What are you charging for songwriting?

[BlueRadio]

I have written an original rock song for an up-and-coming cell phone company, and am really wondering what to charge.

I plan to charge my hourly rate for the recording of the song (drums, guitars, ect...), but I am a little stuck on what to charge for selling the rights to the song.

What do you sell a song like this for, if you aren't looking to take royalties? Assuming that the song is highly accepted and liked by the client?

Thanks guys.

[herecomesyourman]

Somebody stop me here if I'm wrong...but you shouldn't SELL your publishing rights to the song.

Maybe negotiate a deal for the Master recording. But make sure they know that they'll have to negotiate a publishing deal with you and pay you royalties for the use on top of that.

[Tone Obsessed]

Rather than conveying all rights as in a “work-for-hire”, it would be better for you to retain all ownership rights in and to your music and simply license the rights to the cell phone company. Simple deal.

FYI: Try to license your music for use in only the initial SKU, phone model, system version or the like. Since they constantly upgrade, keep the door open.

ALSO, if the music is successful and ported to other systems or versions, or if there were demand for your music in these subsequent versions, under the licensing scenario the cell phone company would be required to come back to you to license further rights.

If there is an expectation that this will take place, you can always negotiate license fees for subsequent use of music in later versions or systems. Such a circumstance is called an “option.” You would grant the cell phone company the option to use music under certain terms in the future – and it is up to the publisher to “exercise the option” – when it is ready to do so (if ever). Each subsequent use should require a cash payment at the time the option is exercised.

As both the copyright owner and composer of the music, I recommend registering each composition with your performing rights society (ASCAP or BMI). If the music were to be used in television commercials, for example, you may earn performing income.

Your music is intellectual property that you have created. When you make a deal for it, be sure you are fairly compensated for your time, creativity, and talent. The cell phone company needs music for the project. Accordingly, you are, in effect, financing the musical element.

Licensing, rather than granting broad ownership rights, when there is little or no up-front money, is a good way to maintain control of your work and hold onto rights that could pay off in the future.

I speak from experience.

FYI: EVERYTIME I come across an issue like this, I'm reminded of Walter Werzowa who wrote the "Intel Chimes". D♭ G♭ D♭ A♭ is played once every five minutes somewhere around the world and in a recent interview, Walter stated he's made "Millions of dollars" from those 3 seconds.

Good luck,

TJ

[herecomesyourman]

Tone Obsessed is right on the money.

In theory you also want to send a copy of the tune to the Library of Congress with a form.

[DeathMonkey]

Originally Posted by Tone Obsessed

FYI: EVERYTIME I come across an issue like this, I'm reminded of Walter Werzowa who wrote the "Intel Chimes". D♭ G♭ D♭ A♭ is played once every five minutes somewhere around the world and in a recent interview, Walter stated he's made "Millions of dollars" from those 3 seconds.

Good luck,

TJ

A buddy of mine was the voice that yelled "SEGA!" in those older commercials, and bought a house with that damn paycheck.

[BlueRadio]

Originally Posted by herecomesyourman

Tone Obsessed is right on the money.

In theory you also want to send a copy of the tune to the Library of Congress with a form.

Where can I get these forms?

I really don't know where to begin with the legal ramifications of liscensing this song...

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

Where can I get these forms?

I really don't know where to begin with the legal ramifications of liscensing this song...

I would begin with an entertainment lawyer.

Clearly you are over your head and shouldn't be taking advice from an audio gear forum.

Although, if you take my advice than that's exactly what you're doing.

Good luck

[Mosby]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I would begin with an entertainment lawyer.

Clearly you are over your head and shouldn't be taking advice from an audio gear forum.

Although, if you take my advice than that's exactly what you're doing.

Good luck

+1



Although I will add that some companies don't like to licence the music - they like to pay the fee up front and get it out of the way.

Do some research. Do more research. Call an entertainment lawyer.

[herecomesyourman]

Yeah you should take their contract to an entertainment lawyer and change it up...

It's a SR form at the library of congree website. You send that...$45 bucks...and a copy of the tune.

How did you land this gig with no experience?

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by herecomesyourman

Somebody stop me here if I'm wrong...but you shouldn't SELL your publishing rights to the song.

Maybe negotiate a deal for the Master recording. But make sure they know that they'll have to negotiate a publishing deal with you and pay you royalties for the use on top of that.

totally agree! you can get money for the track.
Anyway for what do u need the track?
The idea is to get money when is on radio and TV.
Only if you REALLY consider is a great song an artist could sing....in the feature...but really artists would not sing a song that was a jingle!!

Originally Posted by Tone Obsessed

Rather than conveying all rights as in a “work-for-hire”, it would be better for you to retain all ownership rights in and to your music and simply license the rights to the cell phone company. Simple deal.

FYI: Try to license your music for use in only the initial SKU, phone model, system version or the like. Since they constantly upgrade, keep the door open.

ALSO, if the music is successful and ported to other systems or versions, or if there were demand for your music in these subsequent versions, under the licensing scenario the cell phone company would be required to come back to you to license further rights.

If there is an expectation that this will take place, you can always negotiate license fees for subsequent use of music in later versions or systems. Such a circumstance is called an “option.” You would grant the cell phone company the option to use music under certain terms in the future – and it is up to the publisher to “exercise the option” – when it is ready to do so (if ever). Each subsequent use should require a cash payment at the time the option is exercised.

As both the copyright owner and composer of the music, I recommend registering each composition with your performing rights society (ASCAP or BMI). If the music were to be used in television commercials, for example, you may earn performing income.

Your music is intellectual property that you have created. When you make a deal for it, be sure you are fairly compensated for your time, creativity, and talent. The cell phone company needs music for the project. Accordingly, you are, in effect, financing the musical element.

Licensing, rather than granting broad ownership rights, when there is little or no up-front money, is a good way to maintain control of your work and hold onto rights that could pay off in the future.

I speak from experience.

FYI: EVERYTIME I come across an issue like this, I'm reminded of Walter Werzowa who wrote the "Intel Chimes". D? G? D? A? is played once every five minutes somewhere around the world and in a recent interview, Walter stated he's made "Millions of dollars" from those 3 seconds.

Good luck,

TJ

that is a great advice too! you can control everything ..and get a nice "advance" for the near future....be sure that the license period is short period and the amount of money you can get is fair.

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I would begin with an entertainment lawyer.

Clearly you are over your head and shouldn't be taking advice from an audio gear forum.

Although, if you take my advice than that's exactly what you're doing.

Good luck

I would do that!
You can find an attorney that would cash your money...get a % that never would be more than a publisher...but you have 2 o 3 advantages:

1-his fee as an attorney is included..because he pays himself with the % pf what you collect basicly would be 10-20%
2- he will work for your benefit and you have an attorney..the publishers are not so good...they work for theirself.

3- very possible that you will end up paying less to the attorney(never more) than to a publisher...and anyway if you go to a publisher you always have to have an attorney to review that agreement!! and that cost money

So go to an attorney! you collect more money, you have the attorney behind you and you do not have to pay any fee for that work..just give him a porcentage to him.

***Now many people want to avoid publisher o somebody to cash the money(EX Attorneys)...Most of them fail to cash the money theirself ... they do not take you serious without an attorney.

[bpatural]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

I plan to charge my hourly rate for the recording of the song (drums, guitars, ect...), but I am a little stuck on what to charge for selling the rights to the song.

Don't charge for studio time or playing...they will in a sense then own the master recording. Much better to license the master to them as a finished work for a flat fee. Since you're writing songs you should talk to BMI or Ascap about setting up a publishing company as well.
-Brian