NS 10 mixng advice

[gusegruv]

just got my first pair of NS 10s and never had the chance to mix on them. can any one give me some advice?

[slipperman]

Originally Posted by gusegruv

just got my first pair of NS 10s and never had the chance to mix on them. can any one give me some advice?

Mix a dozen records on them.

You'll either sell them for a profit on ebay or never take them off the meter bridge.

Not being a wise-ass. Best advice I can offer.

Best regards,

SM.

[skopje]

just sell them. If you can't sell them, take them into the garden and use a sledgehammer on them......

I know this is a bit of a sharp post, but they were my worst ever musical purchase. I did learn a huge lesson though. If you ever here the term "These are industry standard" Just slap the person and walk on.

stephen

[heathen]

They are not that bad, great for getting small details in a mix worked out. Don't push em too hard or you'll be looking for new tweeters and just don't push too much bass in as the ns10's have little impact under about 80hz so if you can hear the bass in them it is probably enough.

[doug_hti]

and here we go......

follow slipperman's advice.
Put a good amp on them, because this is where some of the people that THINK they've tried them are falling short. Not only that, they are putting their own crappy mixes on them. I use a hafler at own studio, a mackie amp at another sound stage and I have a Bryston 4B after having a Perreaux Classic 200 on them. I like the Bryston the best by far with Kimber Speaker Cable.

From a working issue, the biggest issue you may run into is sorting out your bass....yet it's where I love them. If I can get a mix to slam on them and have loud, punchy, and clear bass frequencies.....and then be able to put the mix on another full range system with the bass sitting right, then the bottom end is probably going to rock, even though I use a JVC mini component system/boom box to check as well...but you will understand once you learn how to get bass on them without overloading full range systems....

I'm guessing that other people are going to say, "well I mix on XXXXX monitor that tells me EVERYTHING, I can hear every frequency."
That's great fine and dandy, except for the fact that 99% of the people listening to music don't have full range systems and I find that if you don't mix a part of your time on some band limited monitors, then you won't always have a realistic idea of how it's translating to the street....
As I'm sure you've read, NS10s also excel at sorting out delicate and dense mix levels in regards to track vs vox.

Listen to your mixes loud, listen to them quiet, they should sound right at any level.

If you don't like them at the end of the day, nobody has to keep talking you into liking them. It still boggles my mind why people hate them so bad in a way that they call you an idiot if you are in to them....but of those people that I've actually met outside of the ones on gearslutz, i have yet to hear their "amazing" mixes.

[planet red]

Mix with them at low volumes or your ears will get tired fast and you'll end up with super bright mixes. Part of the magic of them is monitoring very low in volume. You can immediately tell if your mix is out of wack.

They arent 'fun' speakers at all. Listen to a bunch of records on them. You'll get no enjoyment what so ever, but you'll hear a lot about how things are balanced and the space (or lack of space) between each instrument.

[absrec]

I love NS-10s. They are like a good friend. They don't tell you want to hear, they tell you what you NEED to hear.

Once you get used to the fact that they don't reproduce much below 80Hz or above 8k, they are an invaluable mixing tool. If you mix a lot of rock, it's all about the midrange anyway.

-Aaron

[stevep]

Originally Posted by doug_hti

and here we go......

follow slipperman's advice.
Put a good amp on them, because this is where some of the people that THINK they've tried them are falling short. Not only that, they are putting their own crappy mixes on them.

LoL ::))

just got my first pair of NS 10s and never had the chance to mix on them. can any one give me some advice?

I dont think anyone mixes the whole song on the 10s... I use them to check during the mix and often will switch into mono.

i switch between three different sounding sets of speakers

i listen to them at medium or quiet volume,..

The new ones dont need tissue


I never liked a hyped sounding amp for these things, i use the Adcom 545 its flat and cheep. (thats a whole other thread) after all... im wanting to know what the mix will sound like on a cheep set of home speakers

Just have fun with them and dont crank them to loud,.... drivers are expensive now days

[Fernando S.]

I use then just as an auxiliar speaker (sounds much better with bryston amps). Great to see levels and panning at low volume.
You need to learn how to mix on these. Is not a fun monitor. You can try a subwoofer working together, helps a lot.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Fernando S.

You can try a subwoofer working together, helps a lot.

Why would you use a sub with a monitor used to check for mids and to sound like a cheep home speaker ?

I know some do...... but thats what the big ones are for


.

[AlexLakis]

The best advice would be to hold onto your old speakers and keep them as mains (probably what you are planning to do anyway.) Just keep A/Bing as you go, especially when it comes time to mix vocals, leads, etc. It gets the lows out of the way so you can get a better idea of how they're sitting level-wise.

I've worked on several pairs with several different amps (most of the time, I wasn't sure what amp was being used.) I have mine on an Adcom GFA-535, which is pretty cheap compared to other amps many will recommend, but it gets the job done for me.

[Fernando S.]

Originally Posted by stevep

Why would you use a sub with a monitor used to check for mids and to sound like a cheep home speaker ?

I know some do...... but thats what the big ones are for


.

I think that subs helps NS10 sounds more frendly. i know, sometimes you have enought money to get another pair (biggers ones), but usually not.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Fernando S.

I think that subs helps NS10 sounds more frendly. i know, sometimes you have enought money to get another pair (biggers ones), but usually not.

There not supposed to be friendly

NS10s were never meant to be the only speakers in the control room

they do what they do and do it well,.. But there not mains, no mater how many sub woofers you add.


.

[gusegruv]

Thanks guys, yes Im keeping my Events to keep maingly mixing on and bounch back and forth between the NS 10s

Anyone ever heard of NS 20s?

What Kind of Sub can I get to mix with the NS 10s

The amp I have is a Stewart P or B 50 I think it is

[peat]

a few things ive found in my two years of solid mixing on nothing but ns-10's

you have to make them sound a little harsh and screechy for your high end to translate well

also
they have to have a sort of lacking low end
otherwise your mix will be slightly bass heavy

other than that i absolutely love ns 10's
ive used other monitors
tannoy 12inch dual concentrics (soffit mounted)
yamaha msp-7's (<<<very nice also)
and a few others

but i always feel 'safe' infront of the ns-10's
and i agree they are fantastic for getting levels and pans right
also getting things to sit together with eq and comp as well

but they arent really any golden tips for using them
imo, just those two things i said frist
screechy high end
not too much bass

[DontLetMeDrown]

First off, pick up a sub. Then adjust the sub so that it sounds like it's barely on. Next, listen to lots of your favorite albums. You should be ready to roll after that.

[O.F.F.]

Buy some decent mains and use them for what NS10 are good for: To check if your mix sounds ok on a crappy transistor radio.
Alternatively sell them and check your mixes by removing everything below 100Hz and add some excessive hi mid shelving eq.
The idea to run NS10s of a Bryston reminds me of a saying involving pearls and swine...

[Han]

Indeed NS10's need a good amp, listen to a good sounding CD on NS10's and you'll find out that even NS10's can sound great.

Check the low end on the mains and you're done. If it sounds good on NS10's it is good, period.

No need to bash the NS10, if you can't mix on them it's you, not the NS10.

[O.F.F.]

I can mix on NS10s just fine, its just that I really do not enjoy it one bit.
Frankly you can get a decent mix using almost any speaker as long as you are aware of its shortcomings but NS10s just have too many of them and become tiresome very, very quickly. And thats their main fault in my ears: They are the most fatiguing speaker I know of, one day of using those and I feel like I spent the day stacking palettes without a forklift.

[planet red]

When I'm mixing on 10's I'm more concerned that the mix sounds great..

When I mix on better sounding speakers I get way too concerned with individual sounds and not the overall mix. Like I'll get a huge guitar tone or drum sound or something, but wont hear how its stomping on other things and making your mix sound small. Flip on the 10's and hear how congested things are and its easy to rebalance everything so it still has power, but its redirected in a way that its not stomping on everything.

My mastering guy tells me the best mixes he usually gets are done on NS10's. His reasoning is that he can fix the top end if its dull or harsh, or fix the bottom if its too muddy or thin, but he cant do much if he doesnt get a clear midrange. 10's seem to be a magnifying glass for everything thats important.

Only problem is they sound terrible and hurt your ears.

[Han]

@O.F.F. No, not good, NS10's are very good at two things: letting you know how the overall balance is and showing mud in the low mids.

If you wanna enjoy listening to music, get some nice hi fi speakers, ya wanna make a mix, use NS10's or other decent monitors. NS10's with a sub don't sound that bad either.

It's love or hate, there's nothing in between.

[O.F.F.]

You're right Han: Love or hate there is nothing in between!
I hate them and stick to my active Tannoy 12" dual concentrics and Auratones.
All I can say is if it sounds good on the Auratones it sounds good everywhere and that without worrying about the health of my ears. As I mentioned in another thread: My hearing is overly sensitive at around 8k (by about +6dB referenced to 1k) and mixing on screechy speakers simply makes my ears bleed, hell many cds and all MP3 make them bleed too for some reason. Playing MP3s through NS10s is a hellish nightmare for me and after prolonged use NS10s leave a ringing in my ears, very much like you get from being exposed to slightly overdriven pa's. I now know that this ringing is directly related to the amount of distortion rather then volume per se as I can listen to my Tannoys at very high levels for a long time and never get the ringing (not that I'm making a habit of that!).
Either way monitors are like girlfriends: we can't all love the same one, we need to find the one which suits us.

[doug_hti]

Originally Posted by O.F.F.

The idea to run NS10s of a Bryston reminds me of a saying involving pearls and swine...

Have you worked extensively on them powered by Bryston?

[audible]

I do not have them in my control room, though if they were more affordable I would think about having a pair because the NS-10 can help in making aggressive rock mixes. They are a bit fatiguing to listen to, but they do deliver good results. Be sure to stock some extra tweeters and woofers as they are often blown.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by doug_hti

and here we go......

follow slipperman's advice.
Put a good amp on them, because this is where some of the people that THINK they've tried them are falling short. Not only that, they are putting their own crappy mixes on them. I use a hafler at own studio, a mackie amp at another sound stage and I have a Bryston 4B after having a Perreaux Classic 200 on them. I like the Bryston the best by far with Kimber Speaker Cable.

From a working issue, the biggest issue you may run into is sorting out your bass....yet it's where I love them. If I can get a mix to slam on them and have loud, punchy, and clear bass frequencies.....and then be able to put the mix on another full range system with the bass sitting right, then the bottom end is probably going to rock, even though I use a JVC mini component system/boom box to check as well...but you will understand once you learn how to get bass on them without overloading full range systems....

I'm guessing that other people are going to say, "well I mix on XXXXX monitor that tells me EVERYTHING, I can hear every frequency."
That's great fine and dandy, except for the fact that 99% of the people listening to music don't have full range systems and I find that if you don't mix a part of your time on some band limited monitors, then you won't always have a realistic idea of how it's translating to the street....
As I'm sure you've read, NS10s also excel at sorting out delicate and dense mix levels in regards to track vs vox.

Listen to your mixes loud, listen to them quiet, they should sound right at any level.

If you don't like them at the end of the day, nobody has to keep talking you into liking them. It still boggles my mind why people hate them so bad in a way that they call you an idiot if you are in to them....but of those people that I've actually met outside of the ones on gearslutz, i have yet to hear their "amazing" mixes.

Great post. I'm also a big NS10m fan. Pretty much all I use.

Every other monitor seems to make work too much in the higher end spectrum (3k - 7k)

IMHO that area will sound very different on every system. Focusing a little lower will translate on more systems much better.

[theblue1]

NS-10m's are the speakers that really drive home the different strokes adage... some folks love 'em, some folks hate 'em, and some folks have an... evolving opinion.

NS-10m's were my first "serious" monitors (unless Minimus 7's count) and what I found was that I just couldn't get the bass right to save my life. In those days, especially, I was using a lot of synth bass, some real basement shakin' stuff and I was completely flying blind... by the better part of a couple octaves.

When I got a pair of speakers that were relatively-flat to below 40 Hz (20/20bas) -- and a lot flatter overall than the NS10m's -- I really improved my mixes. I still used the NS10m's to zero in on what was going on in the all important upper-mid-lower treble, as a kind of magnifying lens, but the bigger speakers were monitoring probably 80%+ of the time.

For the last few years, though, I have used the NS10m's for everyday listening and work, powering them with a Yamaha power amp with a continuously variable passive loudness comp curve... that curve, properly dialed in actually makes the NS10m's pleasing sounding (honest to gosh, I am not lying) with a fatter, rounder bass (I've got an EQ in, right? Using vague, ill-defined terms is right in line.) And the highs are actually considserably smoother. It's like they were made for each other.

(Well, they are both Yamaha and likely designed originally for the same market tier. The amp is actually kind of cool -- it would be more so if the digital tuner had been worth a damn... it's got a button that cuts out all controls but the master volume. The tone controls and the balance (and of course, the continuously variable loudness comp curve) are outta there. And then it's a straight wire with a volume knob. Of course, it's a straight wire with a volume knob from Yamaha. )

[dokushoka]

NS10s were never meant to be the only speakers in the control room

they do what they do and do it well,.. But there not mains, no mater how many sub woofers you add.

Why not? I find mains to typically be a major distraction and seriously dislike mixing on them. Now a days I only use NS10s and a pair of really small, highly detailed speakers to make a quick reference, if I feel the need to. I see no reason to use something bigger than NS10s in most instances. Its all personal preference and knowing your monitors anyways. I truly don't believe that monitors matter all that much when it comes to mixing. Sitting in on some talented mixers with bad monitors will make that incredibly clear in a hurry...

[Fernando S.]

Originally Posted by stevep

There not supposed to be friendly

NS10s were never meant to be the only speakers in the control room

they do what they do and do it well,.. But there not mains, no mater how many sub woofers you add.


.

Thats truth.