How important is a preamp A/D converter??

davixgt · 22nd June 2007, 07:30 PM

Hello, this is my first post...
I own an Mbox 2, M-Audio Monitors, and work with ProTools 7.1
I only record guitars with my PODxt direct, no amps, or speakers
Lately i've been considering getting an Apogee MiniMe and i was wondering how much difference would it make for this purpose...
I dont record vocals, or mic anything...
Can anyone give me some input??

thanks a lot...
David

rystro · 22nd June 2007, 07:38 PM

To me it doesn't sound like it would benefit you in anyway if you are not recording much analog.

davixgt · 22nd June 2007, 09:04 PM

So for direct recording the preamp/converter on the MBOX does the same thing the Apogee would do?? there would be no difference?? if i would be micing an amp or recording a vocal THEN i would benefit from the Apogee...i see...
thanks a lot for your reply, this opens up my view...

ROCK ON
David

biggun1234 · 22nd June 2007, 09:12 PM

no you will still benefit alot from the apogees pres even if your going direct. When your plugging in direct, the mic pre becomes your instruments pre. If you have some crappy pre, its gunna sound crappy...

rystro · 22nd June 2007, 09:28 PM

Well to me I think it would be well worth this person's money if they put $800 into a mic pre and used the converters on the MBox for what minimal of a setup he is doing - instead of putting $800 to A/D conversion when he's only going to be converting an all-in-one pre-amp.

Yes the Apogee MiniMe will definitely have better converters then the Mbox, and maybe a little bit better of a pre-amp, but not a huge difference.

The MiniMe is going to have a more transparent pre-amp, and if you are only using a POD for guitars its already going to be somewhat of a harsh signal so I would want to run it through a warm pre.

Its all in how you look at it - though I'm no expert.

soundawg · 22nd June 2007, 09:43 PM

Gonna have to dissagree guys. The PODxt is a digital device, and has a USB digital out, so skip all the ad/da coversion bull - stay digital, stash your money until your needs change.

Soundawg

rystro · 22nd June 2007, 09:50 PM

OH... well if the PODxt is digital then screw it... forget the MiniME ad/da conversion bull - as Soundawg noted - and definitely save your cash. Buy some better monitors or something if you got money to burn.

davixgt · 22nd June 2007, 11:48 PM

Thanks a lot guys, this really helps as i make up my mind. I think i will go for the Apogee to warm up the signal from the POD and in case i wanna mic an amp or record something else...The MBox sounds great BTW but i now see the benefits of a good A/D converter and preamp...Iv'e done research and i like the MiniMe and it fits my budget but im wondering what you guys suggest on the same price range ($800)

soundawg · 23rd June 2007, 12:16 AM

Hmmm, you seem to have changed your original direction here.

I still recomend saving your cash in a gear fund until you are 'missing' something.

At this point you are not recording with a mic right?

Gear changes, improves, and comes down in price every day - so wait till you NEED it.

Besides - to go direct from the POD you would want to BYPASS the whatever preamp you may have - ok there are no rules and ayone can do anything - but your POD is a preamp, and going from one preamp into another preamp is shall we say 'not generally done'.

I also don't think you get a discernable warmer sound by using the mini... and you will have taken on two unnecessary conversions (da from the pod ad from the mini).

Your POD is already digital - you no need to convert!

I have read that a number of POD owners believe that their POD sounds much better without using its convertors, and just using the digital connection straight into the computer with no conversion.

At the very least you should try this first - and if you want to warm things up a little - fiddle with your tone controls.

Soundawg

juicylime · 23rd June 2007, 12:24 AM

If you're looking for something to warm up your POD gor for the Groove Tubes The Brick. That's what I use for the same purpose, works great.

davixgt · 23rd June 2007, 01:05 AM

Alright...thanks a lot for your responses, I'll research on the Groove Tubes DI...

ROCK ON
David

Dyer Maker · 23rd June 2007, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davixgt

Thanks a lot guys, this really helps as i make up my mind. I think i will go for the Apogee to warm up the signal from the POD and in case i wanna mic an amp or record something else...The MBox sounds great BTW but i now see the benefits of a good A/D converter and preamp...Iv'e done research and i like the MiniMe and it fits my budget but im wondering what you guys suggest on the same price range ($800)

If you are recording guitars with a Pod and you want the signal to be "warm" at all, its going to take a lot more than some apogee converters. I dislike Pods in every way imaginable, but if you are going to use one I strongly suggest you stay digital to avoid further degradation with the low grade converters on the Pod.

flail19 · 23rd June 2007, 04:15 AM

Forget A/D. For mixing you may benefit from a good D/A converter. The MBox, IMHO, has marginal at best conversion. So, I'm thinking Apogee Mini-DAC might fit your bill.

redstudio · 23rd June 2007, 04:43 AM

ha ha... so many thoughts and different inputs..

I'd pick up an Xbox and drop the guitar...

no just kidding...

HAHA

davixgt · 23rd June 2007, 05:13 PM

JEJE...

ROCK ON
David

ScumBum · 23rd June 2007, 08:05 PM

I have an 002 & a pod so my setup is similar to yours & I've messed around recording direct guitar different ways .

When I record my SG guitar - pod - api512 - then 002 , the guitar sound is twice as phat or even more then if I used the 002 pres . So getting a high end pre will make a huge difference ! And thats still using the Digi converters , If you get a good converter the sound will be much clearer ,

A High End pre should be first on your list , then a good converter ,

davixgt · 25th June 2007, 07:45 PM

Well, i made up my mind and bought the Groobe Tubes Brick...thanks a lot for your responses as it really helped me make up my mind...next i will try to get another one, for stereo, sound, and then maybe an Apogee MiniDac...
Hey MushroomKingdom, when you go from your preamp to the 002, are you using the Preamps on the 002 or one of the nonpreamp inputs??

Thanks guys
ROCK ON
David

Ahrue · 21st July 2007, 05:50 AM

Spend your money on a nice warm tube instrument pre that goes BEFORE the PODxt. That is the best way to warm up your guitar signal. You can use the SPDIF outs of the XT into your MBox. DUH

darkman2 · 21st July 2007, 05:32 PM

i just paired my lonely mbox with an api a2d running spdf and

man its the best thing i could have done my music sounds no much better

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
How important is Digital Out on a Preamp?	deuce42	So much gear, so little time!	3	6th April 2007 09:46 AM
Upgrade preamp or converter?	corn55	So much gear, so little time!	5	25th November 2006 01:56 AM
Serius preamp, converter setup?	lagoausente	High end	1	24th September 2006 01:26 PM
More important: Preamp or EQ?	rids	High end	11	14th February 2006 12:29 PM
Converter or Preamp?	Steamy Williams	So much gear, so little time!	5	14th March 2004 01:10 AM

22nd June 2007, 07:30 PM	#1
davixgt Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12	How important is a preamp A/D converter?? Hello, this is my first post... I own an Mbox 2, M-Audio Monitors, and work with ProTools 7.1 I only record guitars with my PODxt direct, no amps, or speakers Lately i've been considering getting an Apogee MiniMe and i was wondering how much difference would it make for this purpose... I dont record vocals, or mic anything... Can anyone give me some input?? thanks a lot... David

22nd June 2007, 09:43 PM	#6
soundawg Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Surrey BC Posts: 449	Gonna have to dissagree guys. The PODxt is a digital device, and has a USB digital out, so skip all the ad/da coversion bull - stay digital, stash your money until your needs change. Soundawg __________________ If it takes sixteen and a half pancakes to shingle a dog... ...how long would it take for a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kik the seeds out of a dill pickle?

23rd June 2007, 12:16 AM	#9
soundawg Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Surrey BC Posts: 449	Hmmm, you seem to have changed your original direction here. I still recomend saving your cash in a gear fund until you are 'missing' something. At this point you are not recording with a mic right? Gear changes, improves, and comes down in price every day - so wait till you NEED it. Besides - to go direct from the POD you would want to BYPASS the whatever preamp you may have - ok there are no rules and ayone can do anything - but your POD is a preamp, and going from one preamp into another preamp is shall we say 'not generally done'. I also don't think you get a discernable warmer sound by using the mini... and you will have taken on two unnecessary conversions (da from the pod ad from the mini). Your POD is already digital - you no need to convert! I have read that a number of POD owners believe that their POD sounds much better without using its convertors, and just using the digital connection straight into the computer with no conversion. At the very least you should try this first - and if you want to warm things up a little - fiddle with your tone controls. Soundawg __________________ If it takes sixteen and a half pancakes to shingle a dog... ...how long would it take for a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kik the seeds out of a dill pickle?

23rd June 2007, 12:24 AM	#10
juicylime Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 705	If you're looking for something to warm up your POD gor for the Groove Tubes The Brick. That's what I use for the same purpose, works great. __________________ Saved. By the buoyancy of citrus. Juicylime is seeking a Blueberry to complete his fruit themed studio. If you have one for sale PM me.

22nd June 2007, 07:38 PM	#2
rystro Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 317	To me it doesn't sound like it would benefit you in anyway if you are not recording much analog.

22nd June 2007, 09:04 PM	#3
davixgt Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12	So for direct recording the preamp/converter on the MBOX does the same thing the Apogee would do?? there would be no difference?? if i would be micing an amp or recording a vocal THEN i would benefit from the Apogee...i see... thanks a lot for your reply, this opens up my view... ROCK ON David

22nd June 2007, 09:12 PM	#4
biggun1234 Gear Head Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 70	no you will still benefit alot from the apogees pres even if your going direct. When your plugging in direct, the mic pre becomes your instruments pre. If you have some crappy pre, its gunna sound crappy...

22nd June 2007, 09:28 PM	#5
rystro Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 317	Well to me I think it would be well worth this person's money if they put $800 into a mic pre and used the converters on the MBox for what minimal of a setup he is doing - instead of putting $800 to A/D conversion when he's only going to be converting an all-in-one pre-amp. Yes the Apogee MiniMe will definitely have better converters then the Mbox, and maybe a little bit better of a pre-amp, but not a huge difference. The MiniMe is going to have a more transparent pre-amp, and if you are only using a POD for guitars its already going to be somewhat of a harsh signal so I would want to run it through a warm pre. Its all in how you look at it - though I'm no expert.

22nd June 2007, 09:50 PM	#7
rystro Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 317	OH... well if the PODxt is digital then screw it... forget the MiniME ad/da conversion bull - as Soundawg noted - and definitely save your cash. Buy some better monitors or something if you got money to burn.

22nd June 2007, 11:48 PM	#8
davixgt Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12	Thanks a lot guys, this really helps as i make up my mind. I think i will go for the Apogee to warm up the signal from the POD and in case i wanna mic an amp or record something else...The MBox sounds great BTW but i now see the benefits of a good A/D converter and preamp...Iv'e done research and i like the MiniMe and it fits my budget but im wondering what you guys suggest on the same price range ($800)

23rd June 2007, 01:05 AM	#11
davixgt Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12	Alright...thanks a lot for your responses, I'll research on the Groove Tubes DI... ROCK ON David

23rd June 2007, 04:15 AM	#13
flail19 Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 750	Forget A/D. For mixing you may benefit from a good D/A converter. The MBox, IMHO, has marginal at best conversion. So, I'm thinking Apogee Mini-DAC might fit your bill. __________________ Singer, Songwriter, Musician.............Dad. "You're so money and you don't even know it!"

23rd June 2007, 04:43 AM	#14
redstudio Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 121	ha ha... so many thoughts and different inputs.. I'd pick up an Xbox and drop the guitar... no just kidding... HAHA

23rd June 2007, 05:13 PM	#15
davixgt Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12	JEJE... ROCK ON David

23rd June 2007, 08:05 PM	#16
ScumBum Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Fransisco , BayArea Posts: 477	I have an 002 & a pod so my setup is similar to yours & I've messed around recording direct guitar different ways . When I record my SG guitar - pod - api512 - then 002 , the guitar sound is twice as phat or even more then if I used the 002 pres . So getting a high end pre will make a huge difference ! And thats still using the Digi converters , If you get a good converter the sound will be much clearer , A High End pre should be first on your list , then a good converter ,

25th June 2007, 07:45 PM	#17
davixgt Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12	Well, i made up my mind and bought the Groobe Tubes Brick...thanks a lot for your responses as it really helped me make up my mind...next i will try to get another one, for stereo, sound, and then maybe an Apogee MiniDac... Hey MushroomKingdom, when you go from your preamp to the 002, are you using the Preamps on the 002 or one of the nonpreamp inputs?? Thanks guys ROCK ON David

21st July 2007, 05:50 AM	#18
Ahrue Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 26	STAY DIGITAL Spend your money on a nice warm tube instrument pre that goes BEFORE the PODxt. That is the best way to warm up your guitar signal. You can use the SPDIF outs of the XT into your MBox. DUH

21st July 2007, 05:32 PM	#19
darkman2 Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: montserrat w.i. Posts: 114	i just paired my lonely mbox with an api a2d running spdf and man its the best thing i could have done my music sounds no much better

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread: