Ribbon mics and guitar amps...

guittarzzan · 13th March 2004

Well, I spent a good deal of time the other day with a 57 and an AEA R84 ribbon mic trying to get a nice combination of the two coming through my monitors. I got what I wanted from the 57, but the r84 was giving me trouble. A few feet back from the cab and it just sounded too distant and ambiguous even blended with the 57. When moved in closer, I had a lot of phase issues going on. I'm scared to move the thing into the 1 foot range because I've read how delicate ribbon mics are etc.
FYi, I'm micing a VHT Pitbull clx 100 to a 4x12 w/ brand new v 30's. The amp is at about 50%.
Is it ok to get a ribbon mic in close on a loud amp like that without risking damage? Do I need to use a pop filter in front or does it matter?
Also, I'm interested in hearing how some of you have used ribbon mics on distorted guitar amps....distance, angle etc

thanks,
Steve

guittarzzan · 13th March 2004

Oh come on now....don't leave my squirrel nuts a hangin. Doesn't anyone have any ribbon mic advice fer me? I'm in the semi noob category and don't want to wreck my ribbon mic due to stupidity.

thanks in advance,
Steve

aardvark · 13th March 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by guittarzzan
Oh come on now....don't leave my squirrel nuts a hangin.
Steve

I do not own said ribbon but I stick my DX77D's in front of cabs a fair bit. I also use them on trumpets and 'bones with no spl issues. At one foot you would have to be very close to stupid to blow a ribbon on your 84. To be safe ask Ray or Wes at their shop and I am sure they will tell you it can take it...within most reasonable apps. C'mon man...fire it up and go...blown ribbons cost way less than almost any other mic fix. He

e

e

Cheers,
Aardvark

Marshall Simmons · 13th March 2004

you will have no prob right up on the grill with the r84

NathanEldred · 13th March 2004

Move that sucker in close, don't worry about it. If you are paranoid, use a pop filter (Stedman will sonically stay out of the way). It's the wind, not the spl from my experience that stretches the ribbon. The backside of the R84 is supposed to be more durable as well, more screening I believe. I use mine in conjunction with a small diaphragm condenser (R84 with Josephson e22s is my preference). Both capsules coincident, usually angled halfway between dead center and the outer edge of the cone. Because the R84 is facing the amp with it's back side, the polarity must be reversed 180 degrees to be phase coherent. Good luck.

toledo3 · 13th March 2004

Does anyody have somewhere to post a clips.... I can share a clip of some close miked guitar AEA R84 stuff, and some other R84 samples...

I wasn't too reticent to try close miking b/c even more fragile ribons can handle electric guitar. I would warn to be careful of crackly cords or potentiometers... maye a pop filter just for your sanity. All the same, within 5 min of trying the thing out I had it 4 inches from the grill, without a pop filter.

Nathan, if you see this, I am going to get back to you asap.

toolstudio · 13th March 2004

Hi,

I use our R84s all the time on guitar amp, right in front and sometimes up to 20 inches away.
The normal loud guitar sound isn't a problem. The wind which could be caused when the guitarplayer unplugged the guitar while not bypass the speaker, that could cause demage. But I guess they are more robust than you expect.

You could also try to damp the backside with something. That could cause some phase effect and roomy sound, depending on the room.

wolfgang

toolhouse studios, germany

toledo3 · 13th March 2004

And also,

Try to visualize using the cancelation of the two mics on purpose. You can use it to cancel out lows, or scoop mids pretty easily.

Fletcher · 13th March 2004

You can jam an R-84 into the grill without fear... just try to keep it a foot or two away from kik drums or you'll be getting that new ribbon installed.

As for "phasing issues"... you might want to check out a Littlelabs "IBP" or "IBP Jr." when using two mics like that... the "Jr." will cost you a bit less, but doesn't have the DI or "reamp" capabilities of the regular IBP... but both will allow you to set the mics where they sound good and take care of the midrange wash often associated with using two mics on a source.

Best of luck.

guittarzzan · 13th March 2004

thanks guys, I'll give 'er another shot. I really liked what I got from the AEA on a cleaner sound so I'm hoping it will be as complimentary on the heavier sounds once I get it figured out.

gracias,
Steve

frist44 · 13th March 2004

toledo-I would love to hear some clips. I tried to pm you but your box was full. I can host them.

Brandon

toledo3 · 13th March 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by frist44
toledo-I would love to hear some clips. I tried to pm you but your box was full. I can host them.

Brandon

I am going to clear out my pm box in a second...

13th March 2004	#1
guittarzzan Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, Or Posts: 1,047 Thread Starter	Ribbon mics and guitar amps... Well, I spent a good deal of time the other day with a 57 and an AEA R84 ribbon mic trying to get a nice combination of the two coming through my monitors. I got what I wanted from the 57, but the r84 was giving me trouble. A few feet back from the cab and it just sounded too distant and ambiguous even blended with the 57. When moved in closer, I had a lot of phase issues going on. I'm scared to move the thing into the 1 foot range because I've read how delicate ribbon mics are etc. FYi, I'm micing a VHT Pitbull clx 100 to a 4x12 w/ brand new v 30's. The amp is at about 50%. Is it ok to get a ribbon mic in close on a loud amp like that without risking damage? Do I need to use a pop filter in front or does it matter? Also, I'm interested in hearing how some of you have used ribbon mics on distorted guitar amps....distance, angle etc thanks, Steve

13th March 2004	#5
NathanEldred Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: West Coast Central Florida Posts: 7,242	Move that sucker in close, don't worry about it. If you are paranoid, use a pop filter (Stedman will sonically stay out of the way). It's the wind, not the spl from my experience that stretches the ribbon. The backside of the R84 is supposed to be more durable as well, more screening I believe. I use mine in conjunction with a small diaphragm condenser (R84 with Josephson e22s is my preference). Both capsules coincident, usually angled halfway between dead center and the outer edge of the cone. Because the R84 is facing the amp with it's back side, the polarity must be reversed 180 degrees to be phase coherent. Good luck. __________________ Nathan Eldred Visit Atlas Pro Audio

13th March 2004	#9
Fletcher member no 666 Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 10,110	You can jam an R-84 into the grill without fear... just try to keep it a foot or two away from kik drums or you'll be getting that new ribbon installed. As for "phasing issues"... you might want to check out a Littlelabs "IBP" or "IBP Jr." when using two mics like that... the "Jr." will cost you a bit less, but doesn't have the DI or "reamp" capabilities of the regular IBP... but both will allow you to set the mics where they sound good and take care of the midrange wash often associated with using two mics on a source. Best of luck. __________________ CN Fletcher Professional Affiliations: R/E/P Professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums - serious hobbyists welcome SoundPure.com mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

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13th March 2004	#4
Marshall Simmons Gear addict Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 391	you will have no prob right up on the grill with the r84

13th March 2004	#6
toledo3 Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,304	Does anyody have somewhere to post a clips.... I can share a clip of some close miked guitar AEA R84 stuff, and some other R84 samples... I wasn't too reticent to try close miking b/c even more fragile ribons can handle electric guitar. I would warn to be careful of crackly cords or potentiometers... maye a pop filter just for your sanity. All the same, within 5 min of trying the thing out I had it 4 inches from the grill, without a pop filter. Nathan, if you see this, I am going to get back to you asap.

13th March 2004	#7
toolstudio Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 821	Hi, I use our R84s all the time on guitar amp, right in front and sometimes up to 20 inches away. The normal loud guitar sound isn't a problem. The wind which could be caused when the guitarplayer unplugged the guitar while not bypass the speaker, that could cause demage. But I guess they are more robust than you expect. You could also try to damp the backside with something. That could cause some phase effect and roomy sound, depending on the room. wolfgang toolhouse studios, germany

13th March 2004	#11
frist44 Gear addict Joined: Oct 2003 Location: West Chester, PA Posts: 491	toledo-I would love to hear some clips. I tried to pm you but your box was full. I can host them. Brandon