getting a degree VS just doing it

[timothy]

Hello everyone!

I'm a 20-year old songwriter. I am currently in pre-production for my first EP. However, I have been contemplating whether or not I should go to music school (Berklee) and get a degree, instead of cutting a record and trying my luck as an indie musician.

There is just so much stuff I have been thinking about.

After all, how many successful musicians and songwriters studied their craft in College?

Would it be worth spending 100k+ on getting a degree? Would it drastically increase my chances at succeeding in this industry? Would it give me some kind of job security?

Or should I just invest my money into a well-produced EP?

I just get the feeling that a great EP, that sounds as good as anything you hear on radio (production and songwriting wise) would give me a better shot at putting me on the map, than a College degree. And it would be a lot cheaper and take less time.

I am just really confused. I hope some of the experienced folks on here could give me some advice. I just dont want to wake up at 40, wishing that I would have done things differently.


Best Regards
T

[Kiwiburger]

Those who can't do, teach.

IMO - the main reason to get a degree (in anything) is to convince an employer to choose you over other applicants. The degree may have nothing to do with the job in question. It just proves that you are capable of getting a degree.

So are you trying for a musical career as an artist, or looking for a day job that is vaguely related to music? Perhaps teaching?

I don't know of any great musicians or artists I respect who have got a degree in music. Except BB King, and he was given an honoury one. Either you got it, or you don't.

That said - the amount of knowledge you need in this industry is phenominal. You need to be learning several new things a day, every day, or give up now. If you have the money to burn and will enjoy doing the academic thing, go for it. But if you think you and your band(?) have a shot at the big time now, don't go all nerdy now - jump in and do it.

[The Byre]

It all depends on how good you are right now and what you want to achieve.

If you want to be a jobbing musician, then you had better be very, very good.

You could always study something completely different (e.g. electrical engineering or IT) and be a musician for fun.

Do not even think about studying music tech.

[patrox247]

Education is very important in improving ones self in general.However, I'm not sure if a degree will help you land a job. The industry is shrinking at an alarming rate, and the old studio system unfortunately seems to be a thing of the past.

[FFTT]

An education may not be key to your future as a musician, but the amount of technical knowledge required to produce music is somewhat overwhelming.
The more training you have, the better you'll be prepared to adjust your game plan
to what's happening in the industry.

If you can afford to go to school, GO!

The entertainment business is brutal, so absolutely make sure you have work skills
to fall back on.

Even with the finest education and superior skills as a musician, you're chances of
"making it" are up against an industry saturated with talent and other industry professionals simply trying to survive.

Play music because you love to play, but go to school and learn a viable work skill to help you survive for the next few decades.

The son of a very close friend of mine, just graduated with a computer science degree
specializing in network security.
He's deciding between two job offers at around $70K per year, one year out of college.

With that kind of income, he can buy all the gear he wants.

I'm not saying give up on your dreams, but rather to set yourself up
for a future that will provide you with the means to survive.

[RCM - Ronan]

There is no real way to tell. Most successful singer/songwriters did not go to college for it.

The upside to going to a place like Berklee is that you will learn a lot about things like arranging and get exposed to new ideas that can create life long opportunities for you, and it also a chance to meet a lot of people that may be important connections at some point.

The downside is that the degree does not guarantee you and kind of job when you get out, and will really not do that much to push along your career as an "artist". If you are really serious about being an artist, the great sounding EP is only a small part of it. You need to make the EP and then spend every spare minute of your life promoting and touring to support it. This is the really hard part. You need to wake up everyday and work 10 hours a day on the business side of promoting, and live really cheap, and get out and play gigs.

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that making the great recording is the "work", but the hard work starts after the recording is done.

[narcoman]

Listen the the Byre on this one - ive know he shares my opinion on this much asked question.

Music tech degree = easy rubbish designed to remove cash from your wallet and no use to the industry.


Its not as if the industry is or ever was crying out for talent and/or tech people. We have them in muchos amounts!

If you wanna do music, it isnt exactly rocket science - you can learn as much about contemporary music by listening and doing as being taught. Read some books, take piano lessons etc but above all - listen and do. And remember this : Nobody OWES you a a living. Its ALL up to you. As an above poster said, making the music is the fun bit. The success and selling it is the hard part. The term is music business. The product is music. The business is what makes money.... good luck.

[PoorGlory]

My opinion is that you should go to a 4 year college and get a degree in something usefu (engineering, business)l, all the while working on your music. Getting a good education and training in a field like those can only help you if you end up working in the record business. Plus you'll have something to fall back on if your shot in the dark (no offense, just truth) doesn't work out.

[zboy2854]

I myself attended Berklee for 2 years, and in my opinion a degree in music is completely useless unless you want to go into teaching, then you need one.

However, if your goal is not to become a teacher, then don't waste your time or money getting a music degree. I stayed at Berklee only until I had taken all the classes that interested me, which went for about 2 years. Then I left and started my career in the music biz and haven't looked back.

If your ultimate goal is to be a songwriter, then forget about a degree for sure. However, a place like Berklee could help you hone your writing skills, I know it did for me, particularly the harmony courses, so it could be worth going for a few semesters. Also, it doesn't mean you necessarily have to put off recording, it doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. It's never been cheaper these days to make a quality recording. And Boston is a great town to be an indie musician in. There's no reason you can't go to school AND make and release an indie EP and start gigging around town at the same time.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

My opinion is that you should go to a 4 year college and get a degree in something usefu (engineering, business)l, all the while working on your music. Getting a good education and training in a field like those can only help you if you end up working in the record business. Plus you'll have something to fall back on if your shot in the dark (no offense, just truth) doesn't work out.

True, but if you attend college you will most likely not have enough time to promote your music, and play gigs. Especially if you have to get a job to support yourself while attending college.

It's a tough situation. IMO it's EITHER college OR music. You cant study i.e. business, wait tables and meanwhile promote your music, write, record AND play shows. There's just not enough time. And if you can only devote 5-10 hours each week to your music, you will go nowhere.

[quietdrive]

BTW.. this thread is a great opportunity for everyone to define how they would make this happen, given that the OP wont attend college and go the DIY indie route.

How would YOU do the artist development in this case?

I suggest getting a simple job (waiter, customer service, etc), work there 6-8 hours a day, 5 days a week, to pay rent. Work less, if possible. If you can live with your parents, even better, but you definitely need to be close to a big city (250k people). Invest at least 4 hours per day into music, with 10 hours on the weekends. Weekly gigs are a must. Open mic nights, or supporting/headlining. Also try getting a weekly residence at a club. Play cover versions of popular songs if you need to in order to get the gig. Just try to gig as much as possible.

[Beermaster]

If imoroving your whole knowledge of MUSIC is what you want - By music I mean good old wholesome Harmony, Extended Harmony, Arranging, Aural training, Orhestration, History compositional techniques, analysisetc etc - Then its the best possible thing you can do as a writer performer. ( assuming you already are up to the entry level for the course you want to take )

I finished my degree at The Guild Hall School Of Music London back in 90 - I didn't learn any tech ( tho was one of the founders for getting it started at the school ) - I just wanted learn the hardcore musical stuff. Actually I think the best thing I got out of th course was how to listen and analize music.

Forget about any sort of course aimed at learning the tech side of things - these are not really going to give you anything that you couldn't have learned yourself - ( as I did )

As far as what it will give you after, well thats down to where you want to go and how much you want to go for it.

As for the twit who said 'Thoes who can't, teach' - All I can say is that to have a safety net where you can rely on paying the monthly rent is not to be sneered at. When I first graduated I taught Sax and composition to private paying pupils for about four years - this suplimented my income as a struggling writer and paid for all of my toys - which in turn built up the quality of my production to the point that I gradually phased out the teaching and eventually set up my own central London studio - thats was eleven years ago.

Learn the theory and it will open up doors to to places you would never have been able to get to. To survive as a media writer you need to be able to write in as many styles as possible - you also have to get your speed up so you can churn it out ! - Thats assuming writing for TV is an interest to you - either way learning at a degree level or beyond will advance not just your creative mind but your options too.

Lester

[Steffmo]

I've been doing this for 30 years, without a degree.

I also teach a seminar at a local college, as an adjunct, without a degree.

I tell all my student that most people in a position to hire in this industry could care less about a degree.

[joelpatterson]

Just do it.

[Beermaster]

True that nobody has ever asked me what my qualifications are but there again I know I wouldn't be able to score and record an Elgar sound-a-like in a day without the education.

If you have the education it gives you the option and if you do have some hard times getting work as a writer then you'll get more job options in teaching with w qualification.

If you don't you'll always be asking yourself 'What if...'

[petessound@hotm]

personally doing a recording arts degree did me the world of good, no one has asked me if i have got one but the knowledge i was able to gain (while not having to worry about making a living!) as proven to be invaluable.

degrees dont seam to be a popular option here. i wonder if this opinion comes from people that dont have one? (i dont mean to sound snobbish) are there any people out there that have studied for a degree and regreted it?

[Unclenny]

Work on your record......it sounds like you have already moved in that direction. Give it a year and see how it goes...how it feels, but don't totally disengage from the school idea. You can always change course if the record thing doesn't go forward.

You're young.....you still have time to see which way the river is flowing.

Oh, and BTW...you won't wake up wishing you did things differently until 50.

[theblue1]

If you're independently wealthy -- go ahead and do what you feel.


If, on the other hand, you're going to need to work and make money in order pay back the student loans, I would strongly urge you to consider putting your education money into a field where there will be actual work (and it pays more than $15 an hour).

A lot of youngsters have this dream: I'll get a big warehouse and buy all kinds of cool old gear and put together a work space that is so cool, I'll be beating back the customers.

But they don't realize the enormous overheads that can go into running even an off-books, gray zone business (you know, flying under that ol' zoning/licensing/etc radar -- and that ain't nearly as easy as a lot of folks have thought, in many areas).


There are a JILLION people who consider themselves "recording engineers" -- many of them with very expensive educational programs behind them and decades of student loans to pay off.

And now that they've reformed the US bankruptcy laws, your student loans can EASILY follow you to the grave...

I bolded that because it's going to wreck some people's lives. You need to really think about it.


FWIW, I went through two community college commercial arts/recording programs in the early 80s. (I overlapped them, anything for free studio time back then.) One was the fairly rigorous and organized pioneering program at Golden West College near Huntington Beach, CA, [which at the time it was started was reportedly the second academic recording program in the US, after U of Miami] and the other at the (then) disorganized, semi-chaotic but highly musically energized program at Long Beach City College (where I worked as a recording tech and synth lab assistant to help defray costs). City College was, arguably, a key factor in the development of the "LBC sound" in that era, as a wave of city kids drawn by the drum machine(s) and synths got their feet (in some cases a lot more than) wet for about $5 a unit. (Ah, the good ol' days. 12 years of Republican governors in Cali all but destroyed public ed in this state. And I'm a Republican; I can say that.)

And I would strongly recommend finding a good community college program (even if you have to travel -- they are SO not created equal) as a lower-cost alternative to the loan mill private schools.

[GYMusic]

Save your money, unless you're going to get a degree in civil engineering, the sciences, or math.

[Kiwiburger]

Get a plumbing certificate, and an electrical certificate, and observe builders, carpenters and painters as you go. Then you can make an absolute killing doing work that less skilled contractors can do. Buy houses, fix them up, flick them on. In a few years you will have the money and time to be able to build the studio of your dreams and it won't even matter if you make money out of it.

Or, go to school, and in a few years you will be massively in debt, with practically zero job opportunies.

Music is music. Money is money. What do you really want to make? If you really want money, forget music.

[gtrman100]

I went to Berklee(and graduated) in the late 70's. It was a great education, and musical experience that had absolutely no help in getting employed in the music business. Above the toilet paper dispensers in the bathrooms at Berklee, there was graffiti: Berklee diplomas- take one.

I moved back to L.A. after several years working in local studios, and couldn't find a studio job anywhere. I sent out sixty resumes, with my degree and years of studio experience. I finally had to settle working for a company(Everything Audio, rip) that built studios. With the contacts I made, I was able to develop relationships that ended in employment freelancing and eventually engineering major projects, etc.

In this business especially, it's who you know, as much as what you know!

Just realize, you have to have it in your blood, because the industry can be vicious and you have to be willing to sacrifice much to succeed.

[Bob Olhsson]

It's all about who knows what you know.

I'd pick a school based entirely on who you'll meet and develop relationships with.

NYU and USC would be my first choices.

[timothy]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

It's all about who knows what you know.

I'd pick a school based entirely on who you'll meet and develop relationships with.

NYU and USC would be my first choices.

The NYU "recorded music" program by Clive Davis seems pretty good. But I doubt I'd have a chance getting in, I didnt graduate with the best GPA, and NYU isnt really the easiest college to get into. Another school I also checked out was Musician's Insitute in LA. Seems to be more "real world-based".