Those of you who cut and edit drums, or use beat detective, what do you do about OHs?

Ice · 1st July 2007, 09:24 PM

So, I've just been getting into quantizing my drums and all that, but I find that some of the hits may move away from the original sound in the OHs, or the hits might not sync up properly, so what does one do? Do you guys just take cymbal samples from your session and plug them in as necessary? Please clue me in, thanks!

Regards,
Daniel

AlexLakis · 1st July 2007, 09:30 PM

Group the overheads with everything else and beat detective them together with the close mics.

I've found it sometimes helps to shift the overheads/rooms up a bit during the detection/editing process (depending how they're mic'd, and how much delay is involved,) then shift them back to their original spots after the massacre has ended. It can help prevent unnecessary edit points from popping up.

TheSweetener · 1st July 2007, 09:46 PM

If you edit the timing you have to cut and edit ALL drumtracks simultaniously! Otherwise it's a phase massacre.

Ice · 1st July 2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSweetener

If you edit the timing you have to cut and edit ALL drumtracks simultaniously! Otherwise it's a phase massacre.

Now if you cut everything at once, won't that lead to choppy cymbals with no sustain and what not? That's why I was asking about cutting in samples of cymbals from your session.

gibsonlp75 · 1st July 2007, 10:15 PM

typically no, it shouldnt lead to choppy cymbals if all your edits are good...

also depends on how off or not the drummer is... if he's pretty close, no problem, if he's really loose, you may hear an edit

thats my .02 cents

ryanojohn · 1st July 2007, 10:15 PM

well you cut up the segments, align them to the grid, then you use the TCE to reconnect all the tails, and make it so there is no open space anymore, and everything is connected again... and thus no choppy parts

TheSweetener · 1st July 2007, 10:16 PM

Not if you do it right. I usually cut almost every beat of a drumrecording (don't beat me please

) and I can tell you that everything is possible if you know where and how to cut. Even very fast and progressive grindcore metal stuff.

AlexLakis · 1st July 2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanojohn

well you cut up the segments, align them to the grid, then you use the TCE to reconnect all the tails, and make it so there is no open space anymore, and everything is connected again... and thus no choppy parts

I very rarely use TC/E, I just use crossfades. I only use TC/E when the drummers timing is so bad, it isn't possible to use a crossfade, and that's almost always only on stuff I didn't track, because if the drummer is that off, it's time for another take.

peeder · 1st July 2007, 10:41 PM

I guess this sort of extensive surgery is possible, but I can't help but think one of these options would be easier and better:

1) Send out for a better drummer. Lots of great drummers will ghost no questions asked.

2) Have the drums triggered, or just play on V-drums to start with.

3) Replace everything with samples + verbs.

If you're recording real drums (a revolutionary idea these days), I would think you're after reality. Timing variation is part of reality. Timing variation is 90% of drumming. If your drummer can't provide a good, organic reality, then you might as well aim for a perfect falsehood in both sound and time. I don't think the sound illusion is as important as the timing illusion.

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1st July 2007, 09:24 PM	#1
Ice Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 49	Those of you who cut and edit drums, or use beat detective, what do you do about OHs? So, I've just been getting into quantizing my drums and all that, but I find that some of the hits may move away from the original sound in the OHs, or the hits might not sync up properly, so what does one do? Do you guys just take cymbal samples from your session and plug them in as necessary? Please clue me in, thanks! Regards, Daniel

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1st July 2007, 09:30 PM	#2
AlexLakis Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Annapolis, MD/L.A. Posts: 3,612	Group the overheads with everything else and beat detective them together with the close mics. I've found it sometimes helps to shift the overheads/rooms up a bit during the detection/editing process (depending how they're mic'd, and how much delay is involved,) then shift them back to their original spots after the massacre has ended. It can help prevent unnecessary edit points from popping up.

1st July 2007, 09:46 PM	#3
TheSweetener Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Germany / Frankfurt Posts: 969	If you edit the timing you have to cut and edit ALL drumtracks simultaniously! Otherwise it's a phase massacre.

1st July 2007, 10:15 PM	#5
gibsonlp75 Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 144	typically no, it shouldnt lead to choppy cymbals if all your edits are good... also depends on how off or not the drummer is... if he's pretty close, no problem, if he's really loose, you may hear an edit thats my .02 cents

1st July 2007, 10:15 PM	#6
ryanojohn Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emeryvile, CA Posts: 445	well you cut up the segments, align them to the grid, then you use the TCE to reconnect all the tails, and make it so there is no open space anymore, and everything is connected again... and thus no choppy parts

1st July 2007, 10:16 PM	#7
TheSweetener Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Germany / Frankfurt Posts: 969	Not if you do it right. I usually cut almost every beat of a drumrecording (don't beat me please ) and I can tell you that everything is possible if you know where and how to cut. Even very fast and progressive grindcore metal stuff.

1st July 2007, 10:41 PM	#9
peeder Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: No longer participating here. Posts: 6,742	I guess this sort of extensive surgery is possible, but I can't help but think one of these options would be easier and better: 1) Send out for a better drummer. Lots of great drummers will ghost no questions asked. 2) Have the drums triggered, or just play on V-drums to start with. 3) Replace everything with samples + verbs. If you're recording real drums (a revolutionary idea these days), I would think you're after reality. Timing variation is part of reality. Timing variation is 90% of drumming. If your drummer can't provide a good, organic reality, then you might as well aim for a perfect falsehood in both sound and time. I don't think the sound illusion is as important as the timing illusion.