melodyne sounding bad?

[overclock]

Hey Slutz,

I am pasting a forum post that i jsut left at the celemony forum, perhaps there is someone here that can help me out. Or maybe confirm that melodyne isn't all its cracked up to be?

here tis......




Hello Forum Folks!

I am a fairly new owner of the melodyne plug-in. For the most part I like it quite a bit. Here is my problem, I hope someone can tell me I am missing something ...

I took a session from an Pro Tools HD studio, opened the session at home using an MBox 2 and ProTools LE. I shut off audiosuite dither, and got to tuning vocals. In order to get the audio back out of ProTools, I muted everything besides the tuned track and bounced the output.

After returning the tuned vocals to the original engineer, he complained that they sounded different, and lacked presence. I went back to ProTools and put the original side by side the bounced, indeed the original sounded different. The waveforms look ver different upon zooming in. I tested my process a few ways, including bouncing one bar of audio where I had NOT done any tuning at all, same problem.

One thing I notice is that it is impossible to line the files up properly. If I bounce the melodyne output immediately after transferring, without adjusting any pitch at all, the waveform does not lineup. If I move the new file a few samples one way or another to line up the first peak, later in the file they are no longer lined up. Sometimes the original is behind, sometimes ahead.

I tested this several times, using ProTools, Logic, and every variation of relevant preferences.

Can anyone tell me that I am missing something and that melodyne is everything I thought it was gonna be?!?

- 13

[John Suitcase]

Well, I can't help you too much, I don't think.

I've used Melodyne Uno a bit, and while I think it's very powerful, it does change the sound, even on unedited notes.

The workaround that a lot of people use is to copy the track that you want to tune to a second track. Tune that one, then only use the notes that are offensive from the tuned track.

So, if everything on the vocal is great except the start of the third verse, you'd only use the tuned track there. Make sense?

I'm curious to hear what you find out. I figured it was just a quirk of their import/analysis algorithm.

[JMWS]

I was saying the same thing a long time ago, but nobody believed me or they are just ok with the sound losing it´s highs/presence. That´s also weird, ´cause this is the Gearslutz forum afterall and people are comparing the tiniest change in sound with ADDAs, DAWs and so on...

Well for me, this makes the program unuseful! dfegad

[D.A.S.]

Pitch-Tuning is heavy audio processing and there is a loss in highs with any program, be it Melodyne or Autotune. John's advice to tune only the notes that really need tuning is the best tradeoff between pitch & sound quality.
Melodyne is a great tool however, just use it sparingly or extremly for FX.

[JMWS]

Yeah, but the loss in Autotune is not nearly as bad as in Melodyne.

[dragonorchid]

The pitch correction tool in Adobe Audition is my preference over both Melodyne and Antares - and its cheaper to buy the whole Audition program (education version if your a student like me) than it is to buy those other plugins.

[Erik Lutkins]

Each time I've tried messing with Melodyne, I give-up again after about 10 minutes. It always sounds like it's doing way too much processing. Sounds "phasey" to me, even when only moving slightly.
I love the potential it offers, just not the sound.

[drumkideric]

I have used the Melodyne plug quite a bit. It will only sound phasey if the vocalist is off by around 2 whole steps. If the vocalist stays atleast close to the right notes, which they should be able to do or they shouldn't be singing, it will work great. Granted sometimes it does take quite a bit of messing with the modulation and pitch drift to get the best sound.

[Gear Tramp]

I notice you're using the Studio version and exporting the file out of PT and back in.

Is there any change in this problem for you when using the RTAS plugin?

I've never had any problems with timing.

[The MPCist]

This thread is pretty interesting... I've got AutoTune 5 and Melodyne running on my PT HD system and just recently had to 're tune' parts that were done with Melodyne because they just sounded weird when I got to the mixing stage. Somehow the sound had degraded by quite a bit -- even more than what AT does to audio. I had just recently bought Melodyne and wanted to replace AT with it since Melodyne seemed more flexible in terms of timing and pitch manipulation...

I was thinking of posting a question in regards to Melodyne's audio quality versus AutoTune to see what others were thinking...

I see I was not alone.

[overclock]

not sure if you're asking me, but i am using the plug version.
thanks all for your input. does anyone know fi there is a way to get the plug to tell me which notes I have moved?

i'd love to go back and bypass the plug when it's not tuning. but i've tuned 4 songs and didnt really keep track of which parts were altered the most. i guess i can always play the original along and listen for pitch drift. maybe i should just work with people that sing in tune. are they still out there?

- b

Originally Posted by Gear Tramp

I notice you're using the Studio version and exporting the file out of PT and back in.

Is there any change in this problem for you when using the RTAS plugin?

I've never had any problems with timing.

[mud5150]

Is everybody reffering to the plug in. I have meldyne studio and use the transfer vst to move the audio back and forth. I haven't used it extensively thus far and my singer has a dark voice but I haven't noticed any major quality issues. Except of course theprogram doesn't sync right. That is another issue though. I will do some better listening this week.

[John Suitcase]

I haven't really noticed the timing thing, but again, I usually only tune bad notes or parts where I want to change the melody.

I use Cubase SX and Melodyne Uno. When I find something that's bugging me, I'll cut the track so I just have the offensive part, then I'll 'bounce' it. Then I go into the Audio folder of the project and find that little bounced file, which is only the offending line or whatever. Open that in Melodyne, tune it, save it.

Then, when I reopen the Cubase Project, that little piece is tuned. If it sounds bad, I can still revert back to the original file, of course.

It's a bit kludgy compared to the plug-in, but I use it so rarely that I haven't felt the urge to try the plug.

I did use it the other day to tune entire bass parts, though. For some reason (probably bad intonation) this kid's bass was about a 1/4 step sharp, no matter what we tried. Melodyne helped a lot with that one...

[Slipperman]

We use both Melodyne(plug and standalone) and AT like madmen around here.

Both hammer the audio.

Sonics and timing.

Give up to get.

SM.

[mtstudios@charter]

Never used it, but if it is anything like Autotune the user must be minimal and tedious in the manual and graphical mode. The automatic mode is just not natural, you must move and draw words that might be sharp or flat. Maybe trying it mutiple times to find the right way or setting.


Blue Thumb Productions-Audio Production Facilities

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by drumkideric

I It will only sound phasey if the vocalist is off by around 2 whole steps.

If a vocalist is two whole steps out they need to buy a drum kit!!

[overclock]

I'm listening to tracks that are NOT pitch adjusted at all, just going thru the melodyne analysis/resynthesis. at most when tuning, i would only nudge toward the center of a pitch, unless going for a special FX thing. i definitely don't look to tune anything even as far as a half step away from where it started. that's not tuning, that's fixing wrong notes. ha ha. maybe if we can get some info from celemony about how the audio is analyzed, we can all have a better idea of how to optimize it before inputting into melodyne. but that might not be the kind of info they like to share.

- b

[ricfoxx]

I cant use it because of this reason. Just running a file thru it makes it sound weird to me. I will use it for other things but not for lead sounds.

[ericwall]

I've stated all this before.

Good to see I'm not crazy and that your ears is the only ones to trust after all.

Mostly use Melodyne for keychanges of allready good performances, wich it does good most of the times.

I get heavy artifacts trying to save bad vocalists.

/EW

[Dirty Halo]

Is Waves Tune any different?

-a

[drundall]

I've been using it as well. I'm trying to get up to speed on Melodyne, as a long time user of autotune, but I haven't noticed any major issues. Sometimes the tuning sounds a little wierd but I chalked that up to my unfamiliarity with the program and fine tuning stuff. Autotune can get a little strange sounding too. Both these programs work best on people who sing straight notes, which I don't get a lot of. When you have to go in a get surgical it gets wierd.

[j-uk]

Originally Posted by juicylime

If a vocalist is two whole steps out they need to buy a drum kit!!

What's a step? A whole note... a semi?

Being a note out ain't that much.......

Mettinks a lot of people around here look at the computer screen way to much.....

[AlexLakis]

I've been working with Melodyne extensively, both the studio and the plugin version.

Sometimes the file gets a little whack on the way in, blips here and there on some vocal turns and whatnot. As others have said, it's best to only import the portions that are out of tune. All pitch correction programs will be subject to a bit of weirdness and possible fidelity loss. It's funny people are talking about the high end with Melodyne, because I actually noticed that it takes some of the beef away from some singers. I'm talking just a tiiiny bit, not enough to negatively affect the song, but enough to notice when you're A/Bing while mixing. The lesser of two evils?

As far as the actual tuning goes, Melodyne blows everything else out of the water in my book. People who are having problems with the tuning sounding unnatural should try spending a little more time learning about the tools and using the program. It's very powerful and very precise.

As far as the plugin vs. the standalone, I use the standalone mostly because it sounds the notes while you're dragging them. I always do all tuning by hand. Most of the time, I'm not looking to get the note exactly in tune, I'm looking to make it sound more in-tune, but in a natural way. Also, exactly-in-tune isn't always in-tune, even if your song is exactly-in-tune...did that make any sense at all?

I tune a lot of stuff with Melodyne (not just voices, it works wonders on cellos and other non-fretted instruments,) and nobody has ever noticed, even other engineers after I point it out to them, and certainly nobody has ever said to me "Gee, that sounds auto-tuned" or "Hey, I noticed the overall fidelity of the vocal track in this song is slightly sub-par...did you run this thru an auto-tune plugin?"

Just my experiences.

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

As far as the plugin vs. the standalone, I use the standalone mostly because it sounds the notes while you're dragging them. I always do all tuning by hand. Most of the time, I'm not looking to get the note exactly in tune, I'm looking to make it sound more in-tune, but in a natural way. Also, exactly-in-tune isn't always in-tune, even if your song is exactly-in-tune...did that make any sense at all?

I also use the stand alone version and only 'tune' specific notes by hand. I would never just slap melodyne or autotune or similar across awhole vox track - unless I was looking for a specific effect.

Melodyne has been a brilliant tool and helped me on numerous occassions, but I believe the trick is to use it judiciously. ymmv.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Man, you guys are on crack. Melodyne RULES! Just like so many other things in audio, it's one tool of many that do a similar job. I have lots of those tools, but Melodyne gets used most by far. It just depends on your priorities. If extreme audio quality is my priority, I do the take over and over until it is right. I do that with my own band, but most paying bands can't afford that.

When I have a god awful singer in here, I can make him sound pretty good with Melodyne! Then he brings me more money to do it again like a drug! To me that an excellent trade off for a tiny bit of high end. But then again, I've never been a snob when it comes to extreme audio quality.

Pitch and timing is MUCH more important to me.

[obostic]

It definitely changes the sound and not in a good way. How I use it with singers are to make the pitch corrections then have the singer relearn the part or parts with the corrected pitch. This way I don't have to worry about Melodyne changing the sound on the actual recording.

It's great for working out harmonies as well. Also, if you can't hear the devastating results of Melodyne I wouldn't worry too much.

[CorkyTart]

Originally Posted by juicylime

If a vocalist is two whole steps out they need to buy a drum kit!!

And after they fail at that, switch to bass

[SergioS]

I never understood the great hype about melodyne. As for me, the thing is unusable. God forbid to use it on lead vox. It screws up the presence and sounds absolutely artificial. Maybe that is trendy today, I wouldn't know.tutt

[bobdaspit]

I've used Auto Tune and Waves Tune extensively and got into Melodyne about 6 mos ago (using the plugin w/ PTHD). Melodyne is absolutely killer. It doesn't seem to change the vocal as bad as the other two.

I'm actually starting to get requests from vocalists for these plugins (they all refer to any of the plugs as "Auto Tune"). Those guys and gals are the ones I refuse to use it on

[Rufuss Sewell]

Melodyne is like photoshop. It's easy to make something look really bad with photoshop. It takes talent to make something look incredible.

I'd venture to say that you Melodyne haters just aren't very good at using it.