Songwriting Advances?

[goldenlotus]

Just curious about this. When a writer's song gets placed on an album, do they recieve a cash advance the way a producer would? Or do they only recieve money from the publishing rights?

[taturana]

well, it really depends on the album... and how interested they are in publishing your song...

for an indie record expect little or no advances.... for major label it really depends who´s record it is... if the artist is well established and sells well advances are usually a lot better.

now reading your question again... i have only seen publishing companies give out advances to writers... they are responsible for clearing rights issues... so once you´ve worked out a deal with them that´s it. the recording companie will deal with the publisher ( even if it is in-house so to speak)

[goldenlotus]

Seems like a lot of writers are starting their own publishing companies these days. If a writer was self published would the record company pay the pub company(ie the writer) a license fee?

On most commercial pop/rnb tracks there's more than one writer listed. Does the label have to work a separate deal with each writer's respective publisher, or is it one deal for the song that each of the writers agrees to?

[Jules]

Originally Posted by goldenlotus

Just curious about this. When a writer's song gets placed on an album, do they recieve a cash advance the way a producer would? Or do they only recieve money from the publishing rights?

Advances aren't automatic. But the songwriter could contact Publishers to see if they were interested in offering an advance & starting a 'publishing deal' with the writer.

With no advance, there would be a long wait for funds to come through.

Traditionally the best time to get an advance is when a song / album is climbing the charts and looks like it will be a hit. That when big offers can come in.

Record co A&R people have said to me that music publishers are a slightly different breed, they prefer to unearth the talent themselves rather than have it brought to them. But thats just a matter of opinion and not a hard fact

[goldenlotus]

Thanks Jules

So most writers don't recieve any sort of payment until their song is on an album that is selling well?

[Kenny Gioia]

I'm confused by the question.

Do you want to know if the artist/label will give you an advance to cut your song or if your publisher will give you an advance for each cut you get?

[nadumr]

Originally Posted by goldenlotus

So most writers don't recieve any sort of payment until their song is on an album that is selling well?

Some who have been successful with a few cuts (and hit singles) are able to get a fee for the writing sessions...but that's a very small percentage of writers out there..

[chrisgraff]

Originally Posted by goldenlotus

Thanks Jules

So most writers don't recieve any sort of payment until their song is on an album that is selling well?

Yes. Six months minimum...nine months to a year is probably more realistic. In Nashville, certain banks will loan broke songwriters money, if they have a song that is doing well.

[goldenlotus]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I'm confused by the question.

Do you want to know if the artist/label will give you an advance to cut your song or if your publisher will give you an advance for each cut you get?

I guess both really. I'm just wondering what money songwriters live off until they start recieving royalty checks. Most likely for the up and coming ones, they live off their day job.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by goldenlotus

I guess both really. I'm just wondering what money songwriters live off until they start recieving royalty checks. Most likely for the up and coming ones, they live off their day job.

LOL That would be their McDonalds gig! These days with over 73% of CD's released in 2006 selling less than 100 units, I would think songwriters have more pressing needs to deal with. I'm not sure how the mechanicals are dealt with on iTunes and the like, but for hard CD sales, songwriting is dead as far as being a profession you can live off of. Obviously there are a couple of exceptions.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by goldenlotus

I guess both really. I'm just wondering what money songwriters live off until they start recieving royalty checks. Most likely for the up and coming ones, they live off their day job.

If they are signed to a publishing company they get a an advance (usually every year), which enables them to focus on writing without having to work a day job. In return they have to deliver a certain amount of songs each month/year. So basically somebody can work full-time as a songwriter without having any real hits... as long as the publisher sees potential.

I suggest you pick up a music business book. You seem to lack fundamental basics.

[Steffmo]

I haven't heard any advances in songwriting since the Beatles hit.

[nadumr]

Originally Posted by quietdrive

If they are signed to a publishing company they get a an advance (usually every year), which enables them to focus on writing without having to work a day job. In return they have to deliver a certain amount of songs each month/year. So basically somebody can work full-time as a songwriter without having any real hits... as long as the publisher sees potential.

I suggest you pick up a music business book. You seem to lack fundamental basics.

If someone is becoming a staff writer while having not already had cuts that created some revenue, I can't imagine that advance is worth much...hypothetically

[goldenlotus]

Originally Posted by quietdrive

If they are signed to a publishing company they get a an advance (usually every year), which enables them to focus on writing without having to work a day job. In return they have to deliver a certain amount of songs each month/year. So basically somebody can work full-time as a songwriter without having any real hits... as long as the publisher sees potential.

I suggest you pick up a music business book. You seem to lack fundamental basics.

What you're describing is how it works in Nashville. I don't think staffwriting positions are as common in other genres.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by goldenlotus

I guess both really. I'm just wondering what money songwriters live off until they start recieving royalty checks. Most likely for the up and coming ones, they live off their day job.

I never received any money from the label or artist for my songs. What I was able to do was demand that I produce the cut if they want it. That's how you get paid up front.

Publishers will also pay you but it's usually an advance when you sign the deal and more advances as the years go on. A lot of times the second year doesn't start until you have a certain amount of releases. But it does vary.

[Led]

Yes, the only advances I've seen for songwriting have been from a publisher who wants to sign you, not in regards to a specific song being recorded.