BFD vs DFH question?

[shanabit]

Hey guys, I have BFD right now Im thinking about getting one of two options:

1. BFD XFL, BFD Deluxe Collection, Andy Johns-Classic Drums

or

2. DKF Superior and DFH Custom & Vintage

Your thoughts?

[dirren]

Absolutely love Custom & Vintage and how you can control the bleed betw mics and the function to render audiofiles by bouncing when your MIDI arrangements are done. Excellent sounds in the Vintage section.



/Matt

[el cochino]

I'd go for option #2 as well

[Oroz]

I own DFHS and it's great. I'm doing entire productions with it and having great results. I haven't used BFD but I think that DFHS is hard to beat.

Be careful to not confuse the original DFH (like it says in the headline) with the DFHS, two different beasts.

[jaysunice]

What is your primary purpose? Replacement or complete composition? Or something else?

Also, it may be worth waiting until the update for BFD comes out...apparently it's supposed to be a rather extensive update/upgrade...

[AlexLakis]

What kind of music are you going to be using it for?

I started with DFHS, then moved to BFD. Been using BFD for a couple of years now, and I just got the Andy Johns expansion yesterday.

The AJ expansion is amazing. Blows DFHS out of the water in my opinion. Scary good.

I'd go with BFD. It even has Drumagog support now, I believe! I might skip XFL, tho. It's good, but it can't touch the Andy Johns stuff.

[Gear Tramp]

Wow, the BFD love has really dropped off the map lately.

If you're doing any kind of metal, DKFHS will better serve you.

If you're doing pop/rock or other styles, BFD will get you there.

I prefer the interface of BFD 20x to DKFHS. And yes... get the Andy Johns xpansion.

[Farout]

I am an owner of both BFD (no expansion packs), and DFHS. I think the answer to your question will be subjective. You are probably going to find a million different opinions.
I can tell you that there are a lot of reasons that I choose DFHS over BFD: sound quality is very hard ot beat (among manhy other reasons). BFD is good, but since you already own BFD, it seems that DFHS would be the best route to go because you can use the two together! Toontrack is producing many cool new products.... and there are some very cool things for ToonTrack on the horizon! But never mind that, just know that you can use both DFHS & BFD together.
IMHO - Custom & Vintage is one of the better sounding products on the market.
Thanks

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by jaysunice

What is your primary purpose? Replacement or complete composition? Or something else?

Also, it may be worth waiting until the update for BFD comes out...apparently it's supposed to be a rather extensive update/upgrade...

Ill be doing complete composition, POP/Rock. I have all the R&B covered with my synths/Sound Cards/Drum Machines. I was wondering about the BFD update coming as well?

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by Gear Tramp

If you're doing any kind of metal, DKFHS will better serve you.

I don't agree with that. What I've been doing isn't metal, is more pop/rock and also a little more pop stuff and had great result with DFHS. Maybe you're confused with the Original DFH which indeed was Metal oriented. DFHS (Superior) is on another league. Great sample quality (for example rooms recorded with Royer mics and stuff like that). Recently we did a ballad with a lot of ghost notes on snare, DFHS nail it awesomely, even a friend of mine who is a drummer (has been for 20+ years) commented that it sounded great.

[severe]

Originally Posted by shanabit

Ill be doing complete composition, POP/Rock. I have all the R&B covered with my synths/Sound Cards/Drum Machines...

In that case, BFD may be more suitable. However, I've never used BFD, but having researched a lot before purchasing Custom & Vintage I got the impression that BFD was better suited for Pop/Rock.

Things change, so I'm not sure anymore. There are more sample packages available now. I can tell you that Custom & Vintage is awesome for an R&B or earlier (70's ish mabye?) Rock sound. Although it has been said that with a bit of tweaking you can get C&V sounding quite modern too. I mean, ya know... they're drums.

Happy to have possibly confused you further, sorry.

Either way, you can't go too wrong.

[Gear Tramp]

Originally Posted by Oroz

I don't agree with that. What I've been doing isn't metal, is more pop/rock and also a little more pop stuff and had great result with DFHS. Maybe you're confused with the Original DFH which indeed was Metal oriented. DFHS (Superior) is on another league. Great sample quality (for example rooms recorded with Royer mics and stuff like that). Recently we did a ballad with a lot of ghost notes on snare, DFHS nail it awesomely, even a friend of mine who is a drummer (has been for 20+ years) commented that it sounded great.

I never said DFHS couldn't do rock/pop, only that if the poster WAS doing metal, DFHS would be a better choice.

I wouldn't say that BFD can't do metal, but I've heard much better metal productions using DFHS as opposed to BFD. But I've heard amazing pop/rock productions with BFD.

Can you post a clip of that production? I don't think I've heard DFHS used in a pop/rock context. I'd like to hear how it handles the ghost notes.

[AlexLakis]

Didn't the drummer for Meshuggah play on DFHS?

I remember the hi hats on DFHS being better than BFD at the time, but the hats on the AJ BFD expansion are really good, so they're probably comparable now. If you've got something like a Korg padKONTROL, you can adjust the hi hat tension with the touch pad, which is really cool.

[Mondo]

i hated bfd. i love addictive drums.

[Methlab]

I finally heard the Andy Johns. BFD plus Andy Johns library is the ultimate. I have not heard anything remotely close. It smokes XFL. I have not messed with DKFH Custom and Vintage too much, but I have heard it in songs, and I think Andy John's samples crush about everything. They are all you need with BFD..I would say the DW kick on the original BFD is a magical drum, but you could almost delete everything but the AJ's library and have incredible drums.

[peeder]

So far, right out of the box, dfhS has maps for my Roland TD-12... I think I have to tweak them a bit but that might be tractable...So that gets my vote right there. It models the VH-11 hihat pedal. The guy from BFD said at AES BFD does NOT do so. For me that's bye BFD.

Note that the demos on the sites are often quite heavily processed. What you'll get straight from the module is more or less raw drum sounds as if you had recorded them. That's great if you like to do your own processing, but older-generation drum modules gave you a pre-processed sound you might have been expecting.

They ought to release the DAW files for the actual demos done, whether we have the plugins or not, that would be truth in advertising.

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by Gear Tramp

I never said DFHS couldn't do rock/pop, only that if the poster WAS doing metal, DFHS would be a better choice.

I wouldn't say that BFD can't do metal, but I've heard much better metal productions using DFHS as opposed to BFD. But I've heard amazing pop/rock productions with BFD.

Can you post a clip of that production? I don't think I've heard DFHS used in a pop/rock context. I'd like to hear how it handles the ghost notes.

Sorry my bad, It's just that I have the impression that sometimes people categorize DFHS with metal and I think that's not fair, no way, at least not from my point of view. Tomas Haake (from Meshuggah) did record on DFHS but the as far as I know Morgan Agren is the main drummer. Also nobody has metioned about the Percussion and Cocktail part of DFHS which are amazing! Everything you need from tambourines, triangles, bongos, congas, cajon, etc., etc. (played by Per Mikaelsson)

Here's a sample of the song we were talking about. (It's in spanish)

Sample Cronica.mp3

[Gear Tramp]

Originally Posted by Oroz

Sorry my bad, I just that I have the impression that sometimes people categorize DFHS with metal and I think that's not fair, no way, at least not from my point of view. Tomas Haake (from Meshuggah) recorded in DFHS indeed but the as far as I know Morgan Agren is the main drummer. Also nobody has metioned about the Percussion and Cocktail part of DFHS which are amazing! Everything you need from tambourines, triangles, bongos, congas, cajon, etc., etc. (played by Per Mikaelsson)

Here's a sample of the song we were talking about. (It's in spanish)

Attachment 35719

No worries! It sounds great!

What kit was used for this?

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by Gear Tramp

No worries! It sounds great!

What kit was used for this?

Thank you. I don't remember exactly which one since I always change snares, kicks and practically everything until I find what better fits the song or what I'm looking for but I'll get back to you guys with the exact kit as soon as I can.

[sahiaman]

BFD is raw samples. The way drums sound while you are in the tracking room. What can you do with raw samples? Anything. I run BFD for every drum I need. Hip Hop, Rock, Jazz, Electronic. And I process it accordingly. Though its time consuming you can do pretty much do it all.

The XFL pack is great, its recorded in the same room as the BFD original library, so the peices fit together great.

The Delux is one of my favorites for the snare sounds. The kicks are thumpy, and open with a lot of low end. I use them by layering other kicks with quick attacks, and build a really nice sounding kicks.

As for the Andy Johns pack for the BFD, it has a bit of eq processing that Andy Johns did. And drums are recorded very well. Its probably my go to drums for rock based music. However, when you layer it with other kicks, you can have some wicked sounds.

A great method for using the BFD drums is routing all the ambient channels to a couple faders and bring the room sounds in to the center, it really works like a charm. Sometimes I process the drums using SPL Transient Designer, when I really want some new sounds.

I've used Addictive drums, DFHS, and Battery. I always opt for BFD. Though, I like taking my time and processing the drums to my liking. If you don't like to process it that much, then go for the Andy Johns collection. Though, you might want to wait, as a new Platinum Samples library is coming out for BFD in June, the Joe Barresi - Evil Drums.

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by sahiaman

A great method for using the BFD drums is routing all the ambient channels to a couple faders and bring the room sounds in to the center
[/I]

When you say this...what do u mean by ambient channels? Can you get into this more?

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Methlab

When you say this...what do u mean by ambient channels? Can you get into this more?

I think he means using BFD Groups, and bussing the Overheads, Room, and/or PZM mic tracks, then panning each channel of those ambient stereo busses center.

BFD Groups can be great. For control over each track in your DAW, use BFD All or Ultra. For composing and quick writing, I'll just use BFD Stereo.

[aryschien]

Andy Johns is the best.

DFHS, DFHS V&C and BFD Deluxe Collection tie as second.

I never use the basic BFD sound. I wish that I didn't have to buy the BFD to use the Andy Johns drum samples.

[sahiaman]

Originally Posted by Methlab

When you say this...what do u mean by ambient channels? Can you get into this more?

Yes, taking all the OH, Room, and PZM, and bussing them into their own group. And then moving them into the center a bit. If you want, and have access to the SPL Transient Designer, you can throw it on this channel for "kicking it up a notch".

[Methlab]

interesting..I have yet to use the BFD group channels. I always use Ultra. I use the "bleed to primary direct" function also.

I usually just treat each room channel and the OHs. Do you do all the rerouting in BFD then? And after that you pan the room center in BFD itself, or in your DAW? I'd love to learn how to do this because I am getting bored with how I treat the room mics. Do you also have each room in it's own stereo channel also?

I have used Dominion on a mono PZM channel before though.

[sahiaman]

Well you can route in BFD if you want, or you can use your DAW.

I tend to use the DAW. First I load up BFD all, or ultra, then I route the OH, RM, and PZMs, to a couple faders and bring in the room. At times I think the room sound is too huge, so I just bring the orignal RM fader down a bit. Sometimes the snare has too much room if I process it with the SPL, and then I mute the room mike inside BFD under the snare in the options tab.

BFD is so extreemly configurable that you can do anything inside it. Play around with the Options setting, and the Advanced midi notes settings. If you take the high hat tigger notes(by default under the kick one notes), and edit the velocity, decay, pitch, and other settings, and change them all to a shank hit, you can program the hat so you can get the warble sound that you would get in a real drum high hat. Think of the sound of "rock n roll" opening by led zep.

Lets say you want a tamborine and don't want to shell out for the XFL kit just for the tamb. Load up the lucite cymbol in an availble slot on the second section, turn the pitch of the cymbol up all the way, and bring down the trim so you can just hear it. Then you can link it to the high hat, and suddenly you have a tamb sound coming in everytime you hit the high hats. Or you can trigger them individually.

Don't think in terms of how you would normally use the program, your imagination can be your greatest friend here. Layer kicks together. Take the DW kick, dampen it, and layer it with the Ludwig kick in ultra. Group the kick2in and kick2out to its own fader, and put a compressor in there and play around with the sound.

If you want to learn BFD inside and out, get yourself this tutorial: Future Technology Presents its call thed 1.5 x-rayted tutorial.

[fastlane]

I use BFD Delux, just though I'd post a sample for you, might help you choose.

By the way, I was doing another more rocker tune today and really got the drums kick ass, much bigger than this songs, it suited the song better!

If i get the new song fully mixed tomorrow I'll post a sample.

http://www.fastlanestudio.net/web%20audio/MP3's/Stephen%20Brett%20-%20finding%20a%20way%20mp3.mp3

[tcause]

I am a pretty happy BFD user... I think as the product evolves and the competing products start really providing better value and a more flexible feature set, BFD will need to lift its game.

So... As a starting point, the base product is not complete without XFL. It just makes it useable.

I see a couple of other products emerging that make it easier to achieve a "produced" sound within the product by providing access to filtering compression (both product specific and plugins) and reverb by sound. Achieving this using groups etc within your DAW is hard from a repeatable set up point of view. So hoping to see this addressed.

I also have jazz and funk and find it enormously expressive for my jazz blues soul funk inclined self.

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by fastlane

I use BFD Delux, just though I'd post a sample for you, might help you choose.

By the way, I was doing another more rocker tune today and really got the drums kick ass, much bigger than this songs, it suited the song better!

If i get the new song fully mixed tomorrow I'll post a sample.

http://www.fastlanestudio.net/web%20...0way%20mp3.mp3

Thanks for that man, cool tune BTW. Drums sound good

[lordmiguel]

Andy Johns is recorded really well and I use it a lot since i got it. The sound can be old school on a lot of (think 70's rock, Zeppelin) it but you can blend some in for a modern sound. The overall quality seems the best to me. Plus you can layer with the DW kits etc from the regular BFD.

Since you already use BFD i would recommend this.

Using the BFD interface is just so much more intuitive to me than DFHS. C&V is great too, but the DFHS interface is the drawback.

Bouncing down the DFHS i can actually mix it better with the comped room channel etc but bouncing is a PITA sometimes too.

I believe its so difficult to not have BFD and DFHS and all expansions, there has been no magic bullet for me and sometimes multing and replacing one sound with another in a different program is what is called for. You need a lot of resources for that, though.

good luck