monitors and mics in amateur bedroom studio

[jagacki]

This is my first message with Gearslutz. I am going to create a amateur home studio in my spare bedroom. I have questions in two areas. 1) monitors – Are passive better than powered? The threads here seem to indicate most use passive monitors. The Tannoy comes up again and again as the passive monitor of choice. However, I don’t have a great deal to spend.
I was looking at purchasing a Tannoy 6.5 powered monitor (although Tannoy unpowered monitors seem to be preferred with users here). I was also looking at the Tascam VLX5 based on one of the earlier threads here and was mentioned as a good deal for the money. Once again this is a powered unit. The recording machine I have is a Tascam 2488 which has a built in amp for powering passive monitors (in fact, in the Tascam tutorial DVD the presenter is using Tannoy monitors powered through the recorder). I do have Phase Linear 200 and 400 amps and could power passive monitors through either of these. So in summary – passive or powered, which is better? What are some moderately priced recommendations or anyone’s thoughts on the monitors I’ve mentioned?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
2) microphones – I have used a Sennheisser 421 and a 425. Vocal presence on the 425 is amazing, but is also fine on the 421. So they both seem to do the job, but on acoustic guitar I think the sound could be more "accurate” than what the 421 does. That is why I was looking at condenser microphones. I was looking at a Shure KSM27. I was told that for the money it is an excellent condenser microphone. I will be recording vocal, acoustic and occasional piano, maybe some violin. I also read that this microphone is extremely sensitive and picks up everything, even from a distance. Will my spare bedroom have to be extremely soundproof to use this condenser microphone or condenser microphones in general? What is the durability of the Shure KSM27. One review I read was that it broke down several times and had to be sent back to Shure, even though the person claimed to be careful with it.

Lastly, I was told to record instruments first, then vocals. But it is so unnatural for me to be singing along in my head to an acoustic guitar. Does a unidirctional mike limit what's picked up by where it is pointed. I mean, could I point it towards my acousic and lightly sing at the same time and not have my voice picked up. It is probably a real dumb question, but I am a novice and would like to be able to sing lightly and play guitar an acoustic guitar track.
<o:p></o:p>

[guitarbth]

Active vs. Passive... I wouldnt say one's better than the other. There are definitely some cases where seperate amps and monitors is awesome but there are some great powered monitors out there. For bedroom stuff keep it simple and get a powered set.

Mics... The Sennheiser is a great dynamic and I think the KSM27 is the best $300 condenser mic out there. It would be an great all around, do anything mic. There are some new ones on ebay for even less.

Recording approach... Do what works for you. In your case, I'd say try to record a rough track of you playing AND singing if that's what gets a good performance. Then go back and overdub a guitar track and then do the vocal track on top of that. That way you've got the feel of the performace and your able to get good clean tracks. Then you can drop the rough track and hopefully you have a good feel. Overdub a second guitar and pan them slightly left and right.

Hope this helps...

[matt82aust]

with monitors i would say go active. the general consensus i get is that the amp's in powered monitors are normally matched pretty well with the speaker it is driving.

tannoys rock! at home i use the smaller 5a's and i would not trade them for anthing else, but to each his own ( especially with monitors )

[manthe]

I think that a lot more people would be able to recommend gear if you posted a relative budget.

These days there are SO MANY choices for home studios these days. Budget is the primary factor.

[Chrizcol]

Treat your room. Priority! Search forums.

[jagacki]

Originally Posted by guitarbth

Active vs. Passive... I wouldnt say one's better than the other. There are definitely some cases where seperate amps and monitors is awesome but there are some great powered monitors out there. For bedroom stuff keep it simple and get a powered set.

Mics... The Sennheiser is a great dynamic and I think the KSM27 is the best $300 condenser mic out there. It would be an great all around, do anything mic. There are some new ones on ebay for even less.

Recording approach... Do what works for you. In your case, I'd say try to record a rough track of you playing AND singing if that's what gets a good performance. Then go back and overdub a guitar track and then do the vocal track on top of that. That way you've got the feel of the performace and your able to get good clean tracks. Then you can drop the rough track and hopefully you have a good feel. Overdub a second guitar and pan them slightly left and right.

Hope this helps...

Thanks for responding! I really do like the Sennheisser 421, but the Shure KSM27 seems to be the way to go, especially with all the acoustic instruments I play. So many reviews I've read repeat how acousitc guitar and voice comes alive with the Shure. There indeed was one on e-bay for less with no carrying case. I'd also like the security of a 2-year guarantee by Shure, though. I may not need to get anything fixed, but who knows? As I said, some folks commented on having to send their mic in for repairs.

Getting powered monitor seems to make sense. I probably don't need an amplifier to power the speakers and take up additional space. I don't know how powerful the amp inside the Tascam 2488 is, so amped might be a sure solution. Do you have a suggestion of a "great powered monitor?" I'm looking to spend around 300 to 400 for a pair. Somewhere in that range. The Tascam's I mentioned were in the $300 price range. Tannoy's are mentioned alot, but they are also generally more expensive.

I really appreciate the tip on recording. Now I can feel a more free when I record something for voice and guitar. All your tips really did help. Thanks again.

[jagacki]

Originally Posted by manthe

I think that a lot more people would be able to recommend gear if you posted a relative budget.

These days there are SO MANY choices for home studios these days. Budget is the primary factor.

Thanks for mentioning budget. That surely would help on advice. My budget for a condenser mic tops out at around $300. It looks like the Shure KSM27 seems to be the best deal for that price thus far.

The monitors are at 300 to 400 dollars. I could possibly go to $500 (for a pair) if spending that much would make an appreciable difference, but that probably would be tops. Some people have written that powered monitors affect the quality of the mix on playback, that's why some prefer passive. On some I was told you can switch the amp off of a powered monitor and drive them as passive with a different, higher quality amped source. This is all probably getting into the finer points. I'm just really beginning.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

[jagacki]

Originally Posted by matt82aust

with monitors i would say go active. the general consensus i get is that the amp's in powered monitors are normally matched pretty well with the speaker it is driving.

tannoys rock! at home i use the smaller 5a's and i would not trade them for anthing else, but to each his own ( especially with monitors )

Thanks for responding on monitors - amped/passive. I'll check out Tannoy 5a's tomorrow on the net. I can see where this site can get addictive -- I've got to get some sleep! Take care.

[Chrizcol]

1. Treat your walls.
2. Save up longer for better gear. Its not worth it getting so-so gear that you cant even sell off later for better/more expensive gear.

Be patient. Spend this time reading books/forums on how you're going to use the gear.


6+ months ago I was in your position. Was about to buy lots of so-so gear just to have it straight away.
Waited.. spent the time studying....Was very tough holding back = Now I have fantastic gear! Very glad I did.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by jagacki

I am going to create a amateur home studio in my spare bedroom.

Listen to Chrizcol. Most people in your shoes need a treated room much more than they need yet more microphones and other gear. However, having at least one good condenser microphone, plus good loudspeakers, is important too.

Are passive better than powered?

There are many advantages of active monitors for the typical project studio, besides a simpler hookup with less pieces to carry if you ever do remotes:

Active speakers are typically bi-amped, which often yields a cleaner sound with less distortion. And bi-amping offers more ways to optimize the crossover performance because it uses active rather than passive components. Also, the power amps will be well matched to the speakers, they won't have a fan, and the wires from amp to speaker are shorter which improves damping. But to me the overwhelming advantage, as implemented in the Mackies anyway, is that the woofer cone's motion can be included within the power amp's feedback loop to reduce distortion by a significant amount.

--Ethan

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Chrizcol

1. Treat your walls.
2. Save up longer for better gear. Its not worth it getting so-so gear that you cant even sell off later for better/more expensive gear.

Be patient. Spend this time reading books/forums on how you're going to use the gear.


6+ months ago I was in your position. Was about to buy lots of so-so gear just to have it straight away.
Waited.. spent the time studying....Was very tough holding back = Now I have fantastic gear! Very glad I did.

+ a-million-billion-TRILLION!!

Take it from someone who did NOT hold back. I dropped a fair amount on so-so gear. Now I have a locker full of so-so gear that I have replaced 100%. I haven't been able to capitolize on ANY of it. The few pieces that I've attempted to sell off have sold for peanuts. Literally, maybe 20% to 25% of the purchase price!!

I've learned my lesson...the hard way. In the beginning, I really had no intentions of going commercial. You may never go commercial. But, regardless of whether I had or not, I became very frustrated and ultimately unhappy with the way my songs were sounding. This had everything to do with suspect gear and poor room treatment.

A lot of people here have said it, and it can't be emphasized enough...TREAT THE ROOM, and treat it right. Auralex has a free service that permits you to submit a drawing and description of your room. They will analyze it and send back a recommended treatment (using their products, of course...which are pretty good, if a bit overpriced!). Anyhow, this is a great starting point. Especially if you do not have a lot of knowledge about acoustic treatment.

From there, or in the interim, I recommend reading up on it and trying to understand it. There is a lot of DIY information out there (and on this site) for treating a room on the cheap.

My (original) room was a HUGE problem. Bad treatment! My monitors added to the problem. They were low cost. Typically, low cost monitors are very 'hyped' on a lot of frequencies. This plays havoc when trying to mix properly (especially in a poorly treated room!).

If you want to go with low cost monitors, I HIGHLY recommend scouring for a used pair of Yamaha NS-10Ms. They are discontinued, but are relentlessly honest and/or uncolored. A lot of people say, 'if you can get it to sound good on NS-10Ms, it'll sound good anywhere'. I tend to agree. I never owned any personally, but I know 2 people who do. I REALLY wish I had bought them initially. I've moved on now, but I might still pick up a pair as a second, reference set. They sell on ebay for US $500 to $700. A little over your budget, but I personally feel that your monitor budget is too low to allow yourself to even get any 'low-end gold'.

As for mics, well...there is a lot of great stuff out there for a lower budget. It is a very personal choice, especially in a personal studio. For me, I have to consider a much wider audience. My mic locker has a lot of things that I like a lot, but it also contains mics that are there to appease potential and existing customers. The Shure LDC that you mention is a great mic. I guess the real issue here is making sure it is great for what YOU intend to use it for. In other words, You could probably come up with 5 or 6 LDC mics in that price range that are all 'great', but they all sound different. So, it comes down to getting one that has the sound you're looking for.

Like most people, I can practically guarantee that you won't stop here! You'll continue to add mics to the locker and gear to the studio, in general. So, I would actually consider this when buying. Perhaps you could just go ahead and submit to it now that way you can make purchase decisions with the knowledge that you'll be "...getting the other one later"!