Animal - vocals

[Hysteria]

Hi Folks

Does anyone have any tips on how to achieve the well-defined throaty vocal sound as used on Def leppard's Animal.

It can be heard clearly on the first verse:

"A wild ride, over stony ground
Such a lust for life, the circus comes to town
We are the hungry ones, on a lightning raid, etc..."

Obviously it needs to be sung in a certain way but it seems like some technique (lots of eq, I guess) has been employed to bring out the effect to a point where it is very noticeable and very clear.

Being a big fan of Leppard, Mutt and Mike Shipley, I have read much on these recordings but I've not seen the technique of how this effect was achieved described in any detail. I'd be willing to bet it's eq but how would you even know where to start

It would be fantastic if Mike Shipley could spare a few minutes to shed any light on how he achieved it with Leppard but I'm also as interested in how to get something similar ITB so if anyone else has had a go, what did you do?

If it's eq, then what kind of frequencies are we talking about? What are boosted and what are cut? Does it require automation for every syllable.

It seems that it is common in many rock recordings nowadays (Nickelback, etc.) to bring out that husky (for want of a better word) aspect of a male vocal and the likes of TC's Character plug-in seems to go some way to achieve this but there is a big difference between all of these and the Leppard vocal.

Would really appreciate some thoughts on this.

[WidgetNinja]

It seems to me this is just three things:

Dry room: so it can be hammered without distancing the sound.
Proximity effect: "making out with the mic" distance.
Throat manipulation and tightening of the diaphragm/abdominal wall to bring the resonance lower towards the chest. Joe's comfort voice is much higher in the throat.

It just doesn't sounded particularly affected to my ears.

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by WidgetNinja

It seems to me this is just three things:

Dry room: so it can be hammered without distancing the sound.
Proximity effect: "making out with the mic" distance.
Throat manipulation and tightening of the diaphragm/abdominal wall to bring the resonance lower towards the chest. Joe's comfort voice is much higher in the throat.

Not to mention a pack or two of smokes, and a bottle of whiskey

Z.

[84K]

Originally Posted by WidgetNinja

It seems to me this is just three things:

Dry room: so it can be hammered without distancing the sound.
Proximity effect: "making out with the mic" distance.
Throat manipulation and tightening of the diaphragm/abdominal wall to bring the resonance lower towards the chest. Joe's comfort voice is much higher in the throat.

It just doesn't sounded particularly affected to my ears.

WOW. I thought it was 'only rock n roll.'

My advise.... Grab your d**k and kick out the jams.

All seriousness, great band, great singer. Born with 90% of it, developed the rest with practice and above mentioned aids.

[emkay]

Originally Posted by 84K

WOW. I thought it was 'only rock n roll.'

My advise.... Grab your d**k and kick out the jams.

All seriousness, great band, great singer. Born with 90% of it, developed the rest with practice and above mentioned aids.

++1

[AMIEL]

Well I really do not think in the verses you mention I can find that "Distinct Def Leppard sound" I find Joe Elliot style...that is DL sound... besides of the engineering .

Basicly in all DL vocals from lead to Backgrounds V , they have a very perticular way of singing.
The BGV are being sung with more air/raspy that actual full vocal sounds, then they have that "Nice boys high pitch harmonies" .....they roll off some low end and certain mid freqs and boost some highs...then you can add a good chorus, reverb and delay.... of course compression to make it tighter!

the most important part is the way how they sing...the tone and intention...if you have that with the proper EQ and Effx you can get that DL sound.....ah and have to be perfect as Mutt Lange does......

double each part of the BGV many times......

[84K]

ever notice how similar the BGV voices sound in ACDC, DL, and Shania's album sound? HMMM. I bet Mutt can sing a little himself

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by 84K

ever notice how similar the BGV voices sound in ACDC, DL, and Shania's album sound? HMMM. I bet Mutt can sing a little himself

Yes Many times Mutt lange sing BGVs !!!!

[Hysteria]

Hmm, thanks guys...

I think I've not been able to put across quite what I wanted in my question...

Yeah, obviously Joe sang it in a certain way but there's more to it than that if you listen carefully to that verse. Something very specific has been done to bring out the raspy effect to an unnatural (but good!) extent.

I'm pretty sure automated eq was used by Mutt & Mike on the vocals but I'm not sure what would be a good starting point, I mean where do you start with EQing every word or every syllable

I know that analogue tape helped contribute to the BVs with the many, many layers of backing vocals mixed down eq'd, mixed, eq'd etc.

So, the lead vocal, I'm not convinced it was just down to lots of close mic-work, compression, verb, chorus and delay like many of their contemporaries in the day...I say that having read everything I can get hold of (to this point) on DL's recordings including Shipshape's great posts sometime back

I wonder if Shipshape is still around and would mind commenting?

[mjlaudio]

I dont know if what you are talking about is what i am hearing but I have been inquiring about this for a while here too......if you watch the classic albums for hysteria there is a moment when joe elliot solos a dbl track that has an obvious effect that makes him sound super raspy....kinda like a vocoder. You can also hear a similar effect on nickelbacks photograph song.

still looking for the answer im sure its not something those in the know are looking to disclose. I guess this is part of the fun of engineering finding your own way to get whats in your head out the speakers

[Hysteria]

Originally Posted by mjlaudio

I dont know if what you are talking about is what i am hearing but I have been inquiring about this for a while here too......if you watch the classic albums for hysteria there is a moment when joe elliot solos a dbl track that has an obvious effect that makes him sound super raspy....kinda like a vocoder. You can also hear a similar effect on nickelbacks photograph song.

still looking for the answer im sure its not something those in the know are looking to disclose. I guess this is part of the fun of engineering finding your own way to get whats in your head out the speakers

Ahhh, I'm glad someone knows what I'm on about

Yeah raspy is the thing!

I smiled when I heard Nickelback's Photograph especially when I found out the Mike Shipley mixed it. Best song on that album imho

[shipshape]

There was most definately a particular way Joe's vocals were done , when he sang , there's no vocoder or whatever you thought ...... its a particular "style " Mutt has him sing , a particular way of making Joe over exagerate the way he would use his mouth as he sings , it's pretty hard to explain , but by exagerating the way you shape the words with your mouth it gives a certain sound , there was much eq'ing also , but a lot comes from almost being animated in the way you "mouth the words. It may sound odd ,but works for a lot of singers Mutt works with to get "that " sound , and yes Mutt sings backgrounds on all the records he makes , he has a very distinct character when tracked up.
Peace Shipshape
We also use a bunch of 'FX" on the voice very subtly to give a sound also.
The EQ is done word by word in a lot of cases to also get the effect , pulling out "honky frequencies etc" .. slightly tedious process , but worked for what we wanted .. thanks to the SSL automated EQ back in the Hysteria days .. now done with "other " hardware and software toys

[mjlaudio]

thanks mike for the response

always raising the bar. love your work

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by shipshape

There was most definately a particular way Joe's vocals were done , when he sang , there's no vocoder or whatever you thought ...... its a particular "style " Mutt has him sing , a particular way of making Joe over exagerate the way he would use his mouth as he sings , it's pretty hard to explain , but by exagerating the way you shape the words with your mouth it gives a certain sound , there was much eq'ing also , but a lot comes from almost being animated in the way you "mouth the words. It may sound odd ,but works for a lot of singers Mutt works with to get "that " sound , and yes Mut sings backgrounds on all the records he makes , he has a very distinct character when tracked up.
Peace Shipshape
We also use a bunch of 'FX" on the voice very subtly to give a sound also.

Thanks Mike!

Yeah!! is what I was saying..the way they sing is how starts the DL sound and their trademark...then obviously Mike put his touch on it!

[novsam]

Yea... I think the sound is mostly a result of Joe's singing. On the "Classic Albums" DVD Joe and Phil have his vocal takes from Pour Some Sugar On Me soloed and they comment on how painful the takes sound, and how much Mutt was forcing Joe to strain for every note.

Aside from that, I think Joe's vocals are actually quite heavily compressed for the era, and off course EQ comes into play.

[Hysteria]

Originally Posted by shipshape

There was most definately a particular way Joe's vocals were done , when he sang , there's no vocoder or whatever you thought ...... its a particular "style " Mutt has him sing , a particular way of making Joe over exagerate the way he would use his mouth as he sings , it's pretty hard to explain , but by exagerating the way you shape the words with your mouth it gives a certain sound , there was much eq'ing also , but a lot comes from almost being animated in the way you "mouth the words. It may sound odd ,but works for a lot of singers Mutt works with to get "that " sound , and yes Mutt sings backgrounds on all the records he makes , he has a very distinct character when tracked up.
Peace Shipshape
We also use a bunch of 'FX" on the voice very subtly to give a sound also.
The EQ is done word by word in a lot of cases to also get the effect , pulling out "honky frequencies etc" .. slightly tedious process , but worked for what we wanted .. thanks to the SSL automated EQ back in the Hysteria days .. now done with "other " hardware and software toys

Mike, thank you so much for sparing the time to reply, I really appreciate it.

Yes of course I understood the overall sound was down to Joe's voice, way he sung it etc, but it was really about how you brought that out to the extent you did.

I don't suppose you'd be willing to expand upon the EQing process just a little more? I think I recall you saying that you had sat with a graphic in your lap at one point but I guess that was on something else...or maybe I'm making it up Would the EQ process just be some minor tweaks on a couple of bands per word or are we talking about multiple bands with high Qs all painstakingly changed each time?

Once again Mike, thanks a million thumbsup

Cheers

Simon