Suggestions on Micing a Piano

[Jburn34]

I'm going to be recording grand piano in the next couple weeks and would appreciate some tips on it. I will be in an awesome room, pretty much a recital hall built for acoustic instruments. I will also have my pick between a few pianos, and they're all well tuned and kept up. I'm going to list my mic/pre list below. I mainly am looking for suggestions...I know nothing will work in 100% of situations, but I'd like to see how ya'll would do it.

U87's (2)
tlm 103's (2)
Schoeps CMC6/mk4 (2) if I can buy some mk4 capsules by then
akg 414eb
at 4047
akg c451 (2)
shure sm7 (and 57's of course)
Groove Tubes 66
Studio Projects C1

Pres:
Avalon AD-2022
Vintech 1272
API 3124 (hopefully)
Presonus 8 channel thingy

The performance will most likely be just piano with vox added later.

Thanks,
Jeremy

[NathanEldred]

Out of that list it would be the Schoeps into the Avalon 2022. 2nd would be the 451's into the Vintech (a very complimentary situation since the Vintech is top attenuated, and the 451's are very airy in the top).

[Jburn34]

I was thinking the schoeps into the avalon might work. Can't wait to try it. I'm also interested in the techniques you use to mic it. It will probably be the only instrument for this song.

Jeremy

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by Jburn34
I'm also interested in the techniques you use to mic it.

There are a ton of different techniques depending on what you are after. Here is a cool link called Microphone University from DPA, click on "Applications Guide", then "Grand Piano".


http://www.dpamicrophones.com/eng_pub/MicUni/Main.html

[nlc201]

I'd start out with the Schoeps through the Avalon in ORTF..... Can you get some omni capsules? A friend of mine just had great success with the schoeps in a small AB pair. If the room is large enough and you want a bigger sound, you could do a large AB. Mic placement will be critical. Try to get the mics up pretty high if you've got decent height ceilings to work with. The key is try and minimize the lid reflections as they can really muck up the sound. An ORTF should do you fine if the room is awesome. If you need more definition and control, you could move closer or switch to an XY. In noisey situations (A/C, audience ambience), XY can tighten up the sound quite a bit at the expense of width and depth. It's also great if you want to dry up the sound. Good luck!

[Jburn34]

As far as the ORTF, are you saying the placement would be almost from the player's perspective and over the hammers, or from the audience's perspective on the side? The room is really big and quiet, and the ceiling is pretty high also.

I am going to try and find a pair of omni capsules, so actually whatever I come across first as far as the capsules go is what I'll go with. If the schoeps are not available, what other mics will be worth trying?

Thanks,
Jeremy

[e-cue]

I'd put the U87's in omni through the Avalon AD-2022.

[Fletcher]

I'd start out by asking what kind of piano track... classical? jazz? rock and roll? Bill Payne rock and roll? or Jerry Lee Lewis/Nicky Hopkins rock and roll? Elton John/Bruce Hornsby too big an bright kinda part? or softer textural background part?

Then I'd ask if I were dealing with a Steinway "D"? or a Yamaha "C-7" ? or a Kawai or something like the 5' Hardman in my dining room [and we all know a Hardman is good to find].

What else has been laid in the song... is the player playing the part in the middle of the keyboard or are they giving me a couple of octaves around the hands so I can get the guitars to come through... or is this just a solo piano piece where all I'm dealing with is getting the piano to sound like the piano [only bigger].

At least for me... there are way too many variables that require careful consideration before walking onto the firing line.

Best of luck with the gig!! I'm sure it'll go fine if you just sit back, breathe, try a couple of different things, don't be in a rush, check shit in mono, and let the music dictate where your end results should lead you.

Peace.

[bloodstone]

My one experience with a Steinway Grand Piano was in a Baptist church. I used 2 Oktava ML 52 ribbons into a Drawmer 1969, and recorded to two channels of a Tascam 38. It turned out great! The top of the instrument was up, and I positioned the two mics on the open side about 3' apart & 12-18" from the piano strings, at about a 45 degree angle to them.

[fifthcircle]

Just want to emphasize... Re-read what Fletcher said...

There are so many ways to mic a piano, but they are dependent on the instrument, style of music, room, etc... I mic a piano differently if it is a jazz gig than a rock gig than a classical gig. If it is classical, it varries if it is with other instruments, a solo instrument, or part of a large ensemble.

Why don't you describe here what you are trying to accomplish.

--Ben

[ProfessorFrink]

If you're allowed to do so, experiment with taking the lid off the Piano. The Schoeps seem to be the best mic choice. if this is going to be a solo performance set up as many room mic's as you have time/patience for and choose which sounds best when mixing.

[concentric]

Originally posted by Jburn34
I'm going to be recording grand piano in the next couple weeks and would appreciate some tips on it. I will be in an awesome room, pretty much a recital hall built for acoustic instruments. I will also have my pick between a few pianos, and they're all well tuned and kept up. I'm going to list my mic/pre list below. I mainly am looking for suggestions...I know nothing will work in 100% of situations, but I'd like to see how ya'll would do it.

Why try only one setup? You have the mics and pre's and probably the tracks to throw up a couple choices. Make your decisions at mix, not with the instrument in isolation. Blend to taste.

Jason

[doug_hti]

ala, Fletcher post, if you are looking for that Bruce Hornsby sound,or even a nice sound to cut through, it is achieved with two c414, ABed over the hammers. However, they are pointed (tops of mics) almost at the corners of the piano, and angled out, away from each other about 5degrees. They are about 14 inches off the hammers and maybe about 4 inches back, and probably only 14inches away from each other. They pretty much violate the 3-1 phase rule, but they sound great, just listen...

if you add a room xy, you can control that element as well


-------------------
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii <----hammers
.......\...../...... <-----mics

[Jburn34]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm going to be recording it this weekend. I am going to try all the techniques that were suggested. The music will not be classical and not rock either, probably somewhere in between, probably a little popish...I know the guy likes Coldplay. I'm mainly doing it to get some experience on it. I've miked up Grand Piano before, but it was always the kind of situation where I didn't have a whole lot of time to experiment. That's why I want to get some time on it this weekend. I figure I've got more than enough tools to get it done, so I need to learn it. Thanks for all the tips!

[toledo3]

The 2022 pre is great for clean and big sound. I would be up in the air as using the schoeps vs. u87.

If this is could get "rockish" I would suggest going with whichever stereo mic setup you prefer, and then pulling out the sm7 and using it in a more slightly more distant position- however far you have to pull it up, or back, so that you get a balanced picture of the piano using just that sm7. I would probably hook it up to the vintech.