Gettin that hi hat

[j-uk]

Hey,

In a couple of weeks I'm recording drums for an artist. I'd like to get that "separated" hi hat sound like you can hear on albums like Rumors and Thriller and so on.
I' recently tried to use a drum pad and then overdubbing with a real hat but wasn't really happy with the result.
I will probably try and diy a separator ala Bruce Swedien but appreciate any other tips or tricks.

Cheers

Johan

[Rickard]

A piece of foam with a small hole, around the snare mic (sm57 my choice), mic aimed away from the hat and toward center of snare as much as possible and an expander on the snare. The foam is probably the least effective of these suggestions.

Dean

[absrec]

Originally Posted by j-uk

Hey,

In a couple of weeks I'm recording drums for an artist. I'd like to get that "separated" hi hat sound like you can hear on albums like Rumors and Thriller and so on.

Keep in mind that the recordings you are referring to were close miced and generally a pretty dead, dry drum sound.

This is probably the key. You don't want to use any room mics. Try using something like an AKG 451 if you can get your hands on it. Also, make sure your preamp is pretty open with lots of headroom. That sound is all about the transient of the hat.

One more thing. In order to achieve this kind of separation, you will want to make sure you're not eqing a lot of 8k - 10k into the snare as this will make the snare and the hat occupy similar frequency ranges which in turn will make them sound less seperated.

-Aaron

[chrisj]

What kind of hi-hat is it? I get that sound in the room from Zildjian A Custom Mastersounds- if I'm playing them just right.

I have a hunch that you should be able to hear the quality you want in the overheads or you're in trouble...

[Mike Caffrey]

Do use any compression on any of the drum mics. Don't use room mics and keep the overheads pretty low over the cymbals.

A dedad room may help.


Keep in mind you're not going for an "isolated" sound, you're going for a distinct sound. You don't need isolation to get the result you want.

[stevep]

If the drummer gives you the tight sound you can capture it with the methods above, if he is wailing on an open hat no hope






.

[u b k]

don't be fooled, there's actually a generous amount of verb on the live hats on thriller, long tail stuff not usually heard on cymbals these days. the 480 didn't come out until somewhere around 86, so i'm gonna guess it was a 224 but for all i know it could be a real plate, it's so tucked in to the mixes.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[WEAPON_X]

first things first, there is no seperation in a drum kit, when you have the view that it is a single instrument consisting from various drums, metals, rattles and buzzes.
i think in that way. however, i would like to have a fairly isolated hihat, too.

but whatever *you* do, can just be based on what the drummer does. especially younger rock-metal drummers have no idea of getting a balanced sound out of their kit. this is IMHO due to two facts - they listen to records where the drums are perfect, without knowing that it is first and foremost the drummer - not the recording engineer - or the studio processing (anyone up for a round of beatdetective, sound replacer, trigger....), who can mantra like repeat over and over again to hit the cymbals fairly and controlled; but as soon as the drummer boy starts - he is beating the crap out of his whole set. and gone is your seperation. sometimes giving the drummer much lighter metals is helping a lot, but most drummers want to record their kit - which is often layed out to be ****ing loud (for live ...) but not recording. if their is no lighter set of metal - uh....problems ahead
secondly, the acoustic perspective from the drummers view is a very different one than the one from the listener. most not-that-much expirienced drummers do not take that into account.

giving the drummer extremly much hihat into the headphone mix often helps to tame the bashing down plus trying to shield the mics as much as possible, but sometimes all that is in vain.
if that, just go with what you have, and try to make the best out of it. life is not perfect, and on the other hand - the sound of a kit is the spilling, bleeding and rattling. try to make that work for your advantage. ...

i would like to read more of the other fellows' opinions, too....

[marchhare]

I posted this on here a long time ago, but I think I'll do it again.
I used to track a lot of live drums, with a lot of different drummers.
The one thing that always tortured me was getting the hihat's
to be separate and out of the snare mic. One day I stumbled
upon an interview in EQ magazine w/ Darryl Swan, who produced
Macy Gray. He would take a pop filter and put a wool ski cap over it
and position it between the hats and the snare mic. It works really
well, I'm glad I read. That said, too many drummers hit their cymbals
way too hard, and their kick & snare not hard enough. Other than
the ski cap trick, try and get the drummer to move his/her/its hihat
stand higher and further from the rest of the kit, and, by all means,
stop hitting them so hard.

[Mike Caffrey]

Or punch them in their right shoulder to weaken in right before the take.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Or punch them in their right shoulder to weaken in right before the take.

I've had this done, but I'm left-handed. So I punched the AE in the ear.

[UPRYZ]

Originally Posted by Jax

I've had this done, but I'm left-handed. So I punched the AE in the ear.

that give me the best cackle of the day

[CommunityMart]

Put a '57 on it and put a sock in it.

(Sorry)

[u b k]

here's the unrelenting truth of it:

stand a few feet away from the kit and have the drummer play for a minute or so. listen to how it sounds, listen to the balances, the tones, the feel.

no matter what you do, that's pretty much how your recording is going to sound.


gregoire
del
ubk
.