Distorted Guitar: How important is Neve/API color?

[Darkening]

When tracking distorted guitars for rock music, how important do you feel the preamp is?

Obviously, the player > guitar > amp > mic placement will constitute 90% of the sound, but how necessary is using an API or Neve to getting those full, rich tones?

I'd like to be able to achieve happy results using a stock 002 pre, but I'm beginning to think that I'm trying to pet a rattlesnake.

I want to get a lunchbox and either a GR, Purple Biz, or API in there to start with. I want to be happy. I want to have a good life. Part of me says that my quality of life will improve with one of those pres for tracking guitars, and part of me says that I need to work harder with what I have. The other part of me says I can't afford it, so I have to buy a pair of shoes along with it, if I do...

Thoughts? Suggestions? Revelations? Flames? Haikus?

[3rd world order]

start with the pre that says BAD MOTHER ****ER on it.. chandler germ.

other than that your question is pretty much impossible to answer...

[NathanEldred]

Just my 2 cents, but I personally think the more color from the preamp the better. I'm not a big fan of just 'hearing it in the room' on amps...or more specifically they need a bit of tweaking and color to come across with the power that they have in the room when they are pushing air. This is just my experience, but a colorful preamp is one very key part in all of this. Usually followed by a colorful compressor (even if just in bypass for the transformer character), and I find tape beneficial too. If no tape, then something like the DSP on a HEDD or a 'tape saturation' plug in moderation can even help. The art of recording guitar amps is definitely one place where the right gear does matter IMHO. Good luck.

[Protools Guy]

On a scale from 1-10 with 1 being least important and 10 being most important, my opinion is that it's about a 3. There are tons of multi-platinum albums that have been recorded without Neve or API. In fact, Guns & Roses first album was recorded on a Trident.
Bottom line for me is that the guitar, amp, and player are WAY more important than the mic pre.

[Darkening]

The Trident has a great color of it's own, doesn't it?

Don't most boards color the sound quite a bit?

I can't afford any board, but I can afford a couple preamps.

The question wasn't regarding Neve/API only. These are simply the best known choices and probably the most heard, so they serve as examples of what someone might choose to use in the specified application.

I'm curious if it is possible to get a good sounding track using the 002 pres. I've done a lot of experimenting, but the tracks never sound as creamy or euphonic (if that's the right freakin' word!) as stuff I hear coming from people using lunchbox's or Neve type stuff.

[Darkening]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Just my 2 cents, but I personally think the more color from the preamp the better.

they need a bit of tweaking and color to come across with the power that they have in the room when they are pushing air. This is just my experience, but a colorful preamp is one very key part in all of this.

The art of recording guitar amps is definitely one place where the right gear does matter IMHO.

Thanks! I am starting to feel that way too, only because I can't achieve anything that knocks me out. Looking for validation...

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Darkening

The Trident has a great color of it's own, doesn't it?

Sure does...not sure what console GNR was on, but if it was on an A Range or even an 80B, lots of color there...and to tape too. That album is very rich IMO.

[Unclenny]

I love my tiny little Trident 4T strip. Love the color it adds to my DI bass and my keys.......and my guit tracks.

[kcmoonshine]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Sure does...not sure what console GNR was on, but if it was on an A Range or even an 80B, lots of color there...and to tape too. That album is very rich IMO.

It was the Trident 80C at Rumbo in Canoga Park. I did some recording in that room quite a few years back. Yes, very nice and colored sounding.

But to answer your question. The 002 pres are actually quite colored. Fiddle with different mics and placement until you are satisfied. There are probably a lot of mid priced mic pres that you could try. I really like those older TL Audio Dual Valve pres. It's basically like a Mackie pre with a tube, but when you crank the input and hit that tube hard you can get some nice balls and color. Then it really comes down to who's playing the guitar. You are always going to sound like yourself.

[Protools Guy]

Right you are Kevin!
Appetite was recorded in the B room on the Trident 80C at Rumbo Recorders (owned at the time by Captain & Tennille (SP?)) in Canoga Park, CA.
Yes, the Trident's pres do have some color, but I stand by my statement that the guitar, amp, and player are 95% of the tone.
Before you spend the $$ on that last 5%, make sure that the other 95% are right.

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by Darkening

When tracking distorted guitars for rock music, how important do you feel the preamp is?

Obviously, the player > guitar > amp > mic placement will constitute 90% of the sound, but how necessary is using an API or Neve to getting those full, rich tones?

I'd like to be able to achieve happy results using a stock 002 pre, but I'm beginning to think that I'm trying to pet a rattlesnake.

I want to get a lunchbox and either a GR, Purple Biz, or API in there to start with. I want to be happy. I want to have a good life. Part of me says that my quality of life will improve with one of those pres for tracking guitars, and part of me says that I need to work harder with what I have. The other part of me says I can't afford it, so I have to buy a pair of shoes along with it, if I do...

Thoughts? Suggestions? Revelations? Flames? Haikus?

I'm not a big fan of color on my guitar tone - I have searched years for the tone I've always heard in my head and I've finally got it. I don't want ANYTHING - mics or otherwise - augmenting it.

Give me neutral mics (AKG 414 or EV RE-55/PL9/DO-54) on my cab and neutral settings on my board and I'm happy-happy-HAPPY!

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by Protools Guy

Right you are Kevin!
*snip*
Yes, the Trident's pres do have some color, but I stand by my statement that the guitar, amp, and player are 95% of the tone.
Before you spend the $$ on that last 5%, make sure that the other 95% are right.

You are absolutely correct and well-said.

If you have one weak link in that 95%, that last 5% won't be able to cover it up.

[kcmoonshine]

Originally Posted by Protools Guy

the guitar, amp, and player are 95% of the tone.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[Brad McGowan]

I agree that most of the sound comes from the player, the instrument, the amp, the speakers, and decent mic placement. The preamp is like icing on the cake. I personally like Pacifica icing (no pad). I find myself spending way more time swapping out amps and speaker cabs to get the right sound than I do messing with preamps. I'm so fanatically about guitar tones that I build the amps I need to get the sounds I want. Although once you have all that other stuff in place then it does help to get some transformer saturation happening from your mic preamp.

Brad

[Absolute]

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

I'm not a big fan of color on my guitar tone - I have searched years for the tone I've always heard in my head and I've finally got it. I don't want ANYTHING - mics or otherwise - augmenting it.

Give me neutral mics (AKG 414 or EV RE-55/PL9/DO-54) on my cab and neutral settings on my board and I'm happy-happy-HAPPY!

Good counterpoint

Because here's the thing. If I have my perfect guitar tone..I dont want a preamp changing what I have.

So with Colored preamps, Tape, or what ever--if they are used--then that means something is deficient in my sound

If my amp sound is chewy enough--I dont want an api making it more chewy. If its crisp enough..I dont need a neve making it more crisp(Please note Im talkng a strictly a non eq'd take). If Im gonna fiddle with the lunch box eq then you can make the "color" moot with a turn of the dial.

I say all of this just to highlight that none of these preamps are gonna hurt you--in fact they are big assets. But the thought that you NEED them for guitar is just wrong. You need them if your sound needs their specific color--and even then-- it a stretch to think they will solve your problems because they are not the cause of a good guitar sound.

To me, its about 1% of the sound. More, if the sound is bad.