Close Mic'd Guitar Cabs: Not Always What you Want

[cdog]

Lately I've been diggin the clarity gained by backing the mic the hell off the speaker grille, and playing around with all sorts of different patterned mics.

In most rock mixes you want the guitar to be full sounding, but not too bassy, as the sub 150hz "woof" of a 12" speaker can detract from the low end clarity of the mix.

So instead of eq-ing the hell out of the low end, I've just been backing the mic up. That 57 may look weird a foot away from the speaker, but the mic takes on a new personality when its not being choked by proximity effect.... also tried a small diaghram omni condenser, a TL II and a Royer ribbon mic, to interesting effect.

Sure, you get a little more room sound in there, I see that as a potential benefit. I try to keep my ratio of real to artificial ambience as high as possible.

If you start with a little amp like a Champ (lower wattage, smaller speaker) you don't have as much of this close mic clarity issue, even if you're blasting out a molten lava stream of Big Muff induced fuzz.

Unfortunately there's not always hours to play with guitars and pedals and amps and mics and positioning... when you need to get some recording done...

[Jack Pettit]

I'm not a big fan of 57's on the grill.
I do use a lot of smaller amps, blackface deluxe, univalve,
10 watt class A's, and I'm not way into distortion.
I like a LDC back a few feet and up off axis toward my ears.
Often it sounds more accurate to me, more like how it sounds just standing there playing the guitar.

[Jay Kahrs]

I've never really been into the sound of a SM57 jammed into the grill either. Actually, I really realized how much I hated when I got the Royer demo disc and listened to the Steve Albini tracks.

I hardly ever put the mic right on top of the speaker anymore unless it's a hard rock/metal project where wash is bad and maximum impact is good. For everything else I try to get the mic at least 4-5" away from the speaker. Hell, I did a whole album last year where no mics were closer then a foot and a half to a guitar amp at any point in time. And yes, there was an SM57 in that mix.

[Jim Williams]

Ted Templeton popularized the '57 on the Marshall grillcloth back in the '70's with the first Van Halen album. Took on a life of it's own...

Eddie's working on the new record and now uses a pair of modified AKG 414 B-ULS condensors. He no longer puts them on the grill but rather mics the cab back about 2 feet in stereo. The speaker doesn't create what we call "the sound" until you get back about 2 feet as it takes that distance for all the air to mix. Just stick your ear up in there and check that for yourself, but make sure you turn the amp down a bit first!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Jay Kahrs]

Interesting on a lot of fronts. Do you have any idea what kind of stereo pattern Ed's using? Is it just a spaced pair in the room or maybe MS?

[Jim Williams]

What I was told the mics are spaced pairs, one on each cabinet. Of course that could have all changed in time as everyone experiments with stuff.

As to Ted T. and the 57's, that was the record that really brought out the guitar amp miking trick in the trades. Until then, folks used lots of different stuff, after Van Halen, it was standardized.
It was a sad day when my 546 died, I still have it if anyone has a head for it!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[el cochino]

Originally posted by Jim Williams ...It was a sad day when my 546 died, I still have it if anyone has a head for it!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades [/B]

Sorry to hear about your loss. If you want to, you can send it to me and I'll burry it on the Vienna Central Cemetary, right next to Ludwig von Beethoven's or Johannes Brahms' grave.

[camdie]

Just this weekend I experimented with a 2" kids walkie talkie speaker glued to the inside of a Cigar box. Connected this to a Signature 284 output. Placed a SM57 mic. within 1/2inch from the speaker. Wow, Killer sound.

[Nutmeg II.]

AKG 414TLII in figure8 with the back of the mic facing the cab.
Fat, detail, omph AND a bit of space too.
Add a gobo infront of the cab to vari the room bleed.

[toledo3]

Originally posted by loudist
Hey Tiltrite,

Since you can't read or cognate or are just being a jerk,

Templeton was a fan of an already popular technique.
If you want to play semantics, Templeton didn't set up and position the mics, so technically, he wasn't as responsible for the Van Halen guitar sound as you might think.
Could it have been Eddie, his guitar, and his 'modified' Marshall in the tiny bathroom at Amigo studios?

Huh?

Truley... some people.

I know that it the same kind of setup that was used on the Iron Butterfly Metamorphosis album (68 or 69?)- Shure mic, right up on the grill.

I had always thought that then Jimmy Page picked that up from them, along with the using a practice amp for leads, etc. (they were the Iron Butterfly opening act).

Actually, I'm sure their were tons of artists using close mic shure for their guitars....certainly alot of Allman Brothers and Clapton sounds that way.

I think loudist is saying that Van Halen were very much on the tail end of the development of miking techniques like that.

As an aside.....It's funny.... my father was one of the people involved with the signing of Van Halen, and they were very much signed b/c of David Lee Roth and his stage antics... not so much b/c of the guitar or drumming.


Back to subject, I have been liking the R84, 545, and beta 52 on guitar cab lately.

[cdog]

tutt Guys if you can't contribute without squabbling in a most non-professional manner, please refrain from posting.

People are allowed to be right.

People are allowed to be wrong.

People are allowed to have their opinions.

Take it to private mail.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by cdog
tutt Guys if you can't contribute without squabbling in a most non-professional manner, please refrain from posting.

People are allowed to be right.

People are allowed to be wrong.

People are allowed to have their opinions.

Take it to private mail.

Dude.

Chill.

That's my gig.



Everyone else continue.

Thankyouverymuch.

[PaRaNoId]

I find that like many of you, close miking will get great body and chug for heavier guitar passages. When it come to anything other than that I normally stay away from the whole 57 on the grill crap. As weird as it may sound, for my reggae stuff on guitar, a small condenser AKG 430 @ 2-3ft away normally gives me the most realistic sound. I have also had some success with distant miking (less than 10ft) the amp (cranked!) with a LDC. Who would have thought a mic i bought specifically for hats and overheads would get tons of guitar use? That's why I love recording/engineering...Unpredictable as hell, and there is always room for improvement.

[Jay Kahrs]

I think it was Jimmy Page who said distance makes depth. But if you get too much distance the tones can get washy.

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by loudist
I think that Ediie Kramer said that as well.
I wonder who heard it from whom?

Knowing EK, i'm sure he ripped it off JP... just like he's still taking credit for JH's creative vision