To buy 824's or not to buy? that is the question..

[stereobot]

I have an opportunity to buy some used Mackie 824's (not the MKIIs) for $500 for the pair. Seems like a great buy considering the used prices I have been seeing...

I am also seeing mixed reviews too. I have heard them once, I liked them a lot except for the low end **EDIT: I wasn't hearing ANYTHING under like 150hz!! , which sounded basically like it wasn't there - like a hole where the low end should be. The bass was not rolled off at 80 hz either, I checked. But they were placed very far apart from each other, and the room was some guy's living room with some rounded walls, so I attributed that set up for ruining the sound. I passed on that deal.

Here is my situation - I am in an untreated room (living room in an apartment). I just pretty much write and mix using Logic Pro. I currently have Alesis M1 Active monitors which I really never totally liked.. I can't seem to learn them, but they aren't bad for $200. Now I can upgrade, but I am not sure if the Mackie 824's are right for me in my current situation.

I sit with my monitors 3-4 feet away from me. I work at low to mid volume levels. Room treatment is not an option, but I have set things up the best I can.

Not considering the money - does anyone else think I should go for these or not? I write rock/metal/dance music. I am concerned about the low end being a problem, and also the fact I would be sitting maybe too close to the monitors. I know low end is always an issue with near fields, mid fields, but I want to at least HEAR them, know they are there, eventually I will learn them.

Also - I cannot seem to find the difference between the 824's and the 824 MKII monitors...

Any suggestions? would anyone recommend I buy them or no? I know $500 is kind of a steal..

oh - I like very flat clear monitors (who doesn't..) I would love a pair of NS10s if that helps anyone offer suggestions.

thanks!

[patrox247]

1. Hip hop guys love em
2. They have bottom end for days
3. The price is nice
4. They can't be your only monitor because the midrange is really masked. It's difficult to get proper level ballance

[stereobot]

i have heard the midrange is difficult, especially when working on vocals..

I guess I am more concerned about working with the 824's in an untreated room and being less than 4 feet away from them. I know an untreated room will screw up a mix using any monitors, but there isn't anything I can do about the room right now.

I just want my monitors to be as accurate as possible, and unfortunately I cannot aquire NS10s and an amp for the same price as these 824's.

I am assuming anyone will say the 824s are better than my current Alesis M1 Actives, but I would be interested to hear any thoughts.

Why do hip hop people love the 824's? because of the bass? I am not interested in the mix ONLY sounding good on the 824's, I am more concerned about the mix transferring.

thank you for the reply.

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by stereobot

I am more concerned about the mix transferring.

if i may: perhaps you should concentrate more on treating your room, then.

i ran with some 624's for a couple years. first, the room was untreated, and i had a lot of trouble mixing. after treating my room, my mixes translated a lot better, even with the 624's.

fwiw, i like the 624's more than the 824's, which i borrowed for a while from a friend. i found the 624's more reasonable in the lows, and the mids seemed a little more focused, too. now i'm running focal solo6's and enjoying the hell out of 'em.

[patrox247]

For the price your talking about, I personally don't think you could do much better.
824's have a real "full range" type of thing going, almost like mains. A lot of guys use them, but it's best if you can suppliment them with NS10's or something else that is really defined in the mid-range. As far as having them in an untreated room goes, it depends on what the problems in the room are. I've noticed that the guys who are really into sound treatment the most, usually have the worst sounding rooms. I think this is because they do things because they think are supposed to, or they read or were told by someone that it was the correct way to do things.
I have a different philosophy when it comes to treatment and it goes something like this. - Listen for a problem then fix the problem. Run accross a problem then fix the poblem. I've seen rooms be absolutely ruined by excess and poor implementation of sound treatment. Remember - everything you do, tends to effect something else. Also there is no such thing as a perfect room (at any price) no matter what anyone tells you (I've never heard one, and I've worked in most of the revered rooms in the US).

[AllAboutTone]

SNTM << say no to mackie !!!

Hell for 500 you can get some KRK V8, V6 old series, they are nice.

I went on a big test drive one day and Mackie was at the bottom when i finished.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by patrox247

For the price your talking about, I personally don't think you could do much better.
824's have a real "full range" type of thing going, almost like mains. A lot of guys use them, but it's best if you can suppliment them with NS10's or something else that is really defined in the mid-range. As far as having them in an untreated room goes, it depends on what the problems in the room are. I've noticed that the guys who are really into sound treatment the most, usually have the worst sounding rooms. I think this is because they do things because they think are supposed to, or they read or were told by someone that it was the correct way to do things.
I have a different philosophy when it comes to treatment and it goes something like this. - Listen for a problem then fix the problem. Run accross a problem then fix the poblem. I've seen rooms be absolutely ruined by excess and poor implementation of sound treatment. Remember - everything you do, tends to effect something else. Also there is no such thing as a perfect room (at any price) no matter what anyone tells you (I've never heard one, and I've worked in most of the revered rooms in the US).

Well... sure this is sort of true but most SMALL rooms, which it sounds like stereobot has, have the same problems. Lots of low end nodal problems with large peaks and valleys in the lows and low mids.

"Listen for the problem then fix the problem" sounds fine in theory but in practice it does not usually go that way especially for guys who might be newer to the game.

The best way to do it is to get a cheap Radio Shack SPL meter and tone out your lows and then start working on the problem areas... but you will find that the solutions to the problem would be the same if you tone out the room as if you would have just went ahead and put up some 703 in the first place.

So stereobot, go get yourself $100 or $150 worth of OC 703, lean it up against the corners of the room. No need to get all fancy if you don't have the time, money or experience. Just lean that sh*t right up there.

THEN get the Mackies. Don't let folks around here fool you, the Mackies are not bad at all. There are better speakers and yes the 824 mids are a little funky but they are great all rounders. I don't think that price is GREAT but it is okay.

Good luck!

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Well... sure this is sort of true but most SMALL rooms, which it sounds like stereobot has, have the same problems. Lots of low end nodal problems with large peaks and valleys in the lows and low mids.

"Listen for the problem then fix the problem" sounds fine in theory but in practice it does not usually go that way especially for guys who might be newer to the game.

The best way to do it is to get a cheap Radio Shack SPL meter and tone out your lows and then start working on the problem areas... but you will find that the solutions to the problem would be the same if you tone out the room as if you would have just went ahead and put up some 703 in the first place.

So stereobot, go get yourself $100 or $150 worth of OC 703, lean it up against the corners of the room. No need to get all fancy if you don't have the time, money or experience. Just lean that sh*t right up there.

THEN get the Mackies. Don't let folks around here fool you, the Mackies are not bad at all. There are better speakers and yes the 824 mids are a little funky but they are great all rounders. I don't think that price is GREAT but it is okay.

Good luck!

I'm just saying that in my opinion, one should aproach room treatment with a minimilistic aproach. I don't know how much that RadioShack SPL meter will help him without some in depth knowledge of acoustics.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by patrox247

I'm just saying that in my opinion, one should aproach room treatment with a minimilistic aproach. I don't know how much that RadioShack SPL meter will help him without some in depth knowledge of acoustics.

Yeah.... that is a good point you got there. Really when it gets down to it, as I said most small rooms have the same problem, low end nodes. He could get all crazy and try to get some tuned absorption in there but as you said, without a depth of knowledge on the subject that is going to get minimal results with allot of frustration and money spent.

A better solution for small rooms with all sorts of crazy sh*t going on in the low end is to just get the 703. It is a very inexpensive solution if you don't mind not covering them, it will make a HUGE difference in your low end and if you get FSK you don't lose a ton of highs.

I know, I speak of the above from direct experience and I can say flat out it made the single largest improvement to my recordings and I have allot of money tied up in gear.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by patrox247

1. Hip hop guys love em
2. They have bottom end for days
3. The price is nice
4. They can't be your only monitor because the midrange is really masked. It's difficult to get proper level ballance

werd

[u b k]

not to buy. they are, at best, deceivers that can be compensated for and worked around. who needs that?

you'd be much better off keeping the alesis and getting the ns10's as your primary balance refs.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[goldphinga]

I knew the 824 bashing would start again sooner or later. Its like everytime they are mentioned, the bashing crew just cant help themselves. Because they say Mackie on people dont like them and thats a fact. They are a great set of speakers to have as your only monitors. By all means compliment them with another set of monitors but this is NOT an necessity.

Hr 824's are great as your only set of monitors. They have a SLIGHT dip in midrange response but ALL speakers have their own little quirks. Once you know that you work round it.The 624's have a marginally flatter response but not enough power. At the price they are doing the 824's for now , its a no brainer.

I would say buy them! Ive used mine exclusively for 6 years and ive had nothing but compliments about how they sound in my room and how my mixes translate and sound.
Im giving the positive side of the argument for them because that is my experience. Bear in mind lots of people on these forums have never even used them and just jump on bashing bandwagons or regurgitate what someone else has told them without being able to substantiate their claims.

First hand experience with a piece of gear is everything, so try them before you buy.

[alessio]

I'm using 824 everyday and I've done a lots of acoustic records with them. When I go to the mastering suite of other studios, the mastering engineer does'nt need to correct my mix. I prefer them to the genelec. But I use them togheter a pair of NS10 especially for balancing the voice in the mix.
Alessio
www.spazisonori.com

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by goldphinga

I knew the 824 bashing would start again sooner or later. Its like everytime they are mentioned, the bashing crew just cant help themselves. Because they say Mackie on people dont like them and thats a fact. They are a great set of speakers to have as your only monitors. By all means compliment them with another set of monitors but this is NOT an necessity.

Hr 824's are great as your only set of monitors. They have a SLIGHT dip in midrange response but ALL speakers have their own little quirks. Once you know that you work round it.The 624's have a marginally flatter response but not enough power. At the price they are doing the 824's for now , its a no brainer.

I would say buy them! Ive used mine exclusively for 6 years and ive had nothing but compliments about how they sound in my room and how my mixes translate and sound.
Im giving the positive side of the argument for them because that is my experience. Bear in mind lots of people on these forums have never even used them and just jump on bashing bandwagons or regurgitate what someone else has told them without being able to substantiate their claims.

First hand experience with a piece of gear is everything, so try them before you buy.

I wasn't bashing the 824's. We have a pair over here, and I was just giving my honest opinion. I beleive it is difficult to ballance levels with the 824's. The fact that Mackie sucks is an entirely different issue.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by stereobot

I wasn't hearing ANYTHING under like 150hz!!

were you listening to them over the telephone?

$499 is pretty much what stores are selling the mk 1's off for these days. Its a good deal for that price.

They're not that bad, sometimes I think people around here give shit to what they think they should give shit to, as opposed to actually thinking for themselves.

btw. I use Lipinski monitors, same as bob katz's mastering set up, I'm really fussy when it comes to monitoring and have some of the best available at any price. My brother has 824's in his home studio, sometimes I do some stuff for him at his place, and for the money I don't think there's anythig wrong with them.

narco

[goldphinga]

Originally Posted by narco

sometimes I think people around here give shit to what they think they should give shit to, as opposed to actually thinking for themselves.

well said

[stereobot]

Originally Posted by zimv20

if i may: perhaps you should concentrate more on treating your room, then.

I know.. I should have noted that I am aware that it is pretty much rediculous for me to say I want my mixes to transfer when I am working in an untreated room... I am an educated engineer and I know what I am asking isn't realistic.. I know how acoustics work, and am well aware my current situation is not ideal for what I am trying to do.

I live in an apartment with my girlfriend, I have my set up in the living room. The room walls will not have foam or other treatment on it, its just not an option until we get a house.

I just want to get the best results with what I have (or don't have). Some monitors are really bad to have in an untreated room, some are not so bad.

Looks like the $500 price tag isn't such an amazing deal after all. I think I am going to pass on this deal and hold out for NS10s which I really like and am used to anyway. Also the seller never responded to my e-mail, so they might be gone.

I was thinking the 624s would be a better option for me, but the issue was that I could get the 824s at $500, I don't have access to a pair of 624s for anywhere near that price.

thank you all who responded, it was definately helpful and you guys helped me save $500 for now.

...and no, I wasn't listening to the 824s over the phone when I couldn't hear the lower frequencies. I don't know what the deal was then except for how the monitors were set up at the time and the shape of the room.

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by stereobot

The room walls will not have foam or other treatment on it, its just not an option until we get a house.

what about a couple bass traps stuck in the corners? the very first RealTrap i stuck in my room made the most pronounced differene.

[ScottTunes]

The Mackie HR824 monitors are probably the best bang for the buck you'll find. NS10s were great 20 years ago (with ADATs). But I personally hate 'em. Too harsh.

My personal favorite is Blue Sky 2.1 for truth in sound. But, at half the price, the 824s are great. Set 'em up within a few feet of a wall and they have a nice full range, unlike the NS10s.

Plenty mixers and tracking studios use 824s. Easy on the ears long term, easy to learn, and translate well to other systems. To make 'em even better (the same as what I use), add a sub.

Nay-sayers probably haven't used them in a pro sit anyway... I've not met ANYONE who actually uses Mackies that say anything bad about 'em.

Take that for what it's worth. They aren't just the best for the money, they are probably the ONLY monitor for that kind of cash worth listening to.

Are there better, or worse? You bet! But for $500, you can make some great music you might otherewise miss. As with any monitor you should buy 'em, learn 'em, and enjoy 'em!!

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by tifftunes

I've not met ANYONE who actually uses Mackies that say anything bad about 'em.

here you are: i used 624's for years and was happy to be rid of them. and i liked them better than the 824's i borrowed for a while.

there.

[ScottTunes]

Originally Posted by zimv20

here you are: i used 624's for years and was happy to be rid of them. and i liked them better than the 824's i borrowed for a while.

there.

There you go, then. zimv20 used the smaller 624s, not the 824s, and for who knows how long, and at what level, and so on...

NOT TO MENTION, I've not met zimv20 either, and therefore cannot vouch for his taste or talent. I can vouch for his attitude and attention span however...

Snotty attitude aside, the Mackies are good enough to make a professional product, and many people use 'em for just that. I'd use em' in a heartbeat!

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by tifftunes

I've not met ANYONE who actually uses Mackies that say anything bad about 'em.

Originally Posted by tifftunes

I've not met zimv20

nice one.

[goldphinga]

Originally Posted by zimv20

here you are: i used 624's for years and was happy to be rid of them. and i liked them better than the 824's i borrowed for a while.

there.

Why did you use them for years if they were so bad????

[gurubuzz]

I've never used them not have I read all these posts

BUT

A lecturer at a college with an awesome audio department said to me he hated them because everything sounds great on them....

he replaced all of them with KRK


This is third a hand opinion......

[Don S]

I agree for the price (used) it will be hard to beat. But, I would look for something a little more true in the mids. Eventually it will bug the heck out of you.
Also, try to find a pair made in the USA, older than 6 years or so. They sound much different than than the current 824s coming from China. The older 824's have considerably more detail. I supect the people that love their Mackies have an older pair.

Cheers,
Don

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by goldphinga

Why did you use them for years if they were so bad????

other things needed upgrading first.

[reflexon]

I don't think they are bad for the price. I got a wicked deal on mine and I don't think I could have done better with the amount of cash I had at the time. Fast forward five years later and I am looking to replace them. I don't think I want to keep them as a B set because they really don't bring anything to the party that I can't live without. I will say that they are GREAT for playing stuff back for clients!

If these are going to be a long term investment, I might save a little more and step it up a little. They definitely aren't as bad as some of the folks around here claim. If you can't mix on them, its not the speakers.

Clear as Mud?

[PRobb]

I think they're a good buy for $500. And I think the perfect compliment to them is a pair of Aventone/Auratones, not NS-10s. What the Mackies lack, as many have said, is midrange. The Auratones are the midrange champions. THE best place to hear balance, regardless of price.