beefing up guitar tone

[mikemillinator]

I've been trying to get some good tracks out of a Krank for quite some time now using a shure sm-57. The amp is a rev.1 out of a krankenstein cab and I'm kinda dissapointed with this amp. It has a very thin tone. It's definately not worth the price, but does anybody have any suggestions on how I could possibly thicken up the tone? Compressors??? Anything? I'm runnin' out of ideas. Thanks.

[Kyle S]

i used to record with a super shitty amp. I would just record a clean track to go alongside of the distorted track. The low end will be much fuller in the clean track and compliment the thin distortion on the other.

[mikemillinator]

cool. I'll give it a try. I see your from the bham area. That's cool. I'm down here in gadsden.

[SLy_drums]

Use a Tube Screamer. Maxon OD-808 is killer for this. You'll have a more compressed and thicker tone for sure. Andy Sneap uses a lot of it.

[mikemillinator]

sweet! Thanks.

[Kyle S]

hey mike. nice to see another gearslut in Al. I remember when those Krank amp came out. I was on harmony central alot back in those days and they were so hyped up at first. Since then Ive heard more bad than good.

try the clean thing. but id also try lowering the gain slightly and just doubling. youd be surprised at the tone if you have never done it this way. mids are also your friend.

beyond that on the guitar side you have string gauge (which might bring the amp alive) and pickups etc.

i usually try pretty hard to avoid EQing in post but it always happens just not in large amounts.

as for the sm57, try placing it closer to the center (cone) of the speaker, but not all the way (like an inch from the cone), then angleing it towards the dust cap (edge). So at this point its facing at the spot in between more or less. there should be a warmer tone in there somewhere depnding on how your micing it up now.

[marshallplexi]

I really like this amp for the heavier stuff...

How loud do you set the volume ??

Turn the gain down and turn up the volume around 12'oclock (at least).
That's the only way you'll get tone... You may also consider to change the preamp tube in position V1 (i personally love the JJ ECC83s).

To record, take the time to place your 57. When you're happy with that try to put a 421 on the cab to get more texture (same thing, can take 2 minutes or 2 hours).

Voila !

[Unclenny]

You might try sticking a Dyna-Comp in front of that TS-808.

[mikemillinator]

Originally Posted by marshallplexi

I really like this amp for the heavier stuff...

How loud do you set the volume ??

Turn the gain down and turn up the volume around 12'oclock (at least).
That's the only way you'll get tone... You may also consider to change the preamp tube in position V1 (i personally love the JJ ECC83s).

To record, take the time to place your 57. When you're happy with that try to put a 421 on the cab to get more texture (same thing, can take 2 minutes or 2 hours).

Voila !

I keep my volume around 12 oclock or higher. Gain is at a decent level. Nothing rediculous. The amp just has a thin tone and I absolutely hate it. I may just need to sell the damn thing and get a different amp. I'm gonna try a tube overdrive pedal though. I've heard this does beef up the tone.

[nandoanalog]

Engl, bogner,hiwatt, marshall, orange, mesa, vox, diezel, soldano, fender..............

Endless brands of great amplifiers all over the world. And you had to buy a Krank....

[mikemillinator]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

Engl, bogner,hiwatt, marshall, orange, mesa, vox, diezel, soldano, fender..............

Endless brands of great amplifiers all over the world. And you had to buy a Krank....

Well they actually endorsed my band so it wasn't like I really REALLY wanted a krank, it was just convenient at the time. After quitting the band. I'm left with 2 krank rev 1's and 3 krankenstein cabs. time to sell sell sell.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

You might try sticking a Dyna-Comp in front of that TS-808.

I'm sorry but that will make the sound even thinner.


To mikemillinator:

It might sound obvious but the only way to improve this here situation is to get another amp. If you're investing money in recording gear (and obviously you did otherwise you wouldn't be here) then it goes without saying that you also should have some decent amps. Rent or borrow something and compare it to your setup.

Though I'm no big fan of amp modelers it's also true that something like Guitar Rig will give you 'instant access' to some very good sounds that might beat a shitty but 'real' amp. Yes, I don't think that modelers are as good as a great amp with a great player captured by good engineer but the opposite is also true: A bad amp will sound bad no matter what you do.

If the sound is good though but somewhat thin then a ribbon mic might be the solution. If you can afford it, get a Beyer M160, that mic is fantastic and very smooth, warm but still present sounding.

Also don't underestimate the room. It's often said that the room doesn't matter with close-miked loud guitars but that's not true IMO. Experiment with the mic distance and angle, if you're recording yourself then get a loop going and search for the best spot while adjusting the mic with headphones.

Good luck.

[marshallplexi]

I am not that familiar with the Kankenstein Cabs... For recording i usually use a pair of Bogner Cubes 1x12 Vintage 30 spkr. Well hang on, first do you like the sound coming out of the amp BEFORE tracking ? I'm just trying to find out where the problem is in the chain... I've used the Rev several times playing it and recording it and i liked it much more over a Recto or a 5150... I don't think putting a TS808 or anything else will help you... I wouldn't turn the gain more than 10'oclock for rythm tracks and Turn the volume up. If you are already doing that, the best thing i suggest is to sell it and buy a Diezel VH4.

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by mikemillinator

Well they actually endorsed my band so it wasn't like I really REALLY wanted a krank, it was just convenient at the time. After quitting the band. I'm left with 2 krank rev 1's and 3 krankenstein cabs. time to sell sell sell.

I'll trade you an ac30 head for one of the revolutions.

[DeeDrive]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

I'm sorry but that will make the sound even thinner.

I gotta disagree with that. As long as your not cranking the gain on the amp or the tube screamer, you can get a pretty huge sound with a dynocomp. I use a modded dynocomp and a TS-808 with a fender tube amp, and it sounds HUGE.

But to the original poster, you need to get a new amp, one that sounds good already. No compressor or EQ is going to help when you hate the amp sound already.

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

I'm sorry but that will make the sound even thinner.

Also disagree.

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by SLy_drums

Use a Tube Screamer. Maxon OD-808 is killer for this. You'll have a more compressed and thicker tone for sure. Andy Sneap uses a lot of it.

+1. I got a maxon OD-820 and it really helped me get a better tone out of my 5150. I'm sure it'll do the same for a krank.,

[Flying_Dutchman]

I normally record metal guitars with the Krank Rev1 together with other amps (5150, Dual Rectifier, Marsahll jubilee....), sometimes with the Krank cab, sometimes with Mesa Vintage 30s. The best low-end and lower mid response is on the krank imao. Its not muddy, its a very fast response. I never had the impression that it sounded thin.

I normally use a Tube Screamer with Rhythm Guitars. I normally set it to Drive: left to middle left, tone: middle, Gain: Middle - middle right. It helps to get the bass frequencies under controll, less booming. But it doesnt make it thinner, imao, cause i normally dont need this rumbling frequencies in the mix. The mids scream more, i really like it on metal rhythm guitars. For solo stuff i normall take other boosters, cause the TB can get nasal.

Maybe the SM57 is the thin part. I normally set a SM57 to the amp, but just for some mid color. Sometime i dont use it. The low end and and the lower mids come from the Royer and the other frequencies normally from a condenser mic... in my setting.

It could also be a reason, that the ferquencies youre looking for arent at this place in the room. Maybe its better on other positions.

I didnt care for the Krank stuff, untill itested it. The harmony central story was a kind of strange. As far as i know some guys posted euphoric reviews. Krank was than banned from HC. Well, shit happens.
I like the Rev1. The clean channel is very good, imao. Its one of the best clean channels that ive heard from a guitar head. Its uncompressed and pure with a "bell like" Fender touch. The Drive channel is very defined and you can dial in many sounds, espaccially by the mid scoop.

Well, i hope to get the Überschall soon......

[chrispick]

Originally Posted by DeeDrive

I gotta disagree with that. As long as your not cranking the gain on the amp or the tube screamer, you can get a pretty huge sound with a dynocomp. I use a modded dynocomp and a TS-808 with a fender tube amp, and it sounds HUGE.

I disagree too. Short of getting a new amp -- which is what you should really do, ideally -- a Dynacomp and a TS are the way I'd suggest.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

I'm sorry but that will make the sound even thinner.

Oh, sorry. That's what I get for shooting my mouth off.

I like the idea of modeling, though. Sometimes when I just can't get the sound I'm craving I hook up my old Pod Pro in the preamp chain.....instant gratification.

See....there I go again.

[AlphaDingo]

I'm sorry, but if Krank is dark and brutal enough for the darkest and brutalist band of all time, Dethklok, it is dark and brutal indeed. The problem lies within you. Are you sure you are dark and brutal? Who told you this? Your mother? She may not be the best judge. Darkness and Brutality are the only things that will save your weak, thin, unbrutal sound.

[Mario-C.]

a good parametric eq in the fx loop can help a lot ...

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by Mario-C.

a good parametric eq in the fx loop can help a lot ...

THE most overlooked part of a good guitar signal chain.

Originally Posted by AlphaDingo

Darkness and Brutality are the only things that will save your weak, thin, unbrutal sound.

Also often overlooked.

[Long_Shaded_Eye]

Kylesa play on Krank ... see them live & the sound was huge.
Peraps it's just not your kind of sound , no ? (It's not a statement, I'm just trying to understand / help).

Did you try the cab with other head , and the head with other cab ?


Turn your knob in everyway & see if you can't find something you like...
/Nick.

[jeronimo]

I think we forgot something...
the guitar itself
what are you using?

[Matt Smith]

My money's on the cab. Those Krank cabs with Eminence speakers are just terrible for recording, in my experience. Have you tried recording the head through a cab with Vintage 30s?

Matt

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by DeeDrive

I gotta disagree with that. As long as your not cranking the gain on the amp or the tube screamer, you can get a pretty huge sound with a dynocomp. I use a modded dynocomp and a TS-808 with a fender tube amp, and it sounds HUGE

The DynaComp, at least an original one and not the horrible Dunlop reissues, can indeed sound great but it never will make a 'thin' sounding amp sound huge, no way.

The 'huge' part of your setup will probably be your playing and the tube amp, the Dynacomp will maybe smooth out the sound a bit (and add noise...)

[Protools Guy]

It starts with the guitar. What are you playing?

[mikemillinator]

Originally Posted by AlphaDingo

I'm sorry, but if Krank is dark and brutal enough for the darkest and brutalist band of all time, Dethklok, it is dark and brutal indeed. The problem lies within you. Are you sure you are dark and brutal? Who told you this? Your mother? She may not be the best judge. Darkness and Brutality are the only things that will save your weak, thin, unbrutal sound.

ummmm. no. dfegad



Anyways. Thanks everyone for your advice. I think I'm gonna play with some friends amps. See how I like them. The tube screamer is on it's way. I'm going to also give that a try. I think buying a new amp is inevitable though.

[gabehr]

More low-mids. EQ those suckers in if necessary. Learning what frequencies you need from your instruments to get the sound you want is crucial.

Bass tone also makes huge difference to guitar tone. Get a big fat bass tone and suddenly your guitar's got body to it.

Doubling the guitar on lower gain is always good.

Multiple mics on the same cab (sm57 combined with a MD421 for a brighter, crunchier tone IMO, or with a decent ribbon mic for a darker, heavier tone).

Really careful placement of the mics... FIND THE SWEET SPOT!

Record the amp and then record a second track through a modeler like a Pod or Guitar Rig and blend that with the "real" track.

Depending on your style of music you can even try running a synth through some distortion and blending that in. As long as it doesn't get too prominent you can really get a lot of power blending in that kind of signal.

There's a million things you can do to improve your tone.