the N12 and have it affect Cubase.

Great to hear you've got it up and working. More setup info please.

What work mode is selected on the n12? I think it should be "ST MIX."

Did you use the n12 template file in Cubase? Are you getting levels?

Does your n12 show the "Cubase ready" light on?

[DaveTherrien]

Yipes - that was a fast response.

When I fire up Cubase, the Cubase light goes on on the N12. That's a good sign.

I select File - New Project from Cubase, and select Yamaha N12 Stereo Recording.

At this point, without doing anything else, I can't seem to make the ST-MIX switch light up by pressing it. Is that supposed to be the way it works ? All of the track control and transport controls are not working from the N12. I can't make the metronome work. THere must be something I'm not doing right.

How do I check levels in Cubase ?

If anyone has a basic series of steps that works, that might be helpful.

Thanks

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by DaveTherrien

Yipes - that was a fast response.

When I fire up Cubase, the Cubase light goes on on the N12. That's a good sign.

I select File - New Project from Cubase, and select Yamaha N12 Stereo Recording.

At this point, without doing anything else, I can't seem to make the ST-MIX switch light up by pressing it. Is that supposed to be the way it works ? All of the track control and transport controls are not working from the N12. I can't make the metronome work. THere must be something I'm not doing right.

How do I check levels in Cubase ?

If anyone has a basic series of steps that works, that might be helpful.

Thanks

I've seen this happen before. It was a funky FW card.
Before replacing the card Try removing the driver and reinstalling it.

This step is VERY IMPORTANT...

1 make sure no FW or MIDI devices are connected.
Connect the n12 but NO POWER
Install driver
Restart the computer
NOW turn on the n12 power

Maybe that will work

Many of us fail to to it EXACTLY that way and it can cause your symptoms.
If no luck,
714 522-9000 the guys will get you going or you will need another FW interface.

[pianonick9999]

Hey,
super basic question I am sure, but I actually did not see it covered in these words in the forum....

I can record many "simultaneous" (up to 12 or something) tracks at once correct?

So I could record a vocal, guitar, bass, and say a keyboard, ALL AT ONCE to the computer and then be able to go back and mix volumes/eq/etc and all the fun stuff later?

Basically I am making sure you don't have to record one track at a time.
I could record 3 or 4 folks at once, and then go back and mix later with 3 or 4 separate tracks that were all recorded simultaneously earlier?

:-)
Thanks for this forum, great stuff.

[recordings]

Originally Posted by pianonick9999

Hey,
super basic question I am sure, but I actually did not see it covered in these words in the forum....

I can record many "simultaneous" (up to 12 or something) tracks at once correct?

So I could record a vocal, guitar, bass, and say a keyboard, ALL AT ONCE to the computer and then be able to go back and mix volumes/eq/etc and all the fun stuff later?

Basically I am making sure you don't have to record one track at a time.
I could record 3 or 4 folks at once, and then go back and mix later with 3 or 4 separate tracks that were all recorded simultaneously earlier?

:-)
Thanks for this forum, great stuff.

Absolutely you can. You just select a different channel/bus for each track on which you wish to record and off you go.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Randall

I see from another website the N12 uses firewire 1394B 800 ... the question I have is probably a stupid one but for you guys who are using this already maybe you can give me a tip or 2..

I need to run a 30 foot length of firewire to get this into my workstation...

at 30 feet will I need or should I be looking at a repeater?

1394store: Product: 'FireRepeater-800'

also.. my workstation is equipped only with 1394A.. so tell me a great reliable card that will run the N12 flawlessly.

How many pin firewire does the N12 accept?

Thanks guys

I have no idea about that repeater thing.

This is the card I got and Win XP automatically installed a driver for it. It was painless.
Newegg.com - SIIG 3-port 1394 (FireWire) PCI adapter Model NN-400012-S8 - Retail

[electronglow]

Originally Posted by Randall

I need to run a 30 foot length of firewire to get this into my workstation... at 30 feet will I need or should I be looking at a repeater?

At 30 feet (10 m) you shouldn't need a repeater, but it might be a good idea to get a high quality screened cable. The 1394 connectors on the n12 are of the 6-pin type.

Edit: The maximum recommended length of firewire cables is actually 4.5 m or 13.5 ft.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Randall

Thats a 400MBS card... the N12 will take advantage an 800 MBS transfer speed.. unless I'm reading misinformation

Interesting, would that be a lot better?

[electronglow]

Checked the Firewire spec -- the maximum recommended cable length is actually 4.5 m (13.5 ft), so for 30 ft you might actually need that repeater ... sorry about my previous reply.

As for using a 1394b port, according to some sources Windows XP with SPack2 forces the speed down to only 100 Mbps. However, a patch should enable you to achieve the full 800 Mbps bandwidth. Look here:

Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2

Seems like some amount of tweaking would be required there.
I think I'll stick with 1394a.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Randall

Thats a 400MBS card... the N12 will take advantage an 800 MBS transfer speed.. unless I'm reading misinformation

Randall,

where did you find the info about the 800 speed?

[Geosync]

BEWARE !!

We only Suggest cards such as the Adaptec 4300

In other words, No mixed 800/400 FW or FW and USB
They have caused many people much frustration.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just VERY VERY Risky..

[Geosync]

Leopard Driver is HERE

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by Randall

I'm looking at this little charmer... unfortunately I can't find any info about the chip set... drivers are already in XP and it has great reviews. what do you think guys? has 6 pins as well.

Newegg.com - SYBA PCI 32-bit Firewire 1394b Controller Card Model SD-FWB-32B - Retail

I don't know if you read all of the reviews, but one person said they a hard time getting their Motu device to work and they didn't think the chip set is TI. Someone also said it didn't have the "Windows Compatible" sticker, although it did work you have to go through some extra steps.

I don't know how you find out what the chip set is.

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by Geosync

Leopard Driver is HERE

Does this mean I need to get a Mac now?

I see the extensions for Steinberg have been updated too but they got the wrong date...June 2008? No biggie.

[sirthought]

In Cincinnati I've called Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Buddy Rogers, and ICB Audio.
No one stocks these in their show room.

I'd need to special order it, which I'd really rather test something before I buy.

Isn't Yamaha pushing the n-series to retailers? Can't sell many if they aren't showing it off. Does anyone know of a store in Ohio that actually has one?

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by sirthought

In Cincinnati I've called Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Buddy Rogers, and ICB Audio.
No one stocks these in their show room.

I'd need to special order it, which I'd really rather test something before I buy.

Isn't Yamaha pushing the n-series to retailers? Can't sell many if they aren't showing it off. Does anyone know of a store in Ohio that actually has one?

That is strange,

you can get them at GC online.
Yamaha n12 FireWire Digital Mixing Studio and more Unpowered at GuitarCenter.com.

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by Randall

I trusted that a Yamaha rep wouldn't be here telling us great things about the N12 if they weren't true... everybody here who has one seems to be in agreement... anytime everybody on GS agrees on something I take it as a damned good sign

I never got to test drive one either

Now if I could get to the bottom of the 1394B mystery.. ho-hum

Randall check your PM

[ricfoxx]

Recv'd my N12 today installed cubase ai4 and downloaded the newest driver for OSX (Im running 10.4.11 on a Intel Macbook) that was released today on yamaha's website. Computer recognized N12 and did its thing. When I opened up Cubase it did not recognize the N12 and I had to go in and select the Mlan driver. At that time the N12 could be used but not for the advanced integration (the little light on the N12 did not light up.) Did I do something wrong? What can I do to get this up and running with the advanced integration?

Thanks in advance...Ric

[Geosync]

Originally Posted by ricfoxx

Recv'd my N12 today installed cubase ai4 and downloaded the newest driver for OSX (Im running 10.4.11 on a Intel Macbook) that was released today on yamaha's website. Computer recognized N12 and did its thing. When I opened up Cubase it did not recognize the N12 and I had to go in and select the Mlan driver. At that time the N12 could be used but not for the advanced integration (the little light on the N12 did not light up.) Did I do something wrong? What can I do to get this up and running with the advanced integration?

Thanks in advance...Ric

Did you download the Extensions for Steinberg DAW V1.2.1

How do you like the way it sounds?

[btrox]

Originally Posted by ricfoxx

When I opened up Cubase it did not recognize the N12 and I had to go in and select the Mlan driver. At that time the N12 could be used but not for the advanced integration (the little light on the N12 did not light up.) Did I do something wrong?

I don't know your setup and assuming all your cubase settings are correct, the major obstruction i encountered was with multiple fw devices. ultimately, i found almost everything in my fw chain bothered the n12 to the point that i took out a fw pci card and cannot use my LaCie fw 250 hd directly, however, i can use it if it's daisychained to the LaCie dvd r/w and that's connected directly to the n12- go figure.... at any rate, that's my experience and it's worth the reconfiguring (to me) because the n12 is great, but i would unplug everything fw and try just the n12 and computer. if that works, then....

hope that helps