Pod vs. Plugs for neighbor friendly guitar recording

[astorian]

P.S. ... noticed a similar thread here but can't figure out how to delete this post. Sorry for the screwup.

Hello folks. I am looking to put together a rig for recording placeholder electric guitar. I live in an apartment building, and basically need to record silently with headphones. I have a number of great players who I work with, and I typically send stuff out to have them re-record the parts ... with better gear, and better skills.

I'm running Logic on a Apple quad with 5GB and an MBox.

Pod vs. Plugs. Will I be able to monitor plugs with passable latency, or should I opt for something that will be a good approximation that I can monitor pre DAW? Anyone go the plug route and regret it? Is the more expensive Pod (XT?) worth the extra dough for my use? Any advice would be appreciated. Any recommendations on good plugs?

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Thanks
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John

[kittonian]

Why not use the SPL Transducer with a real amp where there's no noise at all that will disturb your neighbors and record tracks that you can actually use in the real mix while you're still excited about the track in question? These puppies are selling like hotcakes and they sound incredible from everything I've heard so far.

[denne]

I do like the AC30 of NI's guitar combos - for temp guitars it's good enough. guitar combos is cheap like the budgie. I have a POD 2.0 but never touched it again.

Don't blow too much cash for guitartracks you won't use anyway. Get a nice mic!

[astorian]

kittonian, the SPL Transducer looks interesting. You're right that sometimes the temp guitars end up having more life than the final version. I guess for the going cost of a POD and/or plugs, that the $1K SPL Transducer isn't such a bad deal. They have a nice approach ... stick to modeling well what is easier to model (room impulses, speaker sims, etc), and let people use their existing gear where it excels. Thanks for the tip.

[Gear Tramp]

The GearBox bundle will give you the GearBox plugins, the GearBox standalone application, and a TonePort.

The TonePort w/ GearBox standalone will allow you to monitor with no latency from the hardware buffer, and feels much better than trying to play through a plugin. When the tracks are recorded, you can mute/delete the TonePort track and use the GearBox plugin on the DI track.

The plugin sounds real nice, tenfold better than a POD. Also, you can use that DI track to reamp if you find a place or time when you can.

[Zorran]

ive tried alot of direct methods including pods and plugs, and the best one for my money is a palmer speaker emulator. i have a pdi 03 which you can pick up for $300 - 400 new, which isnt a whole lot more than a pod, but definately sounds ALOT better. pods need alot of post eq imho, but the palmer is just that much closer, especially since youve got your head running into it. its a load box too, so you dont need a cab. try it out before you make your decision

zorran

[Thrice_Removed]

I personally do not like the sound of most of the Gearbox models at all. Same goes for most modelling software. However, the few modeled tones I have heard and really liked were PODXT's with a nice poweramp in front (typically a VHT). These sounded so good it made me want to get a POD - and I dislike modelling most of the time. Just some thoughts.

[themaidsroom]

no pods
no plugs

http://www.emerysound.com/Microbaby.html

[bitman]

Pod.

[Kiwiburger]

Don't blow good money on digital guitar sounds - hardware or software. Digital sucks for guitar tone - it's ok for some effects.

I like analog pedals, even with my tube amps, and there is a huge selection of tones for all occasions. They can act as a good front end for getting a DI guitar tone into the box. If you choose a pedal you like, the distortion won't suffer from digital artifacts, and will generally be a lot better.

A inline convolution reverb with a "pipeline" impulse of a good guitar cab can impart the flavour of a real amp, cab, room mic, preamp etc. It can be surprisingly convincing, and waay better than Pod 2.0 etc.

PC VST users can grap Voxengo Boogex freeware which comes with a bunch of good cabinet impulses, and can also load impulses from NoiseVault etc. The Simulanalog stuff is good too - especially when combined with convolution.

If find that analog stompboxes or preamps (especially with real tubes) just slaughter digital fizz boxes.

[MadSkillzMan]

how big is the amp? id make efforts to make an isolation box to put the amp in with a mic.

[astorian]

Fender Twin ... not huge, but man the thought of building an iso box in my tiny New York apartment is daunting. What kind of results can you get with a box? I just read about some companies that sell a single speaker in a box ... this might be more doable.

Here are some links. For you guys in the know, this is probably old hat, but just in case ...

Demeter

Randall

On a gut level this makes sense. Record the real thing, in case there is magic in the take. Also record a clean signal for re-amping in case the take is great (a big if, with my playing) and another tone is desired.

These might not be that hard to build.

[u b k]

get a few good pedals and plug 'em into a roland micro cube. stick a 57 somewhere in front of the face, turn it up as loud as a typical tv, hit record, and smile at the results.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[astorian]

Originally Posted by u b k

get a few good pedals and plug 'em into a roland micro cube. stick a 57 somewhere in front of the face, turn it up as loud as a typical tv, hit record, and smile at the results.
.

Hah! Good point. Though for some reason trying to nail a take ... playing the same song 12 times ... seems to have a different effect than Star Wars cranked on fancy surround system making the floor shake. Double standard I tell ya !

[MadSkillzMan]

How good iwll it yield? pretty darn good

www.myspace.com/dreadnacht (listen to the end of heartache)

the amp recorded was a 8" ibanez practice amp. It was as loud as maybe a tv. i had wool blankets draiped over it.

Trick is i used an LDC mic, rather a dynamic. This let me collect more sound in a smaller space.

With your twin, tube IIRC? the best sound is when its at its loudest, so you'd want an iso box + a hotplate.

lol ive mastered recording at low volumes. Got the DIY Ekit running into bfd, and the funny part is, i can actually get pretty loud here without many complaints.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by u b k

get a few good pedals and plug 'em into a roland micro cube. stick a 57 somewhere in front of the face, turn it up as loud as a typical tv, hit record, and smile at the results.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

For real? Keeper tracks?

[MadSkillzMan]

out of curiosity which pedals? ive NEVER found a line in that i enjoyed the sound of. id love to be proven wrong.

Dont get me started on guitar rig/amplitube lol

[Kiwiburger]

I'm loving my Radial Tonebones (Classic & Hot British). They have a real tube which helps - although probably a starved plate design. I don't really care how they do it, since they sound good. Eric Johnson raves about them, fwiw.

Analogman does some nice pedals and mods. I have a TS9 with the 808 mod that's a sweet overdrive - although I have a cheap chinese Belcat overdrive that can sound sweeter.

I like my Electroharmonix stuff - classic Big Muff for hippy trippy fuzz freakouts, or Metal Muff for more insane stuff. It's definately a different flavour that doesn't take itself too seriously.

There are lots of analog pedals I don't like - I especially don't like pedals that can't decay naturally on the tails of notes. Some have a nasty dropout problems, or lots of noise.

The little Epiphone Valve Junior is a great little amp for low volume stuff. I just bought the head, and I find it responds really well to pedals.

A Joe Meek trick is to place your cab on it's back on the floor. Mount your mic stand over it, and then throw blankets over the whole deal. An 8" or 10" speaker on a piece of plywood can work just as well as a cab.

Reamping is worth thinking about too. There is no reason to miss an inspired take because of the neighbours, or because you have unwanted noise in the room. Record a dry pickup signal, and then you can reamp later at higher volume with everyone out of the room.

Little battery amps are great tools - you can get genuine feedback assisted sustain at low volume - high gain doesn't necessarily mean high volume. Battery power is immune from AC hum. (Your guitar may not be, but battery amps will never add hum or groundloops - sometimes useful).

Otherwise, build a room inside a room. An iso box you can stand in.

[Gear Tramp]

The guy just wants scratch tracks! He's not trying to get keeper tracks at all. He probably wouldn't even ever be able to, living in an apartment. Even a 5-15 watt tube amp is going to be loud in an apartment complex.

Our boy needs "silent" - "headphones" recording for scratch tracks.

The Radial Tonebones are a good idea, too. Radial makes good stuff.

[Resonant Alien]

Had another response, then saw you are only doing scratch tracks. For that, go with the Pod. You won't have to worry about latency or the plug eating into your CPU.

If you want to do keeper tracks, use a real amp with a Palmer, a Motherload, or the SPL transducer.

[Deadmeat]

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

no pods
no plugs

the Microbaby... ultra-lo power, ultra BIG tone! 1-2 watts

Dam - that thing looks sweet! And the prices aren't that bad

[darkwater]

The Palmer PDI-03 has changed my whole universe.

[chrisj]

If this-

http://www.airwindows.com/m/FreePlugs.mp3

-works for you, you can have it for free (as the file name suggests)

I do a whole line of speaker emulator plugins that haven't seen much publicity. Latency is a couple-three samples. It's at least as good as a Palmer box- I've heard Palmer boxes and there's no speaker involvement at all. With mine it's simulated speaker breakup.

You needn't do the whole thing with Airwindows free plugs, either- I did this

http://www.airwindows.com/m/BossDeluxeDemo.mp3

with the new Boss Fender Deluxe pedal direct into my API, and this

http://www.airwindows.com/m/CabVintage30.mp3

with a Metal Zone direct into the API. (dry/wet in the mp3s, always)

Think about it, some of this stuff is freebies, and if you are running Logic you're good to go for running Airwindows plugs

[gregohb]

Palmer makes several boxes - some with and some without speaker emulation. Are you saying that even the ones WITH sound as if WITHOUT?

[GYang]

With nice amp, Palmer would do the trick, with more bucks SPL provides more sound and versatility.

[shuld]

I just bought a Carr Mercury amp!!! Love it!! It has 8, 6, 2 and 1 watts. Just put a few blankets over it. Sounds awesome. It's not a cheap amp. But well worth it. 1,800 bucks.
Check it out!!!

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by kittonian

Why not use the SPL Transducer with a real amp where there's no noise at all that will disturb your neighbors and record tracks that you can actually use in the real mix while you're still excited about the track in question? These puppies are selling like hotcakes and they sound incredible from everything I've heard so far.

Yeah, the Transducer gives the real sound in a analog way, and and you can use it in the middle of the night. However, I think the SPL Transducers are hard to find (in the US). It, like the Palmer are made in Germany, and with the Euro soaring against the dollar, their prices will be soaring too.

[blackcom]

I find amps set reeealy low to sound better then software. I'd rather set my amp to 0.5 and mic it...might not sound that "tubey"...but....

Pods can sound cool with a tubescreamer and guitars tuned very low. Requires a good player, though...

[Matthew Presley]

Anyone here use one of the Demeter Iso Cabs?

[PRobb]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Amp Farm. It does a pretty good job for what it is. And if you love the performance, you have the clean DIed signal and can reamp later.