Can someone describe the "Neve" sound?

[cmpsr]

I've never had the funds to get into high-end mic pres, compressors or EQs, nor have I worked in large studios with similar equipment. I notice however that a lot of manufacturers refer to having a "Neve" like sound or quality present in their gear. For example the Great River ME1NV mic pre (a unit I consider buying) models Neve 1073 electronics. What does that do to its sound? Does it impart a more pleasing frequency curve or response? If so, can I use this to help tailor better sounding tracks?

Thanks

[raal]

Originally Posted by cmpsr

What does that do to its sound? Does it impart a more pleasing frequency curve or response? If so, can I use this to help tailor better sounding tracks?

Thanks

it's like a headache. hard to describe to someone who's never had one, but the words 'rich' and 'with substance' do come to mind. if you're interested in any piece of gear try to go some place that has it, and hear for yourself.

'Neve-like' in itself implies a comparison to something that is not 'Neve-like'. you just have to get in there and listen to various things to get different points of reference.

forums like this can be fun and informative sometimes, but hands on experience is something you will not get on the internet. it's like trying to explain the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul to someone that doesn't play guitar.

[ScumBum]

Ok you get a Neve pre , stick a mic into it , record something..... like electric guitar , then you'll say to yourself " Thats the sound I've been after all these years ! It sounds just like my old classic favorite albums ! "

Also the same thing happened when I first used a U87 .

You actually have heard the Neve sound for years and don't even know it .

[patrox247]

I would describe it as "Nevey" or perhaps "neve-alicous" would better bescribe it.
It's really cool to "neve-alize" guitars or vocals.

[Sigma]

well on the 1107's in our 8078 when ya added 3 db at 10 k 5k would measure +5 so very intereting eq.s ..they aren't surgical by any means they are "musical" and warm sounding if i had to describe them

in comparison to a 9000 id's say the J had a "brittle" and more surgical sound

[the tortoise]

Originally Posted by MushroomKingdom

Ok you get a Neve pre , stick a mic into it , record something..... like electric guitar , then you'll say to yourself " Thats the sound I've been after all these years ! It sounds just like my old classic favorite albums ! "

Also the same thing happened when I first used a U87 .

You actually have heard the Neve sound for years and don't even know it .

Exactly. Neve sounds 'like it should'.

There's just something magic about the Neve signal path that makes anything pushed through it sound like a record.

Although if you're after an adjective, 'Rich' would problably be a good one.

[A27Hull]

(Listen to...) Tower of Power: "What is Hip?"

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by Sigma

well on the 1107's in our 8078 when ya added 3 db at 10 k 5k would measure +5 so very intereting eq.s ..they aren't surgical by any means they are "musical" and warm sounding if i had to describe them

in comparison to a 9000 id's say the J had a "brittle" and more surgical sound

Hi

Is that a typo for 1105 or is there yet another module I haven't clapped eyes on for a couple of decades?

Have you got a picture of it?

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Geoff_T

Hi

Is that a typo for 1105 or is there yet another module I haven't clapped eyes on for a couple of decades?

Have you got a picture of it?

1107's [i asked rupert it was a 8078 post/precursor [even he was unsure at the time] board only 3 made..i don't know about the channel strips and how often they were used but the board was a bastard] i have about a dozen near mint face plates in a flat dull dark green that i want to unload .but have no scanner..maybe someone wants them for sheits and giggles

4 band eq's and with i believe variable gain and detent freq

alan sides bought the console from us

it was a STOCK 52 in frame

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by Sigma

1107's [i asked rupert it was a 8078 post/precursor [even he was unsure at the time] board only 3 made..i don't know about the channel strips and how often they were used but the board was a bastard] i have about a dozen near mint face plates in a flat dull dark green that i want to unload .but have no scanner..maybe someone wants them for sheits and giggles

4 band eq's and with i believe variable gain and detent freq

alan sides bought the console from us

it was a STOCK 52 in frame

Hi

Ah, now that rings a bell... that was the last of the custom Utopia consoles that had Hell and all mods done to it. It preceded the 8078 and was nice in that it used 1272 bus amps but my recollection (allowing for senility) was that the modules were originally line input only but were later converted to mic and line with Sowter transformers.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Geoff_T

Hi

Ah, now that rings a bell... that was the last of the custom Utopia consoles that had Hell and all mods done to it. It preceded the 8078 and was nice in that it used 1272 bus amps but my recollection (allowing for senility) was that the modules were originally line input only but were later converted to mic and line with Sowter transformers.

the board was from utopia studios it was a 52 channel 8 buss that we modded to 24/32 buss ..hahaha i was searching my dull brain for the name of the studio!
our tech guys made a center monitor section [ehh i never used it] that ssl later ganked for their 4000 series console

i think jim mctieg [sic] did some of the design work..glenn rosenstein [member here] remembers the console being worked on

PROPS TO YOU !!!!

ya know yer sheit!

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by the tortoise

Exactly. Neve sounds 'like it should'.

There's just something magic about the Neve signal path that makes anything pushed through it sound like a record.

Although if you're after an adjective, 'Rich' would problably be a good one.

I have recently demo'd the Neve 1073 on the UAudio board, and I am not impressed. I did my own blind listening test. I took the same two vocals (Neumann 103 and Rode Classic II) and ran them through various settings on the Neve, but also other software units. Then I burned them to a CD in a random order, and listened in the car. My favorite was the vocal run through Line6's gearbox, and none of the Neve settings made it at all. So I am yet to be convinced its any more than hype.

[jupiter8]

To Geoff T (and the rest of you for that matter). That BBC TV console on your site is the coolest thing i've seen in a long time.

Neve Consoles BBC TV Theatre

Here if anyone's interested.

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by gregohb

I have recently demo'd the Neve 1073 on the UAudio board, and I am not impressed. I did my own blind listening test. I took the same two vocals (Neumann 103 and Rode Classic II) and ran them through various settings on the Neve, but also other software units. Then I burned them to a CD in a random order, and listened in the car. My favorite was the vocal run through Line6's gearbox, and none of the Neve settings made it at all. So I am yet to be convinced its any more than hype.

Hi

To an ol' timer ex-Neve guy like myself, there's something ironic in reading that a computer simulation of a Neve module leads someone to not appreciate the "Neve" sound!

Who would ever have imagined these conversations back in the early '70's?

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by jupiter8

To Geoff T (and the rest of you for that matter). That BBC TV console on your site is the coolest thing i've seen in a long time.

Neve Consoles BBC TV Theatre

Here if anyone's interested.

Hi

Thanks... and don't those illuminated Painton faders look like something from a space ship?!!!

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by jupiter8

To Geoff T (and the rest of you for that matter). That BBC TV console on your site is the coolest thing i've seen in a long time.

Neve Consoles BBC TV Theatre

Here if anyone's interested.

Good stuff! I like the 5412 - 2 with the bakelite phone, looks right at home in some cold war spy movie.

[Midlandmorgan]

Originally Posted by Geoff_T

Hi

To an ol' timer ex-Neve guy like myself, there's something ironic in reading that a computer simulation of a Neve module leads someone to not appreciate the "Neve" sound!

Who would ever have imagined these conversations back in the early '70's?

I could not have envisioned them last week...

[bogeyeater]

Originally Posted by gregohb

I have recently demo'd the Neve 1073 on the UAudio board, and I am not impressed. I did my own blind listening test. I took the same two vocals (Neumann 103 and Rode Classic II) and ran them through various settings on the Neve, but also other software units. Then I burned them to a CD in a random order, and listened in the car. My favorite was the vocal run through Line6's gearbox, and none of the Neve settings made it at all. So I am yet to be convinced its any more than hype.

me too. i a/b'd the liquid channel 1073 emulation against my studio P vtb-1 and the vtb won by a mile - i used a radio shack dynamic. industry standard.

i wish newbies like geoff t would just hang back a little and gain some more experience in the real world before they come weighing in on threads like this

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by bogeyeater

me too. i a/b'd the liquid channel 1073 emulation against my studio P vtb-1 and the vtb won by a mile - i used a radio shack dynamic. industry standard.

i wish newbies like geoff t would just hang back a little and gain some more experience in the real world before they come weighing in on threads like this

[AllAboutTone]

POLICE RECORDS

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by gregohb

I have recently demo'd the Neve 1073 on the UAudio board, and I am not impressed. I did my own blind listening test. I took the same two vocals (Neumann 103 and Rode Classic II) and ran them through various settings on the Neve, but also other software units. Then I burned them to a CD in a random order, and listened in the car. My favorite was the vocal run through Line6's gearbox, and none of the Neve settings made it at all. So I am yet to be convinced its any more than hype.

I don't even know what to say.....Where do I start.......
Man...You better start at the chalkboard

[sada10]

Originally Posted by gregohb

I have recently demo'd the Neve 1073 on the UAudio board, and I am not impressed. I did my own blind listening test. I took the same two vocals (Neumann 103 and Rode Classic II) and ran them through various settings on the Neve, but also other software units. Then I burned them to a CD in a random order, and listened in the car. My favorite was the vocal run through Line6's gearbox, and none of the Neve settings made it at all. So I am yet to be convinced its any more than hype.

Originally Posted by patrox247

I don't even know what to say.....Where do I start.......
Man...You better start at the chalkboard

WOW!
I am glad u said it-for a minute I thought it was just me.
Can U say, "Move away from the table and put the pipe down slowly"?

PS
I just went out and drove my 5 yr. old daughter's battery motorized BMW-it
does not ride as smooth as my wife's Mazda MPV mini-van; for this reason I
am not sold on this whole BMW hype!

[Deadmeat]

Sound of Neve........


"expensive"..............

[davet]

I recorded some vocals with a pre that was called a Neve channel strip. We used a U87. The audio interface was a Lynx L22 into Sonar 5P. The result was really nice sounding vocals that "sit" perfectly in the mix. When I applied reverb or effects to the tracks I didn't have to tweak them much. It just worked with very little effort. As the other posters have said, you must experience this for yourself then you’ll understand the value of quality gear.

DaveT<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[trident fan]

Originally Posted by Midlandmorgan

I could not have envisioned them last week...

hilarious

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by sada10

WOW!
I am glad u said it-for a minute I thought it was just me.
Can U say, "Move away from the table and put the pipe down slowly"?

PS
I just went out and drove my 5 yr. old daughter's battery motorized BMW-it
does not ride as smooth as my wife's Mazda MPV mini-van; for this reason I
am not sold on this whole BMW hype!

I am not a pro recording engineer, so if I buy something ,it needs to ... i dunno ... work and sound good. I might spend $600 for the Neve combo for the UAudio card, but only if it does something useful. Otherwise its a waste of money for me. I did like the 1073 (Uaudio)'s crispness, but I didn't feel any magic. On the other hand, I demo'ed the Waves V-series which is some sort of emulation of the Neves, and I was immediately blown away by the vibe that was imparted. Of course Waves is one of the worst companies to deal with, but their plug sounded great. Maybe I am asking for too much, but before I spend money on a piece of software that can't be returned or resold I need to know it will do something for me.

I can't think of a single other area of software where people pay so much money for things which are so subtle, and questionable in value. By that I mean, no matter how good Neves, API, and SSL are, why can't something be designed which sounds even better? Or take guitars for instance. One of the most expensive guitars is the 1959 Les Paul as used by Jimmy Page. But when you listen to those records, is the tone really that great? No. And yet people will be a couple of grand just for a pickup for a guitar like that with very questionable value. The worst example is the new Van Halen guitar at $25k, where they made sure to use a 1971 Quarter and no other year, becaue Eddie had a 1971 quarter on this guitar. Ultimately, there should be software which is better than Neve, SSL, and API put together - and you are seeing hybrid thigns now like the Liquidmix or Urs Channel Strip Pro.

Going back to the original question, if Neves create such magic then why is it so hard to create some demonstration audio files for comparison?

[Bob Yordan]

I 'Nevefied' a mix last night and the difference was major. Used my Vintage Design CL1MK2 compressor.

When I listened to the mix before the procedure, it sounded okay
but not good. After the procedure it sounded great. The instruments
filled out the sound image in a nice big way & got more attitude.

[lostinmusic]

Hi gregohb

The UA and Waves plugins are fine products in their own right but the similarity to the real hardware is complex. The responses may have been modelled or convoluted to a high degree but the ear is very good at detecting subleties.

A real 1073 preamp does something quite unusual to drums, guitars and especially vocals. To repeat what's already been said, it just sits in the mix really well. Somehow bright but smooth, strong mids without being hard and a rich bottom end. About as processed as preamps get so some of the purists understandably don't like them but for many it's a classic design.

There are other classics too - API is one of them - and there'll be times when something else does a better job. Maybe you want an acoustic guitar to be squeaky clean and in your face - a Neve pre with some eq could get you there but a Great River or other would get you there quicker.

In brief, if you want to understand what the fuss is all about, record a vocal with a decent mic (u87, U47, Gefell, Peluso etc etc) into a fairly full track once with a 1073 and then again with any of the other brands you see on these pages. Any high end pre should hopefully sound good in some context but IMO the 1073 pre excells at making sounds sit well with others. I'm sure other people here can name a few other pres that do this as well but few would argue that Neves can. As far as plugins go, buy them because you like how they sound not because of the marketing :-)

Neil.

[peat]

at the studio today
a guy came in with a drum kit
it all sounded fine
cept the kick drum

really loose and flabby and had a massive decay
no amount of tuning/dampening/anything was going to make this ok
i think it had a warped rim

so i thought
oh well ill plug it in and see what it sounds like
AKG D112 into a Neve 33115 pre
turned up the gain, and wow
that kick sounded fantastic
with the eq on the neve, took out some low mids
shelved up the bass a bit, rolled on some highs
and smack
a fantastic kick sound

went back into the room and couldnt believe the difference
sounded like a honky bitch in the live room
and like chad smith's kick in the control room

thats neve