dynamic range on converters

[frist44]

It's easy to get caught up in specs when you don't have the opportunity to try pieces of gear first hand.

My question is about the specified dynamic range on a/d converters. The older apogee rosetta boasted a dynamic range of 120 dB and the newer one says 114 dB. Does this characteristic mean anything, and if so, why is it less now?

Just curious. I would test it before I bought. I would doubt the newer version would sound work than the older one, but I'm just trying to understand how that number fits into conversion.

Brandon

a figure of 114 db is nothing to worry about. brownian motion of molecules inside a wire is down in that range... anyone know for sure what it is? something like -130db. i guess -130 is still quieter, but its really quiet. 114 db of range is probably way more than any of your preamps, compressors, mics, etc.

[nlc201]

keep in mind that most average analog gear is around 80-90. The only difference in 114 dB to 120 dB would be a more accurate rendering of mic pre noise. 110 is usually a norm for modern 24-bit converters. This all goes out the window when you add dither a when you make a CD anyway. This spec has little use to me. It really says nothing about the sonic quality of the conversion and at 24-bit is mooooooooot....

i like that way of explaining it... "more accurate rendering of mic pre noise"

[Bob Olhsson]

The real issues are artifacts that mask things, clock stability and "dynamic ease" for the lack of any better term for "balls."

Dynamic range is pretty meaningless in my experience.

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Bob Olhsson:
"dynamic ease" for the lack of any better term for "balls."

???

Bob, I have to ask, confessing to be not familiar with that term "dynamic ease."

It certainly sounds intriguing.

Thanks in advance.

[jpaudio]

I don't mean to put words in Bob's mouth, and I might be way off, but I think he's referring to dynamics that cut thru clearly versus dynamics which are veiled or masked by the conversion process...

[Boogle]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
The real issues are artifacts that mask things, clock stability and "dynamic ease" for the lack of any better term for "balls."

Dynamic range is pretty meaningless in my experience.

quite true. if I remember right my old Motu 1296 boasted dynamic db range very close to my lavrys- nuff said.

[Buddhaman]

a figure of 114 db is nothing to worry about. brownian motion of molecules inside a wire is down in that range... anyone know for sure what it is? something like -130db. i guess -130 is still quieter, but its really quiet. 114 db of range is probably way more than any of your preamps, compressors, mics, etc.

Ok---thats all well and good and scientific and all...but so what.

We should be talking about dynamic range of a converter as indicative of the overall quality of the converter...I have found converters that boast a 117db-120db dynamic range (Panasonic AD96, LYNXTWO) to have a better stereo image and truer conversion than others....

This may not be because of the dyn range specs, but those specs may indicate that the converter is gonna do a better OVERALL job.

keep in mind that most average analog gear is around 80-90. The only difference in 114 dB to 120 dB would be a more accurate rendering of mic pre noise. 110 is usually a norm for modern 24-bit converters. This all goes out the window when you add dither a when you make a CD anyway. This spec has little use to me. It really says nothing about the sonic quality of the conversion and at 24-bit is mooooooooot....

Bullshit---comparing analog and digital measurements are like comparing wave and particle physics....wave properties (analog) are perceived as being very different than particle properties (digital)---the fact that an MAUDIO converter has a DYN Range measurement of 110 and 2"tape and an old trident board is 80-90 doesn't tell me a thing about the imaging and overall quality of the audio. I think the DYN range measurement is only truly useful when comparing different DIGITAL converters...

Does anyone know about the different Dynamic Range measurements (A weighted, etc...) that might account for the older apogees showing 120Db and newer converters only 114-117dB (different baseline and scale??)
Does a better clock factor into better Dynamic Range???

My $.02
Buddhaman

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by Buddhaman

Does a better clock factor into better Dynamic Range???

It shouldn't. Clock should only affect jitter.

Bullshit---comparing analog and digital measurements are like comparing wave and particle physics....wave properties (analog) are perceived as being very different than particle properties (digital)---the fact that an MAUDIO converter has a DYN Range measurement of 110 and 2"tape and an old trident board is 80-90 doesn't tell me a thing about the imaging and overall quality of the audio. I think the DYN range measurement is only truly useful when comparing different DIGITAL conv

the point was simply that if you have any analog gear running with 80-90db of range, then anyrange your converters can resolve beyond that will simply be the noise floor of your gear. at least on the a/d side of things.

i dont think it was meant as any sort of comparison.